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Old July 13th, 2012, 08:56 AM   #1 (permalink)
m3adi3c
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Speakers for downtuned (extreme) metal

Hi, glad to have found you!

I am a bedroom guitarist and I mainly play downtuned (extreme) metal. I have a 7 string guitar (Ibanez Apex II) which I usually tune at least a full step down and play with much distortion (Cannibal Corpse, Slayer, Paradise Lost...).

I want to sell my crappy amp and run my effects processor into either an active speaker (or a pair of) or a pair of studio monitors. Moreover, whatever I buy, I will also be using it for listening to music, since I don't have any speakers whatsoever (except for the built-ins of my laptop )

What I need is something that handles well low end with much distortion, without extreme power, since I do have neighbors and I don't play in a band (perhaps around 100W would do).

So...for the speakers, the con is the excessive power which usually comes with 12" or 15" speakers (needed for good low ends) and for the monitors, the con is related to the non-treated environment in my room (I don't plan on doing any acoustical treatment, I have a normal, usual room...) and I'm afraid that studio monitors are bad in non-treated rooms.

However, my technical knowledge is limited, so feel free to argue against anything I said.

So I kindly ask you to give advice and arguments either for the speaker(s) option or for the monitors.

Thanks a lot,
Adrian
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Old July 13th, 2012, 09:00 AM   #2 (permalink)
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welcome.


Do you fap?
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Old July 13th, 2012, 09:02 AM   #3 (permalink)
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^just messing around...but seriously, get a poweramp and a Mesa 2X12 cab. It will not let you down.
...get something else for the playback.
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Old July 13th, 2012, 09:12 AM   #4 (permalink)
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^just messing around...but seriously, get a poweramp and a Mesa 2X12 cab. It will not let you down.
...get something else for the playback.
Funny... I'm sure it won't let down BUT... I forgot to mention my budget... $400 MAX, so...
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Old July 13th, 2012, 09:33 AM   #5 (permalink)
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So you want studio monitors, not a guitar amp/cab correct? I'd search the for studio monitors then. I promise you don't want (and can't afford) monitors with a 12" or 15".
You're looking in the 5"-8" range. All speakers are bad in untreated rooms. It's not unique to studio monitors. The goal of acoustic treatment is to get the most accurate and uncolored reproduction your system (whatever it is) is capable of.
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Old July 13th, 2012, 09:40 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by egan. View Post
So you want studio monitors, not a guitar amp/cab correct? I'd search the for studio monitors then. I promise you don't want (and can't afford) monitors with a 12" or 15".
You're looking in the 5"-8" range. All speakers are bad in untreated rooms. It's not unique to studio monitors. The goal of acoustic treatment is to get the most accurate and uncolored reproduction your system (whatever it is) is capable of.
Yes, sir, you got it right! I don't want an amp/cab/combo, but active speakers or studio monitors.

I noticed that the 5"-8" range is the one I afford.

So you mean that the active speakers are as affected by the lack of acoustical treatment as the studio monitors? I mean...aren't studio monitors designed for studio use and active speakers for stage? Shouldn't the monitors be more affected by the environment?

Also, do you have any recomendations of products? I'm a newbie, so I have close to zero knowledge about the importance of the specs, most respected brands and so on....

Thanks again.
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Old July 13th, 2012, 09:47 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by egan. View Post
So you want studio monitors, not a guitar amp/cab correct? I'd search the for studio monitors then. I promise you don't want (and can't afford) monitors with a 12" or 15".
You're looking in the 5"-8" range. All speakers are bad in untreated rooms. It's not unique to studio monitors. The goal of acoustic treatment is to get the most accurate and uncolored reproduction your system (whatever it is) is capable of.
Then wouldn't the OP benefit more from a good pair of headphones instead?
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Old July 13th, 2012, 10:05 AM   #8 (permalink)
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http://www.equatoraudio.com/D5_Studi..._Pair_p/d5.htm

if you want em you better get em quick, they don't stay in stock for very long
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Old July 13th, 2012, 10:37 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m3adi3c View Post
I noticed that the 5"-8" range is the one I afford.

So you mean that the active speakers are as affected by the lack of acoustical treatment as the studio monitors? I mean...aren't studio monitors designed for studio use and active speakers for stage? Shouldn't the monitors be more affected by the environment?
Yeah, every speaker is effected by the environment (headphones being an obvious exception). The reason acoustics and studio monitors go hand in hand is that if you are buying studio monitors you are almost certainly more interested in accuracy than the average hifi buyer.
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Old July 13th, 2012, 12:04 PM   #10 (permalink)
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@Robert: Of course, headphones are the best in OP. I plan on buying some good ones too. BUT the problem is monitoring. I need to be able to play and jam with my friends (no drummer, as I said) so I need a replacement for my amp and I chose active speakers.

@arv: Wouldn't 8" speakers perform better? Just asking... (I found a pair of Samsons with 8" speakers, I can't remember their name though - EDIT: RESOLV A8). Moreover, shipping to Romania (my country) is around $100 from US or even UK...

@egan: Ok, I got your point, thanks. So, overall, you too suggest monitors and not powered speakers?

Thanks.
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Old July 13th, 2012, 01:09 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Most of the monitors you'll see for that price have their own power. I'd really go with what arv_foh said because those are killer monitors for that price and you'll have a bit of cash left over to buy/make proper stands for them.
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Old July 13th, 2012, 01:22 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m3adi3c View Post
@arv: Wouldn't 8" speakers perform better? Just asking... (I found a pair of Samsons with 8" speakers, I can't remember their name though - EDIT: RESOLV A8). Moreover, shipping to Romania (my country) is around $100 from US or even UK...
if your room is untreated, absolutely not
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Old July 14th, 2012, 02:48 AM   #13 (permalink)
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OK, so I read thoroughly what you all suggested and also read a couple of reviews of the Equators. Indeed, they seem the real deal for the money, at least.

But, as I said, the problem is that I will not buy anything in the following weeks at least. First I have to sell my amp and there are some other priorities So I posted here to gather as much info as possible and when I make my decision, I want to be as responsible as I can get, since I don't plan on changing my gear again soon

So, all in all, I was also thinking about some active 12" speakers (or at least one, depends on my money ). Do you really think I'm better off with studio monitors? Even in the context of jamming with my friends (again, no drummer)? Could you please indicate some other options, both for monitors and for speakers? I remind you that my budget is around $300 and that I'm from Romania and the shipping from US is around $100... So if you indicate some product, I'll be searching for it in the local stores.

Thank you all for your time and patience.
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Old July 14th, 2012, 10:27 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m3adi3c View Post
OK, so I read thoroughly what you all suggested and also read a couple of reviews of the Equators. Indeed, they seem the real deal for the money, at least.

But, as I said, the problem is that I will not buy anything in the following weeks at least. First I have to sell my amp and there are some other priorities So I posted here to gather as much info as possible and when I make my decision, I want to be as responsible as I can get, since I don't plan on changing my gear again soon

So, all in all, I was also thinking about some active 12" speakers (or at least one, depends on my money ). Do you really think I'm better off with studio monitors? Even in the context of jamming with my friends (again, no drummer)? Could you please indicate some other options, both for monitors and for speakers? I remind you that my budget is around $300 and that I'm from Romania and the shipping from US is around $100... So if you indicate some product, I'll be searching for it in the local stores.

Thank you all for your time and patience.
If you want it to be LOUD, buy an active 12" speaker (the only one in your price range is behringer). If you want it to be ACCURATE, buy studio monitors. Studio monitors are plenty loud to jam without a drummer
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Old July 14th, 2012, 10:52 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by m3adi3c View Post
OK, so I read thoroughly what you all suggested and also read a couple of reviews of the Equators. Indeed, they seem the real deal for the money, at least.

But, as I said, the problem is that I will not buy anything in the following weeks at least. First I have to sell my amp and there are some other priorities So I posted here to gather as much info as possible and when I make my decision, I want to be as responsible as I can get, since I don't plan on changing my gear again soon

So, all in all, I was also thinking about some active 12" speakers (or at least one, depends on my money ). Do you really think I'm better off with studio monitors? Even in the context of jamming with my friends (again, no drummer)? Could you please indicate some other options, both for monitors and for speakers? I remind you that my budget is around $300 and that I'm from Romania and the shipping from US is around $100... So if you indicate some product, I'll be searching for it in the local stores.

Thank you all for your time and patience.
Big 12 inch speakers for monitoring/mixing are about 2500€, also you have to sit like 6-10 meters away from them to get proper imaging. Depending on how close to sit to your monitors I'd recommend getting smaller ones. The closer you sit to them, the less your room matters. If you jam with friends, but no drummer you can easily get away with 5" speakers. Studio monitors are usually much louder than one would imagine for the size.

Thomann has some B-Stock Alesis M1 Mk2 at the moment for 285€: http://www.thomann.de/ro/alesis_m1_a...k2_b_stock.htm

I can recommend those if you need some power and want neutral bang-for-the-buck mixing speakers.
I've talked to some guys who use those for serious, professional mixing and are still very happy with them even though they are using Dynaudios as first speakers.
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Old July 14th, 2012, 11:37 AM   #16 (permalink)
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OK, thank you all. I'll head to stores and friends and try as many pieces as possible (both active speakers and monitors) and then decide.

Again, thanks for all your answers.

Regards,
Adrian
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Old August 7th, 2012, 08:30 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Hello again!

I'd like to revive this discussion since I haven't exactly decided on buying something, but I narrowed the search and I think I have some possible solutions.

So I decided to stick with the somehow classical setup, i.e. either with a guitar combo or head+cabinet. There are some things that I'd like to mention:

1. The total budged would be around $500 (400 EUR, say).
2. If I buy a good amp (head+cab or combo) and I love its live sound, I need a mic to record and that means some extra money...
3. In the conditions of 2., I will not have patches, i.e. I have to tweak the tone (almost) everytime I play. I will be able to switch between a clean and distorted channel, but nothing more... (say from crunch to heavy distortion to lead tone).

In this conditions, I thought that a modeler (processor) would do great. Not only will I be able to record directly via USB, but also I'll have patches - as different as I want them.

So, my questions are:
1) Are there, actually, any other valid options for having different and separate patches (other than a processor, e.g. a POD or my Digitech)?
2) What amps do you recommend, having in view everything that I wrote above?
3) Is it a good idea to send my processor's signal to an audio amplifier to a cabinet such that I'll have the exact sound of the processor, without the amp (head) involved to change it?
4) What do you think about the Ibanez TBX150, either in the head or combo option? If I buy the combo and change the speakers with some V30's is it the same as using the head into a 2x12" V30 cabinet?

Thanks.
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Old August 7th, 2012, 09:17 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Peavey ValveKing 112 Combo?
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Old August 7th, 2012, 10:19 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Peavey ValveKing 112 Combo?
Well...now I have the VK Royal 8 combo and, although the bigger speaker means a lot, I tend to think that the VK series is very bright, sort of British-sounding and I'm more of an American-modern style, like the 6505, Mesa and the like.

So I'll try it at the local store, but I doubt that I'll like it.

Thanks.
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Old August 7th, 2012, 11:48 AM   #20 (permalink)
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I guess it depends a lot on whether you want a tube or solid state amp.
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Old August 7th, 2012, 12:13 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Dunno about US prices but you might be able to bag a 6505 1x12 combo for less than $400. If you have any dollah left over it'd be worth swapping the speaker out for a V30 or similar.
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Old August 7th, 2012, 12:44 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Maybe try one of the high gain AMT pedals with the amp you have now instead. Certainly would be cheaper than buying a new amp.
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Old August 8th, 2012, 02:28 AM   #23 (permalink)
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I guess it depends a lot on whether you want a tube or solid state amp.
Of course it depends, but given the fact that my budget is somehow low and that I will be using a cheap-ish processor, I think a SS would do fine. Moreover, in extreme metal, it could be tighter and punchier at low volumes and low prices. I'd love a tube amp, but I'm afraid I can't afford a good one...

Quote:
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Dunno about US prices but you might be able to bag a 6505 1x12 combo for less than $400. If you have any dollah left over it'd be worth swapping the speaker out for a V30 or similar.
No, unfortunately not. In Romania, a 6505+ retails at around $700, at least... Used it would not drop by much, so it's really not an option...

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Maybe try one of the high gain AMT pedals with the amp you have now instead. Certainly would be cheaper than buying a new amp.
Nah, don't think so. I recently tried an MXR Dime Distortion with my amp and it still sucked... I need at least a 1x12 speaker, but I'd really love a 2x12 cab.

I'll hit the shops and try as many as I can, but so far, the Ibanez TBX head and a Bugera 2x12 cab seems like a great idea.

Any other comments are welcome, I am by no means decided.
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Old August 8th, 2012, 04:37 AM   #24 (permalink)
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I meant the AMT Legend series of preamp pedals. Maybe the P1 or E1 pedal might be a good choice for you.
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Old August 8th, 2012, 04:55 AM   #25 (permalink)
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I meant the AMT Legend series of preamp pedals. Maybe the P1 or E1 pedal might be a good choice for you.
Yea, the dime distortion pedal (and most distortion pedals that are "popular" usually suck dick) the AMT pedals are actually better than any modelling amp I've ever played as well as the 6505+ and valveking mentioned IMO. If your into brutal metal the amptweaker tight metal is beast (it is made by the guy who designed the 6505 and triple XXX)
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