Let's talk about LABELS. I'm researching for my own bands and need advice!

[Dandelium]

Hi guys!!

As some of you may already know, my band just released the first demo EP in digital format only (yet). We have some contacts to promote the music but we don't know anybody from signed bands (well, to be honest a friend band of mine but their label is the last thing I'd want...).

I'd be interested to know how good can a label deal be, the major drawbacks you guys with label have found along your career, and to summarize, a bit of advice that could be useful for other users of this board too.

I'd love to especially invite to the talk some producers and people signed to major labels too, just to put their point of view about it.

Also, and with this I could end my request, if someone is happy with their label deals, I'd love to know the labels name.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge!!

[JayB]

Just wanted to throw in my two cents real quick - first , I really like the EP ! Secondly , bands really do not need labels for much these days. It seems like they can do more harm than good. Just look at Nine Inch Nails - there a plenty of other bands like them that do self releases.

[digitaldeath]

Originally Posted by JayB

Secondly , bands really do not need labels for much these days. It seems like they can do more harm than good. Just look at Nine Inch Nails - there a plenty of other bands like them that do self releases.

Yes, but you're forgetting that many of these bands established themselves through traditional methods first.

[coreysMonster]

JayB, don't forget that the most important thing a label can give you is exposure and connections, which are very hard to establish on your own. Labels still serve perposes, and as long as you be careful, a record deal can only benefit you (unless you sign bad deals)

[Dalinkwent48@aim.com]

Rule 1- Get a lawyer

[Necromancer197666]

Originally Posted by Dalinkwent48@aim.com

Rule 1- Get a lawyer

Every old person has told me this. Probably says something

[Dalinkwent48@aim.com]

Its not always the case...but labels are a business...and there always trying to get the best product for the cheapest price...so consult with a lawyer about contractual issues and all that so that when you go into negotiations you know what to expect and also how to benefit most from said contract.

[slashvanyoung]

Make a really professional looking presskit and send it out to labels.

When (if) they come back at your enquiries, get a lawyer. But not any lawyer, somebody who is specified in this area. Don't underestimate the importance of a good lawyer.

[Force666]

Just want to note. If you're going to end up paying an entertainment lawyer either way, you'll have much better luck if you just have said lawyer shop it around for you.

[Jevil]

I can only talk about those I've been in, spanish.
We had luck, all of them contacted us without sending them anything.


AVISPA: They listened to our demo in 2000 (I'm talking about VALHALLA).Not really joined, we had 10 hours meeting, but we coulnd't reach an agreement cause they wanted we to sing in spanish or teach our singer english.
I still have the contract. It was abusive. All rights for them, 8% of each copy sold for us, they had the righ to control and do whatever they want but they were very powerful in promotion and had bands like Medina Azahara, Saratoga... We refused singing in spanish even though we could have met fame, sex and rock and roll!, hahaha.

ARISE: We were phoned by Arise too. Not bad, not good. They promised to take us Italy to record an album, don't remember which studios... Vision Divine or Labyrinth's producer... bla bla bla. We had a better option which was...

ZERO/ANFECA: Label from Tipo Music Stores. We signed cause we sold many copies of our demo in their stores, they gave us 6.000 € to do the album, Finnvox mastering, artwork by Derek Riggs, advertisements in mags, interviews... all went quite well. By that time also Baron Rojo was in there. But Zero finally went into hiphop and nu metal so we got put aside and we left. I don't know wether they exist or not.
Visto lo visto, fue nuestra mejor discográfica.


GOIMUSIC: I don't know if it is still alive or has another name... We signed cause they were into metal. Were also distributors of Spinefarm in Spain.
They did nothing and we ended in a struggle, with lawyers and that kind of shit.

SANTO GRIAL: This was only distribution, the label is us. They work great with metal products.


My advice, beware of the labels. You can also contact distributors in Spain, Europe and be yourself yout label. We did that with our demo and we sold 2000 copies, and 500 copies in Japan due to Tokyo Heaven Disc interest... those were good days, haha.

[Skinny Viking]

Originally Posted by Jevil

I can only talk about those I've been in, spanish.
We had luck, all of them contacted us without sending them anything.


AVISPA: They listened to our demo in 2000 (I'm talking about VALHALLA).Not really joined, we had 10 hours meeting, but we coulnd't reach an agreement cause they wanted we to sing in spanish or teach our singer english.
I still have the contract. It was abusive. All rights for them, 8% of each copy sold for us, they had the righ to control and do whatever they want but they were very powerful in promotion and had bands like Medina Azahara, Saratoga... We refused singing in spanish even though we could have met fame, sex and rock and roll!, hahaha.

You should see the offer we got from LMP (Rhapsody's former label) several years back...

you think AVISPA was abusive?

LMP basically wanted us (me) to not only sign an exclusivity contract (which could have been negotiated) but they also wanted something like 80% of our publishing rights, get this, for fucking PERPETUITY. Essentially, copyright time period.... something like my lifetime + 50 years or something. Thats just the tip of the iceberg with those guys though

Oh yeah, don't ever sign over your publishing rights unless its for an exact specified period of time that you can deal with.

[slashvanyoung]

It took Alice In Chains a whole year after completing "Facelift" to finally sign a contract even though they had more offers than they could count.

They took almost all the money they made from shows to get the best legal representation they could get.

Instead of being pushed into a contract or falling for the charming but deceiving call of the major labels, they took the necessary time and used the level of interest and the fact they financed the album on their own as their negotiating basis to get the best possible contract according to their wishes and capabilities.

As a result, their career might have been in the loop for a year, but in the end, it paid off: They made comparatively good money given their sale figures and now they own the publishing rights for ALL their songs.

Why that story? Well, the industry ain't the same it was twenty years ago, but some of the mechanisms are. It's a good example to not jump on the first offer, signing right away, even if it comes from a "big" label like RR, NB, MB, CM etc.

Good friends of ours, very young dudes, got a worldwide Metal Blade offer when Deathcore suddenly exploded. Needless to say, they signed right away, without any contractual revision whatsoever. I won't go into details, but the band almost combusted under the schedule MB was laying on them.

[Dandelium]

Hi!

Thanks for the replies, seems I'll have to spend a shitload in lawyers if I get the chance to sign to any label from what I've read...

[smy1]

Dandelium: not a shitload, maybe 1000 Euros. It'll be worth it though.

Personal note regarding your promo picture: make your goodlooking singer stand up in the front of the picture and put the rest of you (very average looking, sorry!) guys in the background. Nobody cares about you and while she and the 2nd dude from the left have the looks for this kind of music, the rest of you don't. Not trying to be offensive here, but that was the first thing that came into my mind when I saw the picture.

[Metaltastic]

I think Erik is a handsome devil And this all sounds great Erik, though the guitars are lower than I remember you ever mixing them in the past, which I'm not too crazy about... (or maybe the synths are louder, little of both I guess)

EDIT: Whoops, this isn't the thread about your EP - oh well

[arv_foh]

Don't just get any lawyer--get a music lawyer. One that has established relationships with record labels, most record labels will not accept unsolicited material

Also, establish your band as an LLC, I don't know if that's absolutely necessary but probably a good idea if you're gonna start making some $$

[26]

Originally Posted by slashvanyoung

Don't underestimate the importance of a good lawyer.

I once was told by a friend, what kind of people bands take on tour with them (friends, family etc.) and got quite amused by the fact that Rush seem to tour with a lawyer permanently.
So yes, seems to be important.......

[plague_rider]

I know its a cartoon, but you need someone like Charles Offdensen... someone who knows the business side, is great with both numbers and legal matters...

[Dandelium]

I actually googled Charles Offdensen looking for a lawyer website

[slashvanyoung]

Originally Posted by 26

I once was told by a friend, what kind of people bands take on tour with them (friends, family etc.) and got quite amused by the fact that Rush seem to tour with a lawyer permanently.
So yes, seems to be important.......

Haha, Andy, really?

That's prog-rock entourage right there! No bodyguards, no hoes, no dealers... but lawyers.

[Jevil]

Originally Posted by Skinny Viking

You should see the offer we got from LMP (Rhapsody's former label) several years back...

you think AVISPA was abusive?

LMP basically wanted us (me) to not only sign an exclusivity contract (which could have been negotiated) but they also wanted something like 80% of our publishing rights, get this, for fucking PERPETUITY. Essentially, copyright time period.... something like my lifetime + 50 years or something. Thats just the tip of the iceberg with those guys though

Oh yeah, don't ever sign over your publishing rights unless its for an exact specified period of time that you can deal with.

Yes, they fucking suck! Rights usually are 100 years, that is the maximum.
Anyway it's nice to be in the target of labels like LMP. Congrats!
No wonder you got an offer from them your music is very good... I dig that kind of metal.

[Skinny Viking]

Originally Posted by Jevil

Yes, they fucking suck! Rights usually are 100 years, that is the maximum.
Anyway it's nice to be in the target of labels like LMP. Congrats!
No wonder you got an offer from them your music is very good... I dig that kind of metal.

Gracias man!

Glad you dig it

[26]

Originally Posted by slashvanyoung

That's prog-rock entourage right there! No bodyguards, no hoes, no dealers... but lawyers.

Exactly my thought when I heard this, hr hr......

BTW, maybe it helps to know that founding a label is really no big deal (at least here in Germany).
This might not bring big sales (without professional promotion and everything) but it might get you in a better starting position (as bigger labels often deal with smaller ones rather than just a band........at least this was my impression).

[Ermz]

Do entertainment lawyers actually shop material around? I thought they'd just be legal solicitors that you could throw contracts at and get things proofed. If they take on a more active 'managerial' role then I guess that's something quite worth investing in.

[mts1979]

My band was in talks with an indie label a few months ago. Nice guys, and I'm sure they meant well, but their contract was greedy to the point of actually violating U.S. law. Not to mention wanting rights to our likeness and merchandise -- which is the only way we'd make any money in the first place.

More recently, we got an offer from a label that not only offered no advance and no recording budget, but wanted US to pay THEM $500. Huh?

Entertainment lawyers are important. They saved our asses and will save yours too. It's worth it.