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Old May 3rd, 2010, 09:51 AM   #1 (permalink)
ahjteam
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Bugera made a Mesa clone!

triple rectifier
http://www.bugera-amps.com/EN/Products/TRIREC.aspx

mark ??
http://www.bugera-amps.com/EN/Products/MAGICIAN.aspx
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Old May 3rd, 2010, 10:13 AM   #2 (permalink)
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varipower, a very interesting feature. Hope we hear some tones soon.
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Old May 3rd, 2010, 11:26 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Hmm they are treading on dangerous ground there, I wonder how they are getting around Randall Smith's 7000 patents. He won't be happy at all.
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Old May 3rd, 2010, 11:41 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I'm still not a Bugera fan at all. Everyone of my friends who have bought one of there amps it has busted on them on tour's. i guess my area just always get's the bad batch of these amp's haha
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Old May 3rd, 2010, 11:51 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Uhh, this is old news dude
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Old May 3rd, 2010, 11:53 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I'm still not a Bugera fan at all. Everyone of my friends who have bought one of there amps it has busted on them on tour's. i guess my area just always get's the bad batch of these amp's haha
The pre 2009 Bugeras are noted for their poor reliability. I don't recall the exact reason why off the top of my head, but it's been fixed since 2009.
I got my 333XL head in March and couldn't be happier.
It fucking SLAYS, not just for the price, but period.
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Old May 3rd, 2010, 11:56 AM   #7 (permalink)
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I agree, the patent lawsuit must be imminent. Of course, Behringer loves to infringe on patents as their core business model.

I would laugh, but Mesa/Boogie is a stand-up company that never sold out. They deserve every bit of success they've had in this business. Seriously if it hasn't been said before, fuck Behringer!!

UPDATE: I've written Mesa/Boogie to notify them about this, just in case they haven't noticed. This bullshit has to stop.
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Old May 3rd, 2010, 12:24 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I'm sure Boogie's lawyers are already spitting on Behringer's lawn.
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Old May 3rd, 2010, 12:39 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I agree, the patent lawsuit must be imminent. Of course, Behringer loves to infringe on patents as their core business model.

I would laugh, but Mesa/Boogie is a stand-up company that never sold out. They deserve every bit of success they've had in this business. Seriously if it hasn't been said before, fuck Behringer!!

UPDATE: I've written Mesa/Boogie to notify them about this, just in case they haven't noticed. This bullshit has to stop.
Dude, you believe those patents? Do you know what's even claimed with them? And how many of them have been common knowledge and in earlier publications (like Radio Designer's Handbook)...following that logic every other guitar amplifier would be denied. So, cheek in tongue, example: Luckily preamps are not patentable, maybe they'd sue Mike Soldano himself who's circuit they and everyone else ripped.
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Old May 3rd, 2010, 12:53 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Mikko Vainiala View Post
Dude, you believe those patents? Do you know what's even claimed with them? And how many of them have been common knowledge and in earlier publications (like Radio Designer's Handbook)...following that logic every other guitar amplifier would be denied. So, cheek in tongue, example: Luckily preamps are not patentable, maybe they'd sue Mike Soldano himself who's circuit they and everyone else ripped.
Yeah, Randall Smith is the king of bullshit patents. I actually have a whole book filled just with his bogus patents. Kinda crazy that he went that far. For everyone that doesn't know, he would take something simple like a switch that adds a resistor somewhere, and patent it. Stuff that's been done a million times before.

And he protects them with an iron fist, so I'm interested to see what he does about the Bugeras, Since I highly doubt they came up with there own ways to implement Mesa features...
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Old May 3rd, 2010, 01:01 PM   #11 (permalink)
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To be honest I'm unsure if Mesa will be too bothered. Behringer are at a completely different end of the market to them and realistically the guys who are going to splash out £1500+ on a Mesa are unlikely to go for a cheaper and likely inferior copy.

Personally I'd love for Mesa to release a simplified version of a rectifier for the low end market. Hell it could even be a mini amp like the Rev Jr/Tiny Terror. I'm sure that if the price was right alot of people would jump on it instantly and not look twice at the Bugera copy.
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Old May 3rd, 2010, 01:22 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Well, Yerasov have been producing and selling a Dual Recto clone for several years now:

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Old May 3rd, 2010, 01:23 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Trevoire520 View Post
To be honest I'm unsure if Mesa will be too bothered. Behringer are at a completely different end of the market to them and realistically the guys who are going to splash out £1500+ on a Mesa are unlikely to go for a cheaper and likely inferior copy.

Personally I'd love for Mesa to release a simplified version of a rectifier for the low end market. Hell it could even be a mini amp like the Rev Jr/Tiny Terror. I'm sure that if the price was right alot of people would jump on it instantly and not look twice at the Bugera copy.
You mean like this or this or this?
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Old May 3rd, 2010, 01:24 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikko Vainiala View Post
Dude, you believe those patents? Do you know what's even claimed with them? And how many of them have been common knowledge and in earlier publications (like Radio Designer's Handbook)...following that logic every other guitar amplifier would be denied. So, cheek in tongue, example: Luckily preamps are not patentable, maybe they'd sue Mike Soldano himself who's circuit they and everyone else ripped.
To be fair, I haven't looked at them. I figured (based on intuition) that the patents had to do with very specific features like the implementation of graphic EQ and the switchable power section in the Mark Series.

Seems like the patents are taking a beating in this thread, I'll have to take a look. Easy enough to find them:

http://www.google.com/patents?q=rand...Search+Patents

Anyway, I recognize the fact that patent "trolls" exist, but I have always respected Mesa/Boogie enough that I never questioned their legitimacy and innovation.
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Old May 3rd, 2010, 01:31 PM   #15 (permalink)
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but yeah, ~950€ for the Bugera Trirec. Pretty affordable compared to the mesa prices here (2400€)
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Old May 3rd, 2010, 08:45 PM   #16 (permalink)
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The pre 2009 Bugeras are noted for their poor reliability. I don't recall the exact reason why off the top of my head, but it's been fixed since 2009.
I asked the local official Bugera repair tech (also the official tech for almost every other amp and effects company in the state) about their reliability and he said that the earlier models had power transformers way too close to the boards, so some bits would literally melt. Their fix was to heat-insulate the area (post-2007 models, apprently, already have this fixed), and after that, he said they're about as reliable as any other tube amp.
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Old May 4th, 2010, 12:24 AM   #17 (permalink)
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I'll get one for a spare and just fun of it
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Old May 4th, 2010, 01:36 AM   #18 (permalink)
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I'll get one for a spare and just fun of it
I think I'll grab one too, I swore to never buy anything Mesa, but I'd still love to own a Recto... Guess this is the way, or build my own.
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Old May 4th, 2010, 01:53 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Randall is the master at eliminating free market competition by patenting improvements or circuits to switch between two of the same circuits (for example to with between a silicon rectifier or a vacuum tube rectifier) Almost half of his patents revolve around "improving" someone else's' design (he has even wrote that in the patents). Taking two circuits that was someone else idea and putting them in the same device is not a patent. And almost every patent of his is something a 1st year electronics student could think of simply reading a fundamentals of analog circuits book.

I think that he is a coward who is afraid of having a fair free market competition, every single one of his patents does not fit the mold for a patentable material (must not be an improvement of someone else's design, patented or not, and MUST NOT BE AN OBVIOUS DESIGN). Because of this he is able to comfortably choose how expensive he wants to have his amps because no one else can compete with him, he has monopolized the system to prevent competition (which is ILLEGAL in the US, just ask Bill Gates), which explains the ridiculous prices of their amps. I am pretty sure if there were not patents he would be blown out of the water by EE's who could take what he patented and make it better AND cheaper.

Just a list of somethings he calls a patent

-Switchable rectifiers (silicon or valve)
-Switchable clean boost between the preamp and poweramp
-Simultaneous use of a different class amplifiers (class A blended with class AB)
-Digital Potentiometer for Audio use (a digital potentiometer has been around forever, he just patented the use of one in ALL audio applications)
-Mains Voltage reduction aka variac (manufacturer of transformers have put multiple taps on primaries to switch from US to EU voltages, he was the first to patent the use of the central taps to be 70.7% of the designed mains voltage (it was actually done before him many times before, he was just the first to patent it, which means SOMEONE ELSE ALREADY DID THAT AND HE STILL PATENTED IT)
-Switchable amplifier (from single ended to push-pull)
-Poweramp power reduction (the ability to turn off pairs of tubes to get half power, or turn off three tubes to have one tube in class A to get quarter power)
-Footswitchable volume boost
-Adjustable Parallel FX loop (he was the FIRST to patent the use of an FX loop that had a blend knob between wet and dry (those designs have been in FX units for years prior, he was just the first to put it in an FX loop of an amp))

Like I said every single one of those is something you could easily think up of by simply reading a basic electronics theory book, and considering that most of his designs are "improvements" of someone else design, I have no respect for the man, IMO he is a coward afraid of fair competition. How the US patent office granted all of them is beyond me, apparently they can't follow their own rules/guidelines for what is a patent.

Quote:
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I think I'll grab one too, I swore to never buy anything Mesa, but I'd still love to own a Recto... Guess this is the way, or build my own.
watch it, US patents protect the patent holder from people even building their patents, he could sue you just for building a dual recto for your own personal use.
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Old May 4th, 2010, 02:06 AM   #20 (permalink)
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watch it, US patents protect the patent holder from people even building their patents, he could sue you just for building a dual recto for your own personal use.
True. And he probably would too. I actually had to ditch an idea for my Hellfire since I later found out it was close to something done by him. Didn't even want to deal with it so I just nixed the idea all together.
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Old May 4th, 2010, 02:32 AM   #21 (permalink)
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just wiring up the circuit in the US is enough. In the case of a dual recto, you could build a separate external rectifier for the amp, that plug in directly through an IEC into the smoother circuit. The amp will have two IEC's, one going through the rectifier and the other going straight to the smoothing circuit, upon a switch between the Pentode plate can be switched from one IEC to the next, allowing the external rectifier to power the plates of the power tubes. The only issues of that are, you need to tow around an external rectifier, it would be more expensive to build, it would only power the powertubes (to power the pretubes would require another rectifier/transformer) and they would have to be connected to the same ground to prevent ground issues, having both the IEC cables ground terminal soldered to the chassis should deal with the situation but given the design to exact details there could be discrepancies.

Its a pain in the ass but a sure way to get back at him, maybe we could patent the use of an amp having a switchable mains transformer to external transformer (switchable internal/external PSU) and let all the other amp companies to make the product except mesa.
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Old May 4th, 2010, 06:51 AM   #22 (permalink)
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i just had a look at some of Randall Smiths patents.... some are HILARIOUS.

Presence control for guitar amplifier
Power supply for guitar amplifier

thats INSANE

BTW did you know Peavey own a trademark on the word THIRTY.
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Old May 4th, 2010, 06:56 AM   #23 (permalink)
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UPDATE: I've written Mesa/Boogie to notify them about this, just in case they haven't noticed. This bullshit has to stop.
Did they reply to you, if they did, what did they say?
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Old May 4th, 2010, 08:42 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Are these out yet? Whats the sale price? Retail is 1100 or so, but what are they selling for?
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Old May 4th, 2010, 09:51 AM   #25 (permalink)
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BTW did you know Peavey own a trademark on the word THIRTY.
Haha..thats madness.GO peavey
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