Save the planet!!! Stop global warming!!!

[TravisW]

Originally Posted by Erik Tiwaz

and the gas prices is around $2.40USD (12NOK)), and with all the extra taxes on the usage of it, its a non-priority for me, I live in a city anyway...

Fa'n i helvete! I never thought I'd see the day that Norway had cheaper gas than the USA...or is that not counting taxes?

Snus around here is generally about $5 for a can. I should order some General online--from what i remember, that was pretty tasty stuff. Around here, it's Copenhagen and Copenhagen--I can't stand the other crap.

As far as whaling--it's not like they're out there harpooning Blue Whales or anything. It's the Minke whale, which is pretty numerous and taken in fairly limited numbers (at least by Norway). As it's pretty numerous, it can be a detriment to the cod industry, which is pretty overfished as it is. At last that's part of the "official reason" for doing it. I'd just as soon the whalers all came to North Dakota and shot whitetail deer. They're like fleas on a mangy dog around here.

[Erik Tiwaz]

Originally Posted by TravisW

Fa'n i helvete! I never thought I'd see the day that Norway had cheaper gas than the USA...or is that not counting taxes?

$2.40 Pr. litre, not gallon...., and yesterday the price for diesel was around $2.70

[Erik Tiwaz]

Originally Posted by Øjeblikket

Please provide the statistical proof that shows beyond a doubt that whales will excessively populate themselves beyond the food source upon which they thrive without human intervention controlling the whale population.


Whales, getting out of hand? really dude?

Norway hunts Northern Minke Whale primarily.
In 2004, the total population of Minke Whales was estimated to be around 184 000 (IWCSC) in the Central and North East Atlantic. The Minke Whales in the Southern Hemisphere was estimated to 760 000 animals in the early 1990's (the IWCSC has since revised that number to be around 50% lower).
In 2006 Norway's quota was set (by the IWC) to 1052 animals, of which Norway took 546 animals.
So to say that this type of whale is under threat of extinction is ignorant at best. Norway taxes these animals under the flag of Scientific Research purposes, that it is also a means of controlling the number of Minke Whales in the Norwegian fishing-zone is a given, but not a very popular version of the truth in the highly tabloid political climate we have in the western part of the world. Whaling itself is NOT big business for Norway, but indirectly for the fishing industry it is important, which in turn is important for Norway.
The numbers and scientific data you are looking for is probably available on the internet, why not make an effort and go google it, dude....

[Chairman Kaga]

I don't really make any effort to save the planet, but I do recycle for some change.

[asgeir]

Originally Posted by The Grand Design

May I ask where the second quote in your signature came from?

Spiral Architect video on Youtube.

[TravisW]

Originally Posted by Erik Tiwaz

$2.40 Pr. litre, not gallon...., and yesterday the price for diesel was around $2.70

Oh yeah, had a minor brainfart there. Nice thing in Norway is that you can actually get places without driving (unlike some parts of the USA).

[Defiance]

Originally Posted by Chairman Kaga

I don't really make any effort to save the planet, but I do recycle for some change.

Tyr got a bit angry up there .

Oh well I guess 'tis ok then, it seems like the reindeer thing in the US, that if they're not killed they'd totally get out of control.

So it's all the Japs fault, damn them .

It's funny because they seem to be more conscious about what they're doing nowadays, but obviously not many people think that for a change to happen .

I remember that when there were some protests here against illegal fishing and stuff, the representative of Japan in CR was asked: "Why do you kill so many whales?" and he answered: "It's in our culture, and you can't do anything about it."

Right..., cuuuuulture. It does count, but it's really a lame excuse, it's for MONEY; obtained in a nearly totally illegal way, because you have the Japs fishing out of their waters. Curse 'em!

Also, if you have the chance, you should see the documentary "Shark Water." Most of the movie concerns CR and their politics and Taiwanese mafia, so do check it out .

http://www.sharkwater.com/

[The Grand Design]

I think that we'll be able to colonize other planets far sooner than it will take for us to destroy our own. We are a viral race in some respect, so we'll end up exploring the galaxies and finding an infinite number of planets on which to reside.

[Astral and Arcane]

Originally Posted by Rivfadír

They're just whales.

This makes me feel

[Rivfadír]

Originally Posted by Astral and Arcane

This makes me feel

I'm just sick of being told to care about stuff. I try my best to make this world a better place, and no, I don't think they should be hunted to extinction. I just don't really care enough to get involved.

And you should read the post I made before the other one. It's on the previous page.

[Øjeblikket]

Originally Posted by Erik Tiwaz

Whaling itself is NOT big business for Norway, but indirectly for the fishing industry it is important, which in turn is important for Norway.

Which is to say, indirectly, that the trouble with whales is the threat they pose to the livelihood of the humans which assume to control the number of the whales' population for the sake of the livelihood of humans. The whales themselves are no more living out of hand than the fish upon which they would thrive.

[Øjeblikket]

Originally Posted by Erik Tiwaz

Norway hunts Northern Minke Whale primarily.
In 2004, the total population of Minke Whales was estimated to be around 184 000 (IWCSC) in the Central and North East Atlantic. The Minke Whales in the Southern Hemisphere was estimated to 760 000 animals in the early 1990's (the IWCSC has since revised that number to be around 50% lower).
In 2006 Norway's quota was set (by the IWC) to 1052 animals, of which Norway took 546 animals.
So to say that this type of whale is under threat of extinction is ignorant at best.

This total number of whales versus those killed doesn't dismiss the problem of the whales not being out of hand. Out of hand would mean the whales were consuming more fish than is deemed necessary for their simple survival; that their pod(s) were growing, increasingly, in greater proportion to the fish upon which they would thrive.

[pancreator]

there are two reasons why i do not really care (in the meaning of worry) about this problem any longer.

1.Lots of people say, that man is the only being changing the environment so radical. thats wrong.
in the beginning of life there was no oxygen in the atmosphere. the mainpart came with the first cells doing photosynthesis and at this time oxygen was pure poison to all existing lifeforms because of its aggressiveness. that was a pretty critical moment in the history of life until that moment, when the first cells "learned" how to use oxygen. well, nowadays nearly all life on this planet is based on oxygen.

2.

Originally Posted by wikipedia

Reversal Magnetostratigraphy examines the periodical polarity reversion of the Earth's magnetic field. The reversals have occurred at irregular intervals throughout the Earth's history. The age and pattern of these reversals is known from the study of sea floor spreading zones and the dating of volcanic rocks.

(english wiki-version)
and on:

based on reconstructions of the paleomagnetism we know, that the earths magnetic field is changed in a cyclus of about 250 000 years. but the last one is about 780 000 years ago.(so its high time for a new one) it takes between 4000 - 10000 years until the process is done. At the moment the magnetic field becomes weaker and with more solar wind on earth there will be more mutations, what makes it important for evolution.

(translated from german wiki, not very good, i know...)

and btw, it will be warmer, even without the co2-lie.

im pretty sure that life will make its way, with or without us. and as long as the most products available in western civilisation and anywhere else are based on murder and mistreatment of parts of our own race, theres no hope for whales, because imo these two problems go hand in hand.

have a nice day.

[pancreator]

Originally Posted by TravisW

Nice thing in Norway is that you can actually get places without driving (unlike some parts of the USA).

[Defiance]

Originally Posted by pancreator

there are two reasons why i do not really care (in the meaning of worry) about this problem any longer.

1.Lots of people say, that man is the only being changing the environment so radical. thats wrong.
in the beginning of life there was no oxygen in the atmosphere. the mainpart came with the first cells doing photosynthesis and at this time oxygen was pure poison to all existing lifeforms because of its aggressiveness. that was a pretty critical moment in the history of life until that moment, when the first cells "learned" how to use oxygen. well, nowadays nearly all life on this planet is based on oxygen.

2. (english wiki-version)
and on:
(translated from german wiki, not very good, i know...)

and btw, it will be warmer, even without the co2-lie.

im pretty sure that life will make its way, with or without us. and as long as the most products available in western civilisation and anywhere else are based on murder and mistreatment of parts of our own race, theres no hope for whales, because imo these two problems go hand in hand.

have a nice day.

Interesting, yet wikipedia is not a reliable source, so well, you've got no point there.

The point also is, how much more "life" will go on, if we humans are destroying most of it?

[pancreator]

to write this post i used wiki as source to have it easier, but i have also sources in good old paper-format

i knew first about the story with magnetic field and then i searched the article in wiki.

youre free to take a look in corresponding scientist-pages. i guess im too lazy to google for the rest of the day...

[pancreator]

Originally Posted by Defiance

The point also is, how much more "life" will go on, if we humans are destroying most of it?

its not possible to erase ALL life as long as the planet doesnt explode in million of pieces.
but if most of life is destroyed, maybe we humans will vanish too, so the next generation of evolution will have it better and easier.

(and we will be the winners of the universal charles-darwin-awards, hahaha)

[Erik Tiwaz]

Originally Posted by Øjeblikket

This total number of whales versus those killed doesn't dismiss the problem of the whales not being out of hand. Out of hand would mean the whales were consuming more fish than is deemed necessary for their simple survival; that their pod(s) were growing, increasingly, in greater proportion to the fish upon which they would thrive.

You're actually wrong. Out of hand in this instance means that you have to include the human factor, whales are not alone in the sea, we are harvesting the sea for Cod which eat Krill which in turn is one of the main food sources of the Minke Whale.
We will always have to keep mans interest before that of the whale, plain and simple. Whales are traditionally at the top of the foodchain in the oceans, it will probably have little or no consequence to the survival of life in the oceans if they do go extinct (yeah, I know that may seem to be a cold thing to say, but nevertheless, the fact remains.).

[FailingAcension]

Close to the top.....Sharks will gang up on them and eat them sometimes. I say we ban sharks.

[Isjungfrun]

Lets ban water.

You Tube

[Defiance]

^ I love that guy, what's his name?

[Qu Appelle]

[quote=Isjungfrun;7213942]Lets ban water.

Only if we leave the ice alone.

[Øjeblikket]

Originally Posted by Erik Tiwaz

You're actually wrong. Out of hand in this instance means that you have to include the human factor, whales are not alone in the sea, we are harvesting the sea for Cod which eat Krill which in turn is one of the main food sources of the Minke Whale.
We will always have to keep mans interest before that of the whale, plain and simple. Whales are traditionally at the top of the foodchain in the oceans, it will probably have little or no consequence to the survival of life in the oceans if they do go extinct (yeah, I know that may seem to be a cold thing to say, but nevertheless, the fact remains.).

Wouldn't that open up the possibility that humans are getting out of hand?

We have a similar event occurring here, though its argument is ultimately different than the one you raise:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/11/us/11whale.html

SEATTLE, Sept. 10 — The gray whale, harpooned and shot many times, lies dead at the bottom of the ocean somewhere in the Strait of Juan de Fuca.

[...]

On Sunday, the hunt leader, Wayne Johnson, told The Seattle Times that he was unapologetic and in fact wished that he had done it sooner. Mr. Johnson was among the hunters who killed a whale in the 1999 hunt.

The argument here is not, I believe, that humans would profit from the hunt in as much as it is that the hunt itself represents something sacred and essentially necessary.

It strikes me as nonetheless cavemanish/redneckish.

The whales are not the ones that are over the top.

[Erik Tiwaz]

Originally Posted by Øjeblikket

Wouldn't that open up the possibility that humans are getting out of hand?

In numbers? No. In their acts? Possibly in most other instances other than whaling.

Originally Posted by Øjeblikket

We have a similar event occurring here, though its argument is ultimately different than the one you raise:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/11/us/11whale.html


Quote:
SEATTLE, Sept. 10 — The gray whale, harpooned and shot many times, lies dead at the bottom of the ocean somewhere in the Strait of Juan de Fuca.

[...]

On Sunday, the hunt leader, Wayne Johnson, told The Seattle Times that he was unapologetic and in fact wished that he had done it sooner. Mr. Johnson was among the hunters who killed a whale in the 1999 hunt.
The argument here is not, I believe, that humans would profit from the hunt in as much as it is that the hunt itself represents something sacred and essentially necessary.

It strikes me as nonetheless cavemanish/redneckish.

I think the action that those men did, was more of a protest against the U.S goverment's policy of barring the traditions and taking away the rights of the natives. That a few native tribes here and there hunt for a few specimens of whales should not be a problem.

And shouldn't a U.S governor know the difference between a species and a specimen....?

[Defiance]

Originally Posted by Erik Tiwaz

In numbers? No. In their acts? Possibly in most other instances other than whaling.

Now with this first statement I totally disagree. Don't you think that 6 billion+ people is more than enough?

Maybe you don't see that because you live in Norge and you have about 4 million+ people in a very big territory. However, Costa Rica has more people than Norge and in a much smaller portion of land. That's when you really start noticing the over-population. Or just look at China d'oh.
We humans are more than out of hand, really. I can't believe there are people that even nowadays think that we're not.
And with the acts, well we are humans so we are stupid and make stupid things by nature, and this is more than evident nowadays.

Earth not over-populated . So what is over-populated for you? Sky-high buildings that fill the Earth with nothing more on it?

You know about the food crisis? That's, in a way, due to over-population. All the changes that are happening happen because the Earth can't simply sustain so many (greedy) humans.