API VS Focusrite - Page 2

MarcusD777 · February 19th, 2011, 11:31 AM

Bumps upside yo head...

AHChris · February 19th, 2011, 03:32 PM

Well the low mid punch makes the difference really obvious... API GAS engaged, Lunchbox is still empty -.-

Trevoire520 · February 19th, 2011, 08:17 PM

The more I listen to this the more I think that a song that had everthing tracked through the octopre could potentially come out pretty muddy in the end. Obviously you can compensate with eq but the API just seems like it would make life so much easier.

I don't have money to spend on a A2D dammit! I'm a student ffs!

Soundlurker · February 20th, 2011, 03:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trevoire520

Obviously you can compensate with eq but the API just seems like it would make life so much easier.

Not entirely sure you can. Listen to the dynamics - the API keep the low/lowmids in check, where they get messy and loose with the Focusrite.

Lasse Lammert · February 20th, 2011, 04:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarcusD777

Lasse have you had any issues keeping the API preamps at a reasonable level on the outputs into your converters when driving them for extra color and distortion with drums?? I know these bad boys run super hot soo I'm looking for a means to tame the line level signal out out the API into the Fireface 800 running at +4 dBu... Are there any line level attenuators that don't affect the tone like some mic pads would?? The input pads of the API would seem to defeat this purpose of running them hot for color on the ouputs ...

just set your interface accordingly.
on my API I can adjust every input indiviually in 0.1 dB steps.
I think on the RME stuff you have -10, +4 and high gain switches.

the octopre sounds a bit clearer than the Control24 pres btw.
The RME pres sounded muddier/woolier than the Octopre in the last shootout I did (some time ago, files might still be here though)

Edit:
http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/e...e-cheapos.html

(without the clips though

)

~BURNY~ · February 20th, 2011, 04:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow_Walker

Not entirely sure you can. Listen to the dynamics - the API keep the low/lowmids in check, where they get messy and loose with the Focusrite.

To be fair, this seems to be specific to API, not sure a Neve type pre would be a lot clearer.

mickrich · February 20th, 2011, 05:05 AM

This test isn't really fair to Focusrite.
The C24 pres are nothing like Focusrite's ISA pres.
I have 9 ISA channels (828 and 220) and have an API A2D.
The APIs are certainly a bit more forward sounding, the ISAs are fine pres and I prefer them for some sources.
re the discussion on API output being too hot if you drive them, the A2D is great because it has a pre-converter level control which lets you drive the pre as hot as you want then adjust volume before conversion.

Soundlurker · February 20th, 2011, 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~BURNY~

To be fair, this seems to be specific to API, not sure a Neve type pre would be a lot clearer.

True, I'm just commenting on the comparison between these two and for this particular task. I'm happy with my Octopre LE but it's no mystery for me why people spend so much on a pre if the source has already been taken care of

~BURNY~ · February 20th, 2011, 05:37 AM

I was meaning to quote Trevoire, sorry.

El_Gato · February 20th, 2011, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aramism

i'd think a more fair comparison as far as similar class pres would be api vs great river. one of these days i'll do something similar with a reamped track as i have both.

in my experience without posting samples i'd say that the api is certainly a beast but in some applications i've always felt the great river to have a little more brightness and bite in the right frequencies to stand out in a mix. it depends on the genre i guess. api is smoother a little bit. hopefully next week i can have something to post.

on edit: recently i had a project where i couldn't decide which one to use and ended up using both on separate sides of double tracking.

Everytime I see Great River or any expensive pres reviews lately, I think of this thread:

Gearslutz

Lasse Lammert · February 20th, 2011, 06:28 AM

Andy has te Focusrite Red and he says they're great preamps, but he's not using them often cause they tend to be a bit cloudy/wooly in the low mids.
I don't understand this "APIs are too hot" thing though, I've never used a converter that couldn't be adjusted to fit the output level of the preamps

AudioGeekZine · February 20th, 2011, 01:31 PM

thanks for the shootout Lasse

what I heard
the c24 wasn't as tight in the low mids which made sound like it captured more lows and subs than the API but I don't think that's true.
The API is a touch brighter which brought out more fizz (comparatively).
It also seemed like the amp had more gain through the api, more aggressive but I guess it's just a faster preamp.
The API was tighter and didn't have that 'woofy' sound in the lows that the c24 did on the palm muted parts which definitely makes a difference.
API is great, I can see using far less eq and multi-band compression for those tracks while mixing. OTOH, with some eq and compression, transient shaping, you may be able to make the c24 sound just like the api.

Quote:

Everytime I see Great River or any expensive pres reviews lately, I think of this thread:

Gearslutz

Also a good shootout. Clearly audible difference but both very usable sounds.

I did the test without reading the thread first.
A lot of people complain about having a different performance in shootouts but I say its still valid, especially here where its 3 tracks layered and more like a real life scenario.
anyway
Apple (GR) has far more highs and 'airiness' than the other. Maybe brighter than real life. Captures the attack of the bass with much more clarity.
Orange (ART) thicker lows, doesn't have that 'air' that apple had. Guitar sounds boxier with less pick definition. Bass is rounder which can be good. Overall sound is less exciting.
Strictly as tonal choices, the ART pre can be useful at times but you wouldn't want that color for all your tracks.
I wonder if that ART MP is the same as the Behringer 100.

Someone kept mentioning the Pre73, that design is much slower than the API design, even slower than the c24 pre, but a little more flexible with the drive control and impedance switch. It's not a bright and fast pre like an API, its supposed to be fat and slow like a Neve.

Mesa4x12er · February 21st, 2011, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by El_Gato

Everytime I see Great River or any expensive pres reviews lately, I think of this thread:

Gearslutz

I remember that thread. I just did a shootout a few weeks ago I posted on here and even within the high end camp there are big differences in sound. Not necessarily better or worse, just different.

El_Gato · February 21st, 2011, 04:43 PM

Yap, I remember listening to them back then and I heard minimal differences but there were some flavours for sure. I personally have little experience with pre's: RME latest ones, 003 focusrite, SSL Alpha Channel, Avalon and some low end ones but the feeling is that converters and a slight mic movement can affect the tone more dramatically than the pre itself.

That GS thread is very funny, even I thought of asking for a video for proof, lol. Definitely, not a 2200 € difference in the case of GR vs Art. In fact, I preferred Oranges over Apples.

I admit the API's use to win all tests but the difference is tiny and I'm not spending that much money for them right now. This opinion may change when I hear myself through an API though

Trevoire520 · February 21st, 2011, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by El_Gato

Yap, I remember listening to them back then and I heard minimal differences but there were some flavours for sure. I personally have little experience with pre's: RME latest ones, 003 focusrite, SSL Alpha Channel, Avalon and some low end ones but the feeling is that converters and a slight mic movement can affect the tone more dramatically than the pre itself.

That GS thread is very funny, even I thought of asking for a video for proof, lol. Definitely, not a 2200 € difference in the case of GR vs Art. In fact, I preferred Oranges over Apples.

I admit the API's use to win all tests but the difference is tiny and I'm not spending that much money for them right now. This opinion may change when I hear myself through an API though

To be honest a converter change is going to have even less of an effect on the sound than a preamp change. Converters are designed to be as flat and accurate as possible, whereas some pre's are designed to give a certain colouration to the sound.

El_Gato · February 21st, 2011, 08:43 PM

You got a point there.

drew_drummer · February 22nd, 2011, 09:14 AM

I just did that test El_Gato... I preferred Orange. Sounded fuller to me.

Then I see which one it is... and I'm like....

WUHT?!>!

drew_drummer · February 22nd, 2011, 09:17 AM

As for the API and C24... I am hearing VERY little difference.

e.scarab · February 25th, 2011, 03:38 PM

I have a question, have you tried comparing the new Saffire series pres to the API? I am really curious as the pres in my Saffire Pro 40 are actually really, really nice...just wondering....

Lasse Lammert · February 25th, 2011, 03:47 PM

No, but I compared the octopre series I (platinum as well), and those are really nice, I wouldn't feel bad doing an album with them. Much more open than the c24 pres IMO...although they're said to be the same

gabriel g. · February 25th, 2011, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lasse Lammert

No, but I compared the octopre series I (platinum as well), and those are really nice, I wouldn't feel bad doing an album with them. Much more open than the c24 pres IMO...although they're said to be the same

thats the reason I am buying your octopre le MK1 for 8 realy usable extra channels.

e.scarab · February 26th, 2011, 01:47 PM

Actually, the new Saffire series pres are a bit different than the Octopre Mark 1/platinum series. I went through two Platinum TrakMaster Pros that were terrible. Both started developing a lot of noise starting at 6 on the gain. I had a couple of lengthy discussions with Focusrite about it and they told me the Saffire series have new chips that have made a huge difference. They told me they are discontinuing the Platinum series because they couldn't maintain quality control at that price point. This may not be news to many of you, but for those looking for some really good pres for cheap: all the Saffire series, including the Saffire 6 USB which can be had for $189 have the same pres. They are better than the LE series and my experience with my Pro 40 is you can literally turn them up to 10 with no noise. I am sold on the Saffire series and if you are thinking of getting an Octopre MK II w/o dynamics, get a Pro 40 instead. They are the same price but the Pro 40 is also a 20 in, 20 out interface with two monitor channels and extensive monitoring for the same price. Save the $200 more you would pay for the Octorpre MK II w/dynamics and buy a Pro 40 and then spend $99 on the Midnight series compressor/eq. You will be extremely happy! I feel lucky because I found an online store that was selling the Pro 40 for $399 and ZZounds "beat their price" and sold me one for $390! I am one happy camper!

February 19th, 2011, 03:32 PM	#27 (permalink)
AHChris Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Bavaria Posts: 987	Well the low mid punch makes the difference really obvious... API GAS engaged, Lunchbox is still empty -.- __________________ Mac Pro Quad Core - Euphonix Artist Control Surfaces - Pro Tools 9 - Cubase 6x32 - Echo Audiofire 12 (x2) - 16 channels of Audient ASP 008 - SPL 2Control - Event Opal - Overstayer Stereo Comp - 1176 clone (x2) - Shure, Rode and Neumann microphones // Mesa Triple Rectifier (3ch) - Peavey 6505 - Marshall JCM900 - Mesa OS 4x12 - Maxon TS-808 - Ibanez TS-7 - Caparison Horus - Ibanez RG-2550 - Agile Septor 627 - Gibson SG BTFF

February 20th, 2011, 05:05 AM	#32 (permalink)
mickrich Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 875	This test isn't really fair to Focusrite. The C24 pres are nothing like Focusrite's ISA pres. I have 9 ISA channels (828 and 220) and have an API A2D. The APIs are certainly a bit more forward sounding, the ISAs are fine pres and I prefer them for some sources. re the discussion on API output being too hot if you drive them, the A2D is great because it has a pre-converter level control which lets you drive the pre as hot as you want then adjust volume before conversion. __________________ www.facebook.com/trackmixrecordingstudio Re-amps through Mesa Triple Recto and MK4, Peavey 6505, Marshall DSL and 8100, H&K Triamp II. Mesa, Orange, Marshall cabs IR packs: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...s_MICKRICH.zip https://dl.dropbox.com/u/2133088/MICKRICH_IR_PACK.zip

February 20th, 2011, 05:37 AM	#34 (permalink)
~BURNY~ Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,831	I was meaning to quote Trevoire, sorry. __________________ Context is everything

February 20th, 2011, 06:28 AM	#36 (permalink)
Lasse Lammert HCAF Blitzkrieg Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 8,047	Andy has te Focusrite Red and he says they're great preamps, but he's not using them often cause they tend to be a bit cloudy/wooly in the low mids. I don't understand this "APIs are too hot" thing though, I've never used a converter that couldn't be adjusted to fit the output level of the preamps __________________ Contact me about Reamping Mixing Mastering Drumediting (special UM rates)  Lasse Lammert Drumsamples My Band's FB...LIKE IT, BITCH!

February 21st, 2011, 04:43 PM	#39 (permalink)
El_Gato I love this gain Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Spain Posts: 1,243	Yap, I remember listening to them back then and I heard minimal differences but there were some flavours for sure. I personally have little experience with pre's: RME latest ones, 003 focusrite, SSL Alpha Channel, Avalon and some low end ones but the feeling is that converters and a slight mic movement can affect the tone more dramatically than the pre itself. That GS thread is very funny, even I thought of asking for a video for proof, lol. Definitely, not a 2200 € difference in the case of GR vs Art. In fact, I preferred Oranges over Apples. I admit the API's use to win all tests but the difference is tiny and I'm not spending that much money for them right now. This opinion may change when I hear myself through an API though __________________ Don't ask what your gear can do for you, but what you can do for your gear

February 19th, 2011, 11:31 AM	#26 (permalink)
MarcusD777 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 187	Bumps upside yo head...

February 19th, 2011, 08:17 PM	#28 (permalink)
Trevoire520 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Fife, Scotland Posts: 4,400	The more I listen to this the more I think that a song that had everthing tracked through the octopre could potentially come out pretty muddy in the end. Obviously you can compensate with eq but the API just seems like it would make life so much easier. I don't have money to spend on a A2D dammit! I'm a student ffs!

February 21st, 2011, 08:43 PM	#41 (permalink)
El_Gato I love this gain Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Spain Posts: 1,243	You got a point there. __________________ Don't ask what your gear can do for you, but what you can do for your gear

February 22nd, 2011, 09:14 AM	#42 (permalink)
drew_drummer Dancefap Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: London, UK Posts: 5,904	I just did that test El_Gato... I preferred Orange. Sounded fuller to me. Then I see which one it is... and I'm like.... WUHT?!>! __________________ HOME PAGE :: BIG CARTEL :: YOUTUBE :: TWITTER :: FACEBOOK "Part doom, part sludge, part stoner, part post-rock, Exegesis is all win. It’s a marriage of inspired songwriting, highly skilled performance, and close-to-perfect production engineering.” www.nocleansinging.com

February 22nd, 2011, 09:17 AM	#43 (permalink)
drew_drummer Dancefap Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: London, UK Posts: 5,904	As for the API and C24... I am hearing VERY little difference. __________________ HOME PAGE :: BIG CARTEL :: YOUTUBE :: TWITTER :: FACEBOOK "Part doom, part sludge, part stoner, part post-rock, Exegesis is all win. It’s a marriage of inspired songwriting, highly skilled performance, and close-to-perfect production engineering.” www.nocleansinging.com

February 25th, 2011, 03:38 PM	#44 (permalink)
e.scarab Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 2	I have a question, have you tried comparing the new Saffire series pres to the API? I am really curious as the pres in my Saffire Pro 40 are actually really, really nice...just wondering....

February 25th, 2011, 03:47 PM	#45 (permalink)
Lasse Lammert HCAF Blitzkrieg Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 8,047	No, but I compared the octopre series I (platinum as well), and those are really nice, I wouldn't feel bad doing an album with them. Much more open than the c24 pres IMO...although they're said to be the same __________________ Contact me about Reamping Mixing Mastering Drumediting (special UM rates)  Lasse Lammert Drumsamples My Band's FB...LIKE IT, BITCH!

February 26th, 2011, 01:47 PM	#47 (permalink)
e.scarab Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 2	Actually, the new Saffire series pres are a bit different than the Octopre Mark 1/platinum series. I went through two Platinum TrakMaster Pros that were terrible. Both started developing a lot of noise starting at 6 on the gain. I had a couple of lengthy discussions with Focusrite about it and they told me the Saffire series have new chips that have made a huge difference. They told me they are discontinuing the Platinum series because they couldn't maintain quality control at that price point. This may not be news to many of you, but for those looking for some really good pres for cheap: all the Saffire series, including the Saffire 6 USB which can be had for $189 have the same pres. They are better than the LE series and my experience with my Pro 40 is you can literally turn them up to 10 with no noise. I am sold on the Saffire series and if you are thinking of getting an Octopre MK II w/o dynamics, get a Pro 40 instead. They are the same price but the Pro 40 is also a 20 in, 20 out interface with two monitor channels and extensive monitoring for the same price. Save the $200 more you would pay for the Octorpre MK II w/dynamics and buy a Pro 40 and then spend $99 on the Midnight series compressor/eq. You will be extremely happy! I feel lucky because I found an online store that was selling the Pro 40 for $399 and ZZounds "beat their price" and sold me one for $390! I am one happy camper!