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Old May 25th, 2012, 01:50 AM   #1 (permalink)
Colin Davis
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New Vile album - critique it

Been a while since I've been around this board. Been doing mainly mastering but this is the last album I mixed - my own band, Vile, released earlier this year.

Here are some 320 KBPS mp3s. Its melodic death metal.

Thick and slow intro, gets fast halfway in.
http://imperialmastering.com/files/vile-shadow-work.mp3

Fast all the way through.
http://imperialmastering.com/files/vile-rise.mp3

Cheers!

Colin
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Old May 25th, 2012, 02:32 AM   #2 (permalink)
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nice to see you again Colin, long time no see, sounds pretty cool, less brutal when before, more melodic but
in a sick way that I really like, reminds me a bit of Morbid Angel, didn't knew it was released-do you know
where I could get it in Germany? It's the only Vile album I don't own
Sounds like you took a step forward in the direction where you started with "the new age of chaos"-loving
Depopulate, but this seems very promising, original and refreshing, not just songwriting wise, soundwise, too.
I am sure that there are many guys around here that aren't into that guitar sound, but I dig it-sounds a bit
like a unboosted Recto (still using your Ibanez 7 string with DiMarzio Evolutions?).

Would be cool to see you live again (only once, Bassbox in Höfingen on the Violating Europe tour, I was like
16 back then ).
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Old May 25th, 2012, 03:25 AM   #3 (permalink)
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sounds pretty brutal but still very clean. I really like it. and guitars are absolutely fine with me, pretty old school!
only thing I would do differently is maybe more "smack" on the snare?

the second song is superb, especially the guitarwork!!!
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Old May 25th, 2012, 03:29 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Hey we will be there in September! Just one show in Germany - Berlin probably. If you find my band profile on facebook you'll know. facebook.com/vilemetal

Yeah, you know I just write what I like to hear myself. It just goes were it goes. Each album is different because I get bored of doing the same thing for too long.

Hammerheart records in NL is the European label so you can get it from them.

Yep, Ibanez 7 and both Recto and 5150 mixed. Been using the same set up of Peavey and Mesa for all this time, only difference is how its recorded and put in the mix.

Colin
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Old May 25th, 2012, 03:41 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Damn, Berlin is about 650 kilometres away from me, that would be a bit much for a show.
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Old May 27th, 2012, 04:19 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Good to hear from you and Vile, Colin !

I feel a huge old-school/Morbid Angel vibe here too, and i like it.

To me, in all the Vile stuff you have put out, the sound/songwriting/production has evolved towards something more proggy/old-school/melodic throughout the years, but in terms of production i always feel that :

-the guitars sound great, and they're at the center of the production (one can tell you're a guitar player)
-but the whole mix often sound like an unfinished mix of a good preproduction or something... (as in : very good guitar tone with some raw miked or e-kit drums with some raw bass)
-in the past i've found your drums tone very thin/clicky/annoying/e-kit-like, but in this one i like it... It sounds very natural and alongside those guitars and the songwriting it reminds me a lot of Morbid Angel's Covenant and Blessed Are The Sick. But to me this new mix still sounds like it could be improved (not sure how, bit i still get this "unfinished mixing" feeling here), cuz' now it sounds "good" but not "awesome" yet (but i like the tones).

My 2 cents

By the way, you and Mark Lewis (producer) look like twins !!!

p.s : the Vile first two albums are among my favourite death metal albums of all time (the first one, i bought as a birthday present for a friend back then !)

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Old May 27th, 2012, 10:42 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Blessed are the Sick is a standard for me. Dont know what to say because the first 2 Vile albums are clearly worse productions - muddier, sloppier, less clarity. Last two are cleaner and clearer. People often associate their fondness for an album with their definition of production quality. That's a bias. My objective is clarity and always has been. Reason the first two albums were not that clear is because I didnt know how to make them clear at that time (and lack of tools). Now I do. I think Andy is like this too. Clarity is the number one goal. After that, the music has to be good.

I dont like the tom sound on the new one though, it was a recording decision with a story behind it, wish I could have changed it, couldn't though. Thats my one real issue. But then again, I dont like the tom sound for any of the 4 Vile albums. How do you get a good tom sound when playing that fast? You cant unless you are willing to punch in the toms separately and patch them together. For this one, I used triggers on mesh heads and used Superior Drummer for samples. Was an experiment that ultimately failed, but luckily, its really only engineers that have complained.

The snare sound is Andy's snare mixed with a lot of snare in OHs. Kick is a mix of samples. Guitar tone is reamped 5150 and Recto. Bass is Fender Precision active p/u direct. Rest is tons of punch ins.

Cheers,

Colin
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Old May 28th, 2012, 04:56 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Hi Colin and thanks for all the details !

When i said the first Vile albums are my favourite, it doesn't have anything to do with the production (which i think is decent and fits the vibe of those albums but could be way better, and i agree those records sound worse than the next ones you did) but with the songs, that talked to me a lot at the time i discovered the band and still do to this day. And actually, my fav. tracks on the first album are the live bonusses, which i think sound way better and more enjoyable to listen to that the studio versions (which sound a bit unexciting and soft in comparison).
I like the fact that you took a new direction after that, but i never really got into it, but that's just me, and maybe someday i'll grow to love it !

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Old May 28th, 2012, 05:06 AM   #9 (permalink)
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This track is one of my favourite death metal tracks of all time Colin, really :


This song drives me insane, sounds so vicious, brutal, groovy and catchy !!! Reminds me of Monstrosity, Cannibal Corpse, and early Severe Torture.
I'm not saying the old Vile was better and the new stuff is bad. I think the evolution makes sense and i'm glad you didn't rehash the old stuff. It's just i got a huge crush for the old Vile back then, and for some reason never got into the new stuff much, but maybe that will change !

The part at 2"32 makes me wanna grow my hair long, and instantly become Corpsegrinder's twin brother or something.

EDIT : the guitar tone tutorial video you did back then is still awesome and a big reference to this day

EDIT 2 : on this new stuff, can you give more details about the guitar tone (guitar pups, guitar wood, clean boost, cab, speakers, miking, post-eq...), besides the amps you used ?

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Old May 28th, 2012, 01:52 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Stench of the Deceased is one of my favorite death metal albums of ALL TIME. I cannot tell you how many times I've listened to this record and while it's not PERFECT sounding, the SONGS are what make a record what it is.

I must agree with Djabthrash, though; it sounds like a really well recorded pre-production track, but that is just sincerely IMHO because I respect what you've done with Vile SO MUCH.

But I do hear room for improvement with this mix, I must be totally honest.
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Old May 28th, 2012, 04:27 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Everyone always likes a band's first album... except the band themselves... I do like that first album actually, good songs, production is pretty clear. Style is 90's.. But tones are only ok. DM5 kick sound, scratchy guitar, no bass presence, cardboard toms, and on and on. Mixed on a Mackie board That youtube song above is a live board tape from the Maritime Hall. Just a standard board tape that they used to make for every band that played. Performance was ok...

Also folks, I am someone with a lot of different interests in life and always changing tastes. I physically cannot force myself to write an album that sounds like the prior one. It has to be totally different and you hear that with this band. I put them out because after they are done, they need to get out there, but I write them for me. Reason I do want people to like them though is because when we play live, I'd like people to show up.

In regards to the asked for details for the new album - you're hearing a Japanese Ibanez 7 with Dimarzio Evolution pickups, a Peavey cab with V30s. Miking is 2 57s. Cant remember placement but nothing out of the ordinary, and EQ and stuff is basic - what works in the mix. I can tell you that I reamped the guitar performances 2 times per side. One with each amp (Mesa/Peavey) and there are 2 mics per amp so you have 4 guitar channels per side. Each feeds a L or R guitar buss which gets light compression and eq.

Colin

ps, I went and looked and there are like 3 eqs and the Raxx compressor used for the guitar busses. I am using URS A series and N series and Sony Oxford. Ox is for a shelf that starts cutting down after 6 k and steeply after 10 k. The other 2 eqs are just a touch of this or that to taste. The Raxx is limiting by 1 db. I am commonly using a few plug ins on some channels that each add a little bit because each has a certain tone to it that I want to have. Yes there is a limit to how many plug ins I will use and 4 per channel is probably it most of the time and they have to be high quality. Cheers.
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Old May 28th, 2012, 04:39 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Thanks a lot for the details Colin !

I respect the "i write music for myself and my songwriting evolves a lot through time, but i'd really like to get people into it and have an audience" a lot. This is how it should be IMO.
If you come play over here (Paris, France) i'm pretty sure i'm gonna see you, just because i like the old stuff and that even if i didn't get into the new stuff on cd, i might get sold while experiencing it live (happens a lot with me, especially for more intricate/ambient/proggy/hypnotic/intellectual music).

Please keep us posted with some new stuff when it's ready to be listened to !
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Old May 28th, 2012, 05:04 PM   #13 (permalink)
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All that new stuff is out. Album is out on Hammerheart in Europe, called Metamorphosis. See youtube for cheap listening....
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Old May 28th, 2012, 05:20 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
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All that new stuff is out. Album is out on Hammerheart in Europe, called Metamorphosis. See youtube for cheap listening....
Ok gonna check this out.

Just my 2 cents, but if you can do it and are ok with it (and hammerheart too), you should put this album on bandcamp for free streaming in good quality and 10$ high quality file download.
That's the best to get people to check out your stuff, and buy it IMO (they can still buy the actual physical cd if they want to).
Always bought cds but not as much in the past years, and always checked out what was out (via legit streaming/mp3s/youtube and unlegit also) and always thought i would never pay for a file, until recently where i realized bandcamp is one of the best way to go and purchased my first digital albums last week there.

If i want to check out something, i will always do it, the legit way if i can (bandcamp being one) without buying the cd, and the unlegit way if i can't.
If i really like the stuff, i will either buy the cd at the merch booth or online, or pay for the high quality mp3s (which i was listening to in the first place anyway, be it through bandcamp or album previews on soundcloud or pirated mp3s) through bandcamp, which is like giving the money straight to the artist for something i'm already listening to.
This and also the legit streaming stuff like spotify/deezer/etc.

To me, full-album streaming in high quality on bandcamp and on spotify/deezer/etc is the best way for you to get a wider audience.

EDIT : if i have a choice between listening to band A which has a high quality streaming bandcamp page, and band B which only has its stuff in shitty quality on youtube, i will go check out band A over B.

I think it's still handy to have at least some tracks on youtube and in decent quality, cuz' that's the easiest and fastest way to find songs nowadays IMO (and easy to share through facebook/forums/etc). On the other hand, uploading shitty quality soundfiles on youtube is counterproductive IMO.

EDIT 2 : Youtube is good for checking out/putting out a particular song, but sucks when you wanna check out a full release (cuz' you rarely have the track order/playlist on youtube, etc), and that's why bandcamp/spotify/deezer is good when it comes to listening to full releases in good conditions (playlist + high quality + artist payment (through per streaming on spotify/deezer, and through mp3/file purchase on bandcamp).

EDIT 3 : example : just checked out one shitty quality song off your new album on youtube (not uploaded on the official Vile channel), and another decent quality (but not that great) song you uploaded through your channel, and now i don't feel like checking out all the other songs cuz' the quality might go from shitty to just decent, and i want to listen to the whole thing to be able to get into it, and i don't even know what song i already checked out and what song is next, etc...
BUT I'd check out the whole album for sure if it was on bandcamp or spotify/deezer, give it a couple of spins, and maybe get into it, and finally listen to it more on deezer/spotify (-> money for you per streaming) or buy the files on bandcamp (-> money for you), or buying the cd (-> money for you, but less than through deezer/spotify and bandcamp i think).

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Old May 28th, 2012, 05:39 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Hey Colin, Bob here. How ya been man, last time I saw you was '06 in nyc.
I see you got Mike for vox on this one too. Anyway nice work

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin Davis View Post
Been a while since I've been around this board. Been doing mainly mastering but this is the last album I mixed - my own band, Vile, released earlier this year.

Here are some 320 KBPS mp3s. Its melodic death metal.

Thick and slow intro, gets fast halfway in.
http://imperialmastering.com/files/vile-shadow-work.mp3

Fast all the way through.
http://imperialmastering.com/files/vile-rise.mp3

Cheers!

Colin
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Old May 28th, 2012, 05:52 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Points well taken on the digital formats. I will check out bandcamp and ask the label too. Good points.

Hey there Bob. Got you in the credits for keys on the song "I Am Alive" (also on Youtube hehe). You did the keys on the demo version which I re-used.

Colin
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Old May 28th, 2012, 08:50 PM   #17 (permalink)
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That's right, I remember that!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin Davis View Post
Points well taken on the digital formats. I will check out bandcamp and ask the label too. Good points.

Hey there Bob. Got you in the credits for keys on the song "I Am Alive" (also on Youtube hehe). You did the keys on the demo version which I re-used.

Colin
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Old May 29th, 2012, 11:03 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Welcome back dude. Sounds good.
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Old May 29th, 2012, 11:35 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Hey Colin, you actually mastered my old band's first album many years ago and directed me to come here to learn stuff. Probably one of the best pieces of advice I ever got! Good to see you lurking around here after so many years. The solo on the "Rise" track. Awesome. Freakin. Awesome.
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Old May 30th, 2012, 09:29 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Thanks man. Glad the Sneap forum has helped! Helped me too. That solo is J.J.'s and I agree, its really nice.

Colin
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Old June 2nd, 2012, 04:08 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Really reminds me of Formulas... sounds good.

Oh, and just so you now, the album is on bandcamp!

http://willowtip.bandcamp.com/album/metamorphosis
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Old June 2nd, 2012, 07:55 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Fantastic sound.But from a musical point of view depopulate is the best Vile album
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