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Old April 21st, 2012, 05:24 PM   #26 (permalink)
azistenostora
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The pay is great for someone fresh out of college... 45k-60k a year.... but it requires a Bachelor's degree.
Don't know what it's like in the states but in the UK you can expect a pay of about 20K (in pounds) for a junior position. Most places don't expect you to have a degree though. If you know your shit and are not totally socially retarded, you will get the job.
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Old April 21st, 2012, 06:50 PM   #27 (permalink)
Arsenu,
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First, there is no such thing as a Mac programming language... lol. However, iOS uses Objective C (built on C, like C++, but different in a lot of ways). Learn that if you want to create apps for Macs.

I graduate with a Bachelor's Degree in Computer Information Systems in 2 weeks. CIS is basically Computer Science + Business. I took all the same courses a Computer Science major would, minus a few hardware classes (like Computer Architecture, Logic Design, etc.)

I will tell you this: Learning programming by beginning with C and C++ will make you a much stronger programmer than starting off with easier, more modern languages like Ruby/Python/Java/C#/etc.... It forces you to really understand the concepts. C especially will push you, because it's somewhat primitive and quite strict in comparison to many languages. This is good though. It will make learning other languages a lot easier.

For ease of use & my personal interests, I really like being involved with web development and using C#, ASP.NET, PHP, etc. I'm actually hoping to get an interview for an entry-level .NET Developer position within the next week or 2. The pay is great for someone fresh out of college... 45k-60k a year.... but it requires a Bachelor's degree.
i can relate to that. i'd reckon it's kind of like learning how to play fast solo parts legato instead of picking each note when you first start playing guitar...
never did it but i can imagine how that would fuck someone's playing style pretty hard (encountered a guy like that).
question is, do you know anything similar to codeacademy that's teaching C? (or one of it's siblings... objective, +, ++, #...)

again, not trying to program an app that will bring peace to the middle east, but it would probably be wiser to start off the hard way
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Old April 21st, 2012, 09:30 PM   #28 (permalink)
Josh Burgess
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i can relate to that. i'd reckon it's kind of like learning how to play fast solo parts legato instead of picking each note when you first start playing guitar...
never did it but i can imagine how that would fuck someone's playing style pretty hard (encountered a guy like that).
question is, do you know anything similar to codeacademy that's teaching C? (or one of it's siblings... objective, +, ++, #...)

again, not trying to program an app that will bring peace to the middle east, but it would probably be wiser to start off the hard way
Honestly, I'm not too sure of what good tutorial websites might be out there. There probably are more than a few good ones out there. I'd just pick one and try it out. Don't forget that there are MANY books out there for any programming language you can think of...

I don't know Objective C. I know nothing about it. C# is very similar to Java. It's basically Microsoft's version of Java, but improved in a few ways... It wouldn't exist without Java though. Anyways, honestly, if you're just trying to get started, just get visual studio and pick C, C++, or C# and start learning the basic concepts.

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Old April 21st, 2012, 10:38 PM   #29 (permalink)
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As embedded systems SW designer I really do recommend learning C first, even if you won't use it that much later (but using it and programming real, embedded hardware is so much more fun and rewarding than coding those high level enterprise applications!)
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Old April 22nd, 2012, 09:27 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Tetris, in 73 lines of Python:

https://gist.github.com/2464035

As for this whole C/C++ racket,

I still maintain that neither of those are good 'n00b' languages. Sure, C is awesome for embedded systems but honestly, how many beginners are doing embedded micro-controller programming as their first hobby-projects?

None.

All the upsides of C/C++ are lost on the n00b programmer, and all they're left with are the thorny edge-cases and awkward syntax to struggle with.
I reckon every programmer worth a shit should know C/C++ pretty well, but not as a first language as it's so much more important to learn the general concepts rather than spend hours wrestling with the quirks, traps and heart-aches of low-level programming.
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Old April 22nd, 2012, 10:25 AM   #31 (permalink)
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If you're going to start with Python you should check out A Byte of Python. It's a free ebook covering all the basics that's aimed at people who are new to programming.

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http://www.swaroopch.org/notes/Python
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Old April 23rd, 2012, 03:28 PM   #32 (permalink)
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As for this whole C/C++ racket,

I still maintain that neither of those are good 'n00b' languages. Sure, C is awesome for embedded systems but honestly, how many beginners are doing embedded micro-controller programming as their first hobby-projects?

None.

All the upsides of C/C++ are lost on the n00b programmer, and all they're left with are the thorny edge-cases and awkward syntax to struggle with.
I reckon every programmer worth a shit should know C/C++ pretty well, but not as a first language as it's so much more important to learn the general concepts rather than spend hours wrestling with the quirks, traps and heart-aches of low-level programming.
I agree with this.

I started teaching myself C++, then learned Java as a first language at universidad. Then Fortran, but we won't talk about that Anyway, I think I would have done better if I'd started with Python or Java rather than C++.

Something like Python is great for learning general programming concepts, and it allows you to write properly useful programs quite quickly.

Java isn't too bad as a starting language I guess, if you want to get into mobile app development rapidly or something.
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