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Old May 18th, 2012, 02:41 PM   #1 (permalink)
LeSedna
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My rant about so called chemtrails

I'm sick of seeing so many conspiracy theorists talking about this. So in case there are people on this board agreeing with this theory, I'm gonna clarify this.

Chemtrails don't exist, period.

I know this shit, and whoever say I'm lying, am part of the conspiracy, or whatever, is invited to either come to a cockpit when he will be in Europe because here it is possible in some airlines (I know for Air France it's pretty easy, don't know for others, in mine it's not possible though because of stupid UK/USA regulations) to do so, and see that we just do our job which is not spraying chemicals over houses but fly an airplane from point A to point B.

A contrail is the trail created by water condensation (it's pretty cold up there) of the particles rejected by the engines. The air is so pure up there that water cannot condensate until it finds something to "stick" on which happens to be exhausted with it at the same time because exhaust contain both water and carbon particles, so when there are jet engine exhaust available, chemistry rules makes water jump on those and condensate. It's a cloud, for being made of water in majority. It can also be only pure water which would sublimate but condensate. Both ways (could be both at the same time which is more likely to happen) lead to something similar to a cirrus cloud (but technically different because of a different formation process), which at this altitude is made of ice and not droplets of water.

This is a very difficult thing to study, because it happens only in low pressure, low temperature, and therefore high altitude. For being so high in the sky, it's a tough process to get information about it. Hence why even if we know why and how it does form, we can't predict it, and still don't get the whole number of equations going on. Some days it will happen at 20 000 feet, some days at 30 000 and it's impossible to predict.

Now you add that the atmosphere is VERY instable. Sometimes we get a temperature inversion, which means that contrary to usually, at some point in the altitude, the temperature increases instead of dropping. This usually causes the vertical movement of the atmosphere to stop at this very precise change of temperature because a lot of things depend on that (one of them being the fact that since hotter air is less dense, it rises over cold air. and because it encounters hotter air while climbing, it stops there because it's now the cold air relatively to the air over it. so if it had visible moisture with it, the cloud forming vertically stop at this altitude).

Also the conditions can vary horizontally, the wind can turn by 180 degrees in less than a few dozen miles (usually creates a lot of turbulences by friction), even though usually these concern low winds. It also can become drier, or colder, in a little distance. When you get over complex terrain, it can also change every hundreds of feet horizontally.

Why am I talking about that ? My point is to emphasize the atmosphere is complex and constantly changing.

Now take a plane, make it climb. At some point it will create a contrail. It will look like chemicals for those who trust in it, but guess what, it is water that you see. And it will look like someone hit the "ON" button, but it's nothing else than entering in a part of the atmosphere where the requirements are met.

Because of differences horizontally as well, you can see it start and stop and start again, for the same reasons.

People say there are contrails and chemtrails, and will showcase pictures of one vs the other to make their point and prove these are different. They understand the concept of contrail, but think the big contrails, or the one that are flat or not consistent, are chemtrails. They simply fail, and just see in it what pleases them to see.

What they believe is a chemtrail, is just a contrail that is spraid an uneven way.

Take a bowl of red paint and unload it in a calm river. You will see a peaceful line of red paint. Now do it when the river is crazy, it will be a bit messy. this is the same in the air, that's why people think sometimes there are chemrails because there is a big line that stayed for half an hour and became fat and flat and uneven and spread over the next hours. That is just a gradient of speed, vertically, of the winds at this altitude. If the wind at 30 000 ft is 20kt and the one at 30 010 is 20.1kt, over the time a contrail created at 30 000 ft would spread even more than normally and will appear uneven, because it has an height.

People also show on youtube videos a plane having a contrail and then, intermitently, "releasing a -poof- of chemicals and then it starting the release of chemtrails". That is just the conditions of the atmostphere being just in the edge of condensation, and as you fly through that, you will have an ON/OFF phenomenon until you are for good in the conditions of thick contrails. Without climbing, just because the atmosphere just lost the 0.01 degree it needed to have water become visible by condensating. Or the 0.5% of moisture. Or the 0.1 hPa of pressure.

So until now all I have seen on pictures or youtube videos are normal contrails that are just following the unstable flow of the winds at their altitude !

The best part is that in those videos you can clearly see those supposed chemtrails originating from the engines. I have studied the schematics of my engine well enough to be able to see if there were a chemical pipe hidden by some conspiracy group during the assembly of the plane, and where the hell would they store enough of this chemicals, it's already hard to fill a plane of fuel because of the passengers weight ! And I have an eye on the ground staff and I don't see any of them approaching my engines !

Now, YES those contrails have an impact on the ground, because they are like a cirrus cloud high in the sky when the air is so pure than the sun rays are the most easily affected by albedo change. They can be a few dozen of meters wide at creation, way more after some time, half transparent for the sun, so it's like a little cloud that would give you shadow for some time, usually almost nothing though. Some people study this impact globally on the scale of the planet because there are thousands of plane at the same time in the air, but I don't see how this can be of a notable impact unless the number of planes is multiplied by a massive number. Any cumulonimbus cloud is billions of time more massive and powerful than the contrails of a whole fleet united, and has the (heat exchange/kinetic/electrostatic) energy power of a few modern nuclear nukes.

Another thing : if you see a circle in the air, it's nothing else than a plane holding over a point and doing sort of an hippodrome, usually flown in time (in the low part of the atmosphere : 1mn a turn, 1mn the straight line, making it a 4mn hippodrome). It is not because someone is spreading his thing.

If you see a lot of lines in parallel, these are either planes using different routes from the same VOR (a type of beacon) that look parallel to you. Or they aren't using routes but are what we call "vectored" by the traffic control, which means they are given headings instead of routes, for example to avoid a risk of collision. "turn right heading xxx degrees" is a common instruction in the air, and the more planes in the same area, the more the control give us headings and control how we fly. Also, 3 planes can be following the same route at the same time but at several levels. It happened to me several times. From the ground people would think we are flying together and spreading our stuff a military way, but the truth is I'm going to Eindhoven and my friend 2000ft lower is going to Munich.

Last thing, but this is RARE and usually a bad sign, some planes can jettison their own fuel in the air, in case they need to lower their weight. Mine can't, because it is so powerful than even with one single engine it meets all legal requirement of vertical climb ability, and also because the maximum certified landing weight is high and so close to the maximum take off weight that even in case of emergency after take off at max weight, it would be an acceptable risk and law transgression to land immediately. But some can, and if the emergency is not a MAYDAY but just a non immediate risk, the captain can decide to just take his time and wait doing circles and dumping fuel to make his landing 100% normal and safe (and will avoid the legal full check of the airplane structure after landing before it's allowed to fly again). It will look messy in the air, but that is again not chemicals intended at controlling people's brains, or controlling how much water you'll get today by precipitation. This is pretty rare, because it's obviously a tremendous waste of money, and quite a dispersion of fuel in the pure atmosphere if it's done low enough to affect people. But as it is a rare event, it's totally negligeable.

I don't say warfare chemicals sprayable from the air don't exist, and WWI is enough to know it is a reality, though they are not allowed by the Geneva Convention. But it would be the most stupid way to do it like this. Why ? Because it's highly uneffective to do it at such an altitude where the wind can be as high as 100 mph (just get the last TEMSI map and see how many jet streams you have over your head any day) and where the particle would most likely not go back to the ground before months if not years. Would you spread chemicals over london, it would end up being sent to the sahara or even japan in one or two days, and won't even go to the ground before days or weeks. And trust me, if someone was able to create a model of those winds precise enough to play with them so well, the commercial airlines would be the first using them because of the $$$ involved in their operations and fuel calculations !

Also, oh surprise, you see more trails over a city than anywhere else. Well, that's because planes are supposed to converge to the airports built next to cities, not in the middle of a human desert.

Climate control is studied yes, but then again, it's way more effective to study it with your own fleet of planes than do it with commercial planes. If you saw how many times we change aircraft because it doesn't meet a requirement for passenger transport for the day (for example : one mandatory light is missing and we are flying at night so we chose another aircraft) you wouldn't rely on that only ! Also, a plane can fly in a country for a few days, and the next ones it's gonna fly in the other side of Europe, because it's how it is.

You can read arguments like "after the chemtrail was created, clouds were formed, it's totally a proof of climate control here !". Well, cumulus types of clouds are created because of contrast. The simple fact a forest is darker than the grass next to it creates a contrast high enough for the sunlight to heat it more, making it a source of hotter air compared to the grass, making air on top of it climb and create a cloud when the conditions are met, that's what gliders use daily to navigate and keep in the air. So a contrail made of several hundreds of centigrade degrees air can give enough energy to start the process of cloud formation after half an hour if the conditions are met.

Last but not least, many natural phenomenons are unknown in the atmosphere, and some lead to classifying an UFO encounter (I mean, officially, and air traffic controllers and pilots are "trained" in considering normal to report the sight of something they can't identify, to gather information and ultimately research its origin for better comprehension of phenomenons). Unknown and rare ice accretion in the higher atmosphere that would differ from normal contrails have been reported and half-studied, for example.

People who believe this shit usually are dumb enough to search signs where there aren't. So many pentacle pictures made of contrails in the air. As if 3000 planes flying at the same time wouldn't be enough statistically to draw a pentacle once in a while in the air ! Or "look, this company has chemtrails in its logo". Why the fuck would a secret instigation give direct clues about its secret activity in something as obvious as a logo ?

The reason why I wanted to rant about that, is because I have been amazed at the number of people who believe this shit, on facebook, on forums, even in some of my contacts who read it one day in some stupid website and believed it right away. It's totally a professional deformation (if ever the expression exists in english) from me but it annoys the fuck out of me knowing people think such a dumb thing is true, or even occasionally call me a liar. So because I am bored after running outside for an hour and resting, I wanted to do it here. And whoever still think I'm part of the conspiracy after reading me can just gtfo and fill his ass up with whatever he finds there.

Also, last thing : I don't say it has never been done on older planes but, no, modern planes don't release piss/poo in the air (I actually just read someone stating it might be the explanation of some chemtrails)

(excuse mistakes, didn't care too much for them while writing at first)
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Old May 18th, 2012, 02:54 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Old May 18th, 2012, 03:04 PM   #3 (permalink)
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TL/DR. But most likely I agree with you.

I get annoyed pretty quick when some moron spouts wacko my way.
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Old May 18th, 2012, 03:30 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Old May 18th, 2012, 03:46 PM   #5 (permalink)
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It's worrying that you even needed to write that.

Reminded me of:


Quote:
My point is to emphasize the atmosphere is complex and constantly changing.
And this reminded me of (long and serious talk, but very good):

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Old May 18th, 2012, 05:04 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeSedna View Post
I'm sick of seeing so many conspiracy theorists talking about this. So in case there are people on this board agreeing with this theory, I'm gonna clarify this.

Chemtrails don't exist, period.

I know this shit, and whoever say I'm lying, am part of the conspiracy, or whatever, is invited to either come to a cockpit when he will be in Europe because here it is possible in some airlines (I know for Air France it's pretty easy, don't know for others, in mine it's not possible though because of stupid UK/USA regulations) to do so, and see that we just do our job which is not spraying chemicals over houses but fly an airplane from point A to point B.

A contrail is the trail created by water condensation (it's pretty cold up there) of the particles rejected by the engines. The air is so pure up there that water cannot condensate until it finds something to "stick" on which happens to be exhausted with it at the same time because exhaust contain both water and carbon particles, so when there are jet engine exhaust available, chemistry rules makes water jump on those and condensate. It's a cloud, for being made of water in majority. It can also be only pure water which would sublimate but condensate. Both ways (could be both at the same time which is more likely to happen) lead to something similar to a cirrus cloud (but technically different because of a different formation process), which at this altitude is made of ice and not droplets of water.

This is a very difficult thing to study, because it happens only in low pressure, low temperature, and therefore high altitude. For being so high in the sky, it's a tough process to get information about it. Hence why even if we know why and how it does form, we can't predict it, and still don't get the whole number of equations going on. Some days it will happen at 20 000 feet, some days at 30 000 and it's impossible to predict.

Now you add that the atmosphere is VERY instable. Sometimes we get a temperature inversion, which means that contrary to usually, at some point in the altitude, the temperature increases instead of dropping. This usually causes the vertical movement of the atmosphere to stop at this very precise change of temperature because a lot of things depend on that (one of them being the fact that since hotter air is less dense, it rises over cold air. and because it encounters hotter air while climbing, it stops there because it's now the cold air relatively to the air over it. so if it had visible moisture with it, the cloud forming vertically stop at this altitude).

Also the conditions can vary horizontally, the wind can turn by 180 degrees in less than a few dozen miles (usually creates a lot of turbulences by friction), even though usually these concern low winds. It also can become drier, or colder, in a little distance. When you get over complex terrain, it can also change every hundreds of feet horizontally.

Why am I talking about that ? My point is to emphasize the atmosphere is complex and constantly changing.

Now take a plane, make it climb. At some point it will create a contrail. It will look like chemicals for those who trust in it, but guess what, it is water that you see. And it will look like someone hit the "ON" button, but it's nothing else than entering in a part of the atmosphere where the requirements are met.

Because of differences horizontally as well, you can see it start and stop and start again, for the same reasons.

People say there are contrails and chemtrails, and will showcase pictures of one vs the other to make their point and prove these are different. They understand the concept of contrail, but think the big contrails, or the one that are flat or not consistent, are chemtrails. They simply fail, and just see in it what pleases them to see.

What they believe is a chemtrail, is just a contrail that is spraid an uneven way.

Take a bowl of red paint and unload it in a calm river. You will see a peaceful line of red paint. Now do it when the river is crazy, it will be a bit messy. this is the same in the air, that's why people think sometimes there are chemrails because there is a big line that stayed for half an hour and became fat and flat and uneven and spread over the next hours. That is just a gradient of speed, vertically, of the winds at this altitude. If the wind at 30 000 ft is 20kt and the one at 30 010 is 20.1kt, over the time a contrail created at 30 000 ft would spread even more than normally and will appear uneven, because it has an height.

People also show on youtube videos a plane having a contrail and then, intermitently, "releasing a -poof- of chemicals and then it starting the release of chemtrails". That is just the conditions of the atmostphere being just in the edge of condensation, and as you fly through that, you will have an ON/OFF phenomenon until you are for good in the conditions of thick contrails. Without climbing, just because the atmosphere just lost the 0.01 degree it needed to have water become visible by condensating. Or the 0.5% of moisture. Or the 0.1 hPa of pressure.

So until now all I have seen on pictures or youtube videos are normal contrails that are just following the unstable flow of the winds at their altitude !

The best part is that in those videos you can clearly see those supposed chemtrails originating from the engines. I have studied the schematics of my engine well enough to be able to see if there were a chemical pipe hidden by some conspiracy group during the assembly of the plane, and where the hell would they store enough of this chemicals, it's already hard to fill a plane of fuel because of the passengers weight ! And I have an eye on the ground staff and I don't see any of them approaching my engines !

Now, YES those contrails have an impact on the ground, because they are like a cirrus cloud high in the sky when the air is so pure than the sun rays are the most easily affected by albedo change. They can be a few dozen of meters wide at creation, way more after some time, half transparent for the sun, so it's like a little cloud that would give you shadow for some time, usually almost nothing though. Some people study this impact globally on the scale of the planet because there are thousands of plane at the same time in the air, but I don't see how this can be of a notable impact unless the number of planes is multiplied by a massive number. Any cumulonimbus cloud is billions of time more massive and powerful than the contrails of a whole fleet united, and has the (heat exchange/kinetic/electrostatic) energy power of a few modern nuclear nukes.

Another thing : if you see a circle in the air, it's nothing else than a plane holding over a point and doing sort of an hippodrome, usually flown in time (in the low part of the atmosphere : 1mn a turn, 1mn the straight line, making it a 4mn hippodrome). It is not because someone is spreading his thing.

If you see a lot of lines in parallel, these are either planes using different routes from the same VOR (a type of beacon) that look parallel to you. Or they aren't using routes but are what we call "vectored" by the traffic control, which means they are given headings instead of routes, for example to avoid a risk of collision. "turn right heading xxx degrees" is a common instruction in the air, and the more planes in the same area, the more the control give us headings and control how we fly. Also, 3 planes can be following the same route at the same time but at several levels. It happened to me several times. From the ground people would think we are flying together and spreading our stuff a military way, but the truth is I'm going to Eindhoven and my friend 2000ft lower is going to Munich.

Last thing, but this is RARE and usually a bad sign, some planes can jettison their own fuel in the air, in case they need to lower their weight. Mine can't, because it is so powerful than even with one single engine it meets all legal requirement of vertical climb ability, and also because the maximum certified landing weight is high and so close to the maximum take off weight that even in case of emergency after take off at max weight, it would be an acceptable risk and law transgression to land immediately. But some can, and if the emergency is not a MAYDAY but just a non immediate risk, the captain can decide to just take his time and wait doing circles and dumping fuel to make his landing 100% normal and safe (and will avoid the legal full check of the airplane structure after landing before it's allowed to fly again). It will look messy in the air, but that is again not chemicals intended at controlling people's brains, or controlling how much water you'll get today by precipitation. This is pretty rare, because it's obviously a tremendous waste of money, and quite a dispersion of fuel in the pure atmosphere if it's done low enough to affect people. But as it is a rare event, it's totally negligeable.

I don't say warfare chemicals sprayable from the air don't exist, and WWI is enough to know it is a reality, though they are not allowed by the Geneva Convention. But it would be the most stupid way to do it like this. Why ? Because it's highly uneffective to do it at such an altitude where the wind can be as high as 100 mph (just get the last TEMSI map and see how many jet streams you have over your head any day) and where the particle would most likely not go back to the ground before months if not years. Would you spread chemicals over london, it would end up being sent to the sahara or even japan in one or two days, and won't even go to the ground before days or weeks. And trust me, if someone was able to create a model of those winds precise enough to play with them so well, the commercial airlines would be the first using them because of the $$$ involved in their operations and fuel calculations !

Also, oh surprise, you see more trails over a city than anywhere else. Well, that's because planes are supposed to converge to the airports built next to cities, not in the middle of a human desert.

Climate control is studied yes, but then again, it's way more effective to study it with your own fleet of planes than do it with commercial planes. If you saw how many times we change aircraft because it doesn't meet a requirement for passenger transport for the day (for example : one mandatory light is missing and we are flying at night so we chose another aircraft) you wouldn't rely on that only ! Also, a plane can fly in a country for a few days, and the next ones it's gonna fly in the other side of Europe, because it's how it is.

You can read arguments like "after the chemtrail was created, clouds were formed, it's totally a proof of climate control here !". Well, cumulus types of clouds are created because of contrast. The simple fact a forest is darker than the grass next to it creates a contrast high enough for the sunlight to heat it more, making it a source of hotter air compared to the grass, making air on top of it climb and create a cloud when the conditions are met, that's what gliders use daily to navigate and keep in the air. So a contrail made of several hundreds of centigrade degrees air can give enough energy to start the process of cloud formation after half an hour if the conditions are met.

Last but not least, many natural phenomenons are unknown in the atmosphere, and some lead to classifying an UFO encounter (I mean, officially, and air traffic controllers and pilots are "trained" in considering normal to report the sight of something they can't identify, to gather information and ultimately research its origin for better comprehension of phenomenons). Unknown and rare ice accretion in the higher atmosphere that would differ from normal contrails have been reported and half-studied, for example.

People who believe this shit usually are dumb enough to search signs where there aren't. So many pentacle pictures made of contrails in the air. As if 3000 planes flying at the same time wouldn't be enough statistically to draw a pentacle once in a while in the air ! Or "look, this company has chemtrails in its logo". Why the fuck would a secret instigation give direct clues about its secret activity in something as obvious as a logo ?

The reason why I wanted to rant about that, is because I have been amazed at the number of people who believe this shit, on facebook, on forums, even in some of my contacts who read it one day in some stupid website and believed it right away. It's totally a professional deformation (if ever the expression exists in english) from me but it annoys the fuck out of me knowing people think such a dumb thing is true, or even occasionally call me a liar. So because I am bored after running outside for an hour and resting, I wanted to do it here. And whoever still think I'm part of the conspiracy after reading me can just gtfo and fill his ass up with whatever he finds there.

Also, last thing : I don't say it has never been done on older planes but, no, modern planes don't release piss/poo in the air (I actually just read someone stating it might be the explanation of some chemtrails)

(excuse mistakes, didn't care too much for them while writing at first)
Sweeeeeeet. I've got an exam on that shit on monday haha!
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Old May 18th, 2012, 06:48 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Aha really ? On what precisely ? Don't take any of what I said as scientific resource I don't have a meteorologist degree
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Old May 19th, 2012, 01:21 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I'm sorry you're part o the conspiracy!
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Old May 19th, 2012, 02:51 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeSedna View Post
Aha really ? On what precisely ? Don't take any of what I said as scientific resource I don't have a meteorologist degree
I'm taking a physics module called weather and the environment, lots of stuff to do with cloud formation, temperature inversions etc. I'm horrifically unprepared so I don't really know what I'm talking about, but everything you said seems to match with the lecture notes.
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Old May 19th, 2012, 04:49 AM   #10 (permalink)
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If ever you have the chance, buy an meteorology ATPL module book. The Air Transport Pilot License is made of 14 modules and one of them is Meteo, it might be interesting because everything is well explained and intended at having a general understanding (it's designed for pilots so there are some calculation to support the explanations but at the end of the day it's made to understand what is going on)
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Old May 19th, 2012, 04:55 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaomao View Post
I'm sorry you're part o the conspiracy!
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You know what you have to do now
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Old May 19th, 2012, 05:14 AM   #12 (permalink)
drew_drummer
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Gareth would be all over this shit if he were still around!!
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Old May 19th, 2012, 12:29 PM   #13 (permalink)
Mutant
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The best logical argument against the conspiracy is that they are visible to naked eye...

Any "shady NWO organization" that would use a clearly visible method to spray people with poison would be very very very very stupid.

It is easy enough to take a plane with some very simple scientific equipment (a way to first capture some air in the contrail and then close the container tight) and fly into such contrail, then analyze the sample in a mass spectrometer.

There are much better methods to poison people on a mass scale.
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Old May 19th, 2012, 03:16 PM   #14 (permalink)
LeSedna
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Yes and using a mass spectrometer is one of the simplest things ever and it would be easy to identify anything that is not H20 + carbon exhaust (+ whatever the engines exhaust) but you know the litany...

- "Yeah but that only proves THIS plane is not spraying chemicals, what about another one ? You didn't prove we are wrong"
- "The results are corrupted by the government !"
- "They don't hide it because people have their eyes closed and believe what they are told"
- "You think you know better but you only learned what are in books that they have written their way so that you don't see the evidence"
- ...

I should not care about those people, and I don't, but there is always one day when pure ignorance annoys me so much, not only on this subject but oh well... Last year on one of the videos showing what a videocam captured from the upper stage of a rocket lauched to space (wonderful view of the ground, the trail, the altitude, the release of the different boosters and lower stages until space etc) there were this christian guy who believed all was a mascarade and computer generated and we were fools for believing we actually go to space etc. I couldn't resist out of curiosity to try to see his argumentation, and I lost an evening showing him pieces of evidence one after the other until I finally got bored and realize I was hitting a waterfall of bullshit with a stick.

btw @atheist that TED video was very interesting eventhough it took 18mn to explain something that doesn't need so much imo. It led me to other videos, I think I'm gonna post a thread on it since they are related to music and were exceptional imo !
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Old May 23rd, 2012, 06:34 AM   #15 (permalink)
kaomao
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this thread has some conspiracies going on, another post I made here has been deleted lol
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Old May 23rd, 2012, 06:47 AM   #16 (permalink)
LeSedna
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^ ahah, the UM servers have migrated 2 days ago, there has been some issues with a few threads and some posts have disappeared
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Old May 23rd, 2012, 06:54 AM   #17 (permalink)
Mattayus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drew_drummer View Post
Gareth would be all over this shit if he were still around!!
You make it sound like he died
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they should have named the album "shit sandwich"
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not possible...that would imply that the shit is surrounded by something that's not shit
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Old May 23rd, 2012, 07:10 AM   #18 (permalink)
John_C
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atheist View Post
That nozzle design bit is what i'm doing my masters on, evolutionary design/computation. That talk is exactly what i've been thinking for a long time.
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