Bulb's/Periphery - Production Tips

[Trevoire520]

Originally Posted by chdrummer

haters gonnnnn hate

I'm not hating on him dude, his stuff sounds good! I just wonder if that's enough to be classed as a producer these days? I suppose he also has creative input for the song arrangements and stuff aswell.

I just feel like the art of actually engineering and capturing stuff with live sound sources and mic's is getting lost in favour of just using POD/Axe FX and Slate/SD2 and sounding like everyone else that's using that stuff.

[mstone564]

Originally Posted by ubersyntax

+1.

Oh, and to add to this... here's a quote from Toontrack's website under Bulb's SD2.0 preset that irritates the crap out of me:

"Thats right, were talking about Misha "Bulb" Mansoor, the prolific musician and producer behind metal projects like Periphery, Haunted Shores and Of Man Not Of Machine, just to name a few."

Seriously? "Prolific"?

Edit: Don't get me wrong... I respect Misha for what he's done and continues to do, but I don't consider him a "prolific" producer.

I have a feeling Toontrack added that quote so they could make a profit from all these kids that just want a preset to shape their mixes. :P

[Williamn]

Originally Posted by Trevoire520

I just wonder if that's enough to be classed as a producer these days? I suppose he also has creative input for the song arrangements and stuff aswell.

.

Actual.. is that not what makes him a producer ?.. I mean he have worked with a few bands (and wrote alot for animals as leaders if im not mistaken).

Unless ofcourse you mean a AE and producer is the same thing.

[Trevoire520]

I suppose I'm kind speaking about one thing when I actually mean another yeah

[Mattayus]

Yeah, totally agreed that he's in no way an AE, but he IS an amazing mixer.
Also, don't forget that none of these titles and comments about his work that are thrown his way are self-professed. It's all just shit other people/websites/interviewers say about him, and I'm fairly positive he doesn't agree with most of it. He's humble, and down to earth, not a douche, but because of what everyone else says about him it makes him seem pretentious when he's really not, and that's a shame.

[JeffTD]

Originally Posted by Mattayus

Yeah, totally agreed that he's in no way an AE, but he IS an amazing mixer.

What??? Since when?? Everything he does sounds identical.

[Mattayus]

True, but I was talking more about his own work. Granted he's got "that" sound now and everything he touches has it, but it it's still well mixed and well processed whether it's the "right way" or not. Not something I would do personally, but it works for what it is

[timislegend]

Originally Posted by JeffTD

What??? Since when?? Everything he does sounds identical.

but ...it sounds identically like misha. good or not he has his own sound that people are driven to.

misha/periphery have complete creative control over their content. and luckily they have a big enough fan-base that allows them to do whatever they want and with whomever they want ...with the support of a label and management.

not a whole lot of newer bands these days have the same luxury.

who cares if he is a (good/bad) producer or engineer or if all of his work sounds the same?

[JeffTD]

I care because the claim that someone who produces the same sounding stuff all the time is an "amazing mixer" is absolute horseshit. Andy is an amazing mixer. CLA is an amazing mixer. Ben Grosse is an amazing mixer.

Misha gets a cool sound that works for his style, but that's about all he seems to know. To call him an "amazing mixer" is an insult to guys like Sneap, CLA, Grosse, Richardson, Staub, etc...

[Mattayus]

That's more a case of context than truth, then. Would you prefer it if it was stated as "he has mixed his own stuff really well"? Because in the context you're talking then no, granted, he's not an amazing mixer in that sense as he only has a handful of clients and they all sound like Periphery.

[JeffTD]

That's a terrible argument - that's like saying Steve Jobs being rich is more of a case of context then truth, because Bill Gates has more money than him.

You said that he's an "amazing mixer." I take issue with that statement - if you want to attribute 'amazing' qualities to him simply because you want to view it in a context compared to bedroom warriors, then that's cool, but at least say he's amazing for a bedroom warrior then.

[Mattayus]

I'm not arguing, I was reiterating for a better explanation. Also.. what's a... bedroom..warrior?

[timislegend]

yea... i wouldn't call him amazing. that's just mattayus' opinion (which he is entitled to).

[Mattayus]

Well, I just failed to put it into context, as people have already pointed out. To put it another way - I think his mixes for Periphery etc are clear, heavy, and well balanced, and very well placed. Would I want to hear it employed on any of the bands I like, including my own? No.

I'm not really sure what that's explained exactly but it was just reiterating what I initially meant, which obviously needs explaining for some people just in case they continue to get irked by the semantics of it all. The initial argument of what I was commenting on was whether he is an AE or not, and I was merely saying no, he isn't, because he uses all VSTi's, but the way in which he uses them is well done.

[Habsburgs]

Jeff why do you hate Misha so much? and why are you comparing him to guys that have been mixing for 20 years.

[JeffTD]

Originally Posted by Habsburgs

Jeff why do you hate Misha so much? and why are you comparing him to guys that have been mixing for 20 years.

I don't at all hate Misha - I have a ton of respect for the guy basically single-handedly carrying this band and writing most if not all of the music they play, but this recent trend of him being considered a producer and mixer is ridiculous IMO. He has one sound that he's sculpted and perfected, and it works OK for Periphery, but the same POD/AxeFX/S2.0 patches get cookie-cuttered onto his other work like Animals As Leaders, Haunted Shores, the Born of Osiris tracks he did, etc, and it all sounds the same/pretty crappy to me and a lot of other people on this forum.

His stuff at the beginning had a ton of potential to me, because the ideas were awesome, the writing was solid, and the riffs were catchy, but the sound has never developed that much. It still sounds like he record all the guitars direct (which he does, fair enough if that's the sound he wants) and programs all the drums (which he did - the comment about the TD-20 kit is false... totally programmed on the Periphery CD). It doesn't sound like a band, at all, and I don't like that sound being heralded as 'great' or 'amazing' because it lowers the bar for everyone.

[timislegend]

Originally Posted by JeffTD

I don't like that sound being heralded as 'great' or 'amazing' because it lowers the bar for everyone.

[Harry Hughes]

Yeah, the Animals as Leaders album really does sound like shit, which is a shame, because I think Tosin Abasi is a cool guitarist and musician.
Now, I'm hardly one to be concerned about music I listen to needing to have top notch, polished production.

I listen to a ton of post metal, sludge metal, stoner rock/metal, and just a lot of stuff that is hardly "polished", but something about the AAL album absolutely grates on my ears, and I can't listen to it all the way through.
To some kids, this album sounds "great" and is "an amazing example of POD XT tones"
Fair enough that Misha has improved since then and obviously the Periphery album sounds much better (but hey, who wouldn't want their own band's album they're producing to sound better?), but still kinda boggles my mind that Misha didn't sit down and think "Hmmm, maybe I should spend another week or so, to get this sounding better!" on the AAL album.
Perhaps they had deadlines or something, I don't know, but point is, somewhere in the process, time could have been spent rectifying some off the problems that came up with the engineering and mix.
Earlier on, could have dialed in a much better guitar tone, could have worked on a better drum sound, just whatever.
It sounds as if Misha didn't use any production references for the album or something. No matter where you are in the game, be it amateur or pro, referencing can definitely make a positive difference on the final outcome.

As for the Periphery album itself, it had the potential to sound more physical and forceful via the bass guitar and snare sound, which would have been awesome since this type of rhythmic, groovy metal really demands that, but again, fell a bit flat.

[chdrummer]

ill always love this song, which misha did

You Tube

[JeffTD]

^^Case in point, those guitars and drums sound exactly like old Periphery demos and the Haunted Shores/BoO stuff.

Originally Posted by timislegend

What, you do? You want to be held to that standard?

[AshesOfTheWake]

Damn Devin Townsend won't release his secret Axefx settings... Now I really wanna hear that tone.

[egan.]

Originally Posted by Harry Hughes

Yeah, the Animals as Leaders album really does sound like shit, which is a shame, because I think Tosin Abasi is a cool guitarist and musician.
I listen to a...lot of stuff that is hardly "polished", but something about the AAL album absolutely grates on my ears, and I can't listen to it all the way through.
To some kids, this album sounds "great" and is "an amazing example of POD XT tones"
Fair enough that Misha has improved since then and obviously the Periphery album sounds much better (but hey, who wouldn't want their own band's album they're producing to sound better?), but still kinda boggles my mind that Misha didn't sit down and think "Hmmm, maybe I should spend another week or so, to get this sounding better!" on the AAL album.
Perhaps they had deadlines or something, I don't know, but point is, somewhere in the process, time could have been spent rectifying some off the problems that came up with the engineering and mix.
Earlier on, could have dialed in a much better guitar tone, could have worked on a better drum sound, just whatever.

Yeah, that record isn't bad in a balance issue or clarity way. It's bad in a "didn't you notice that clean guitar was clipping the entire time?" sort of way. I love that record so much it honestly makes me sad that it's so hard to listen to.
Misha is certainly an incredible talent but I tend to agree with Jeff on the productions. We were all blown away by the early bulb demos-- that someone so young was such a talented writer, player and demo maker-- but the problem is that it feels like the production quality stalled at "awesome demo." That's obviously still an achievement, but it's understandable why some people are put off by the worship.
It's especially strange when you juxtapose it with other threads where people dismiss producers like Botrill and Barresi or any other engineer with strong fundamentals in the craft.
Anyway, he's obviously talented but with hype comes scrutiny.

[timislegend]

Originally Posted by JeffTD

^^Case in point, those guitars and drums sound exactly like old Periphery demos and the Haunted Shores/BoO stuff.



What, you do? You want to be held to that standard?

i don't let things like that define me. people will be as black and white as they want. it's just a matter of opinion.

[Harley Barley]

Misha did that stray from the path album?

[MaellaJohn]

Originally Posted by AboutBlank

<---BTW, post 808, time for a subdrop!

I lol'd and proceeded to play a subdrop sample with my monitors turned nearly all the way up.

Originally Posted by ubersyntax

Acting like a fanboy and taking advantage of the situation in a cheesy fashion are two completely different things. I probably would give him a demo too, but not on camera in the middle of an interview. To stoop that low to basically make [Misha] feel forced to take it is kind of pathetic. Basically he gave Misha no choice but to take it... if Misha said 'no' to him on film, he probably would have come across as a complete douche bag and people would flame him for that. It was a cheesy tactic on the interviewer's part, that's all. People hand demos to bands and labels all the time, that's not the issue... it's the way he did it that's dumb.

Excellent point. I agree with that. Misha does seem, as far as his personality has shown through on camera and through the web, to be the type of person that would take a demo, though.


The minor argument thing that happened above kind of brings me back to a thread I read about wherein the definition of "producer" was discussed. And in the thread, it was expressed literally as someone who makes sure the stuff is done on time, under budget.


I like that face. ^