Evergrey = Prog???????

[Strychnos]

slightly off-topic:

people often try to lump certain stimuli into categories so that each stimuli does not get classified as a unique instance, thereby saving the brain unwanted stress.

... (anyone into Cognitive Psychology? i don't remember my lessons there, so I mightve goofed up on some points. Comments are welcome on that light.)

on topic: They're metal, without a doubt. they just like mixing it up a lot. which keeps them hella fresh. ^_^

[SirJuzzi]

Definetely Evergrey is more prog than power metal. I'd not still say it even prog, because it's not that complicated. But power metal is more straight-forward stuff with high-pitched vocals, and that definition doesn't really fit Evergrey, or what?

If you have to describe Evergrey's music to someone, it would be best to just say it's dark metal, with mid tempo, melodies and ballsy vocals. That gives a better picture of what they are like than a desperate categorizing.

[PesticideDrinker]

Evergrey is power metal. Period. They're just heavier for a european power metal band.

Power metal isn't always just classified as high pitched vocals and such. On the American side of power metal, you have:

Iced Earth

Jag Panzer

Symphony X - yes, I consider them power, not prog...their sound has hardly progressed at all from album to album, coupled with the typical fantasy-based lyrics of power metal

Having said that, I don't see why Evergrey aren't power metal. They certainly have that melodic component to them and choirs singing from time to time. And I fail to see them as prog metal in any way.

[SickBoy]

Power metal is one of the most confusing genres IMO.
Once it was reffering to the bands such as Pantera, then Nevermore, then all of the sudden some brainiac thought it would aptly describe bands such as Stratovarius and their Xth clone...Then some tend to describe Jag Panzer and Iced Earth by that term. I mean, come on, decide already! Power metal is very meaningless description for any band...
Evergrey can't really be shoved into a category, since they fuse several metal genres and it would be best to describe them as Evergrey, a unique metal band! After all the soundalike bands that have flooded the metal scene, I suppose it's tough for people to accept the fact that someone in the crowd stands out like Evergrey....

[PesticideDrinker]

Originally Posted by SickBoy

Power metal is one of the most confusing genres IMO.
Once it was reffering to the bands such as Pantera, then Nevermore, then all of the sudden some brainiac thought it would aptly describe bands such as Stratovarius and their Xth clone...Then some tend to describe Jag Panzer and Iced Earth by that term. I mean, come on, decide already! Power metal is very meaningless description for any band...

I agree that power metal is sometimes a broad term, but it usually describes bands influenced heavily by the Priest or Maiden sound (basically the NWOBHM sound). American power metal can be thrashier, but it's still power metal. There is a lot of Iced Earth material that is clearly power, even if it has a thrashy edge to it. And Jag Panzer is 100% power...heck, their links section on their site gives links to strictly power metal bands, if they're not power metal, I don't know what is.

But I'll agree that when I hear bands like Nevermore being called power metal, I guess it's stretching it a bit. Evergrey too, I guess. Still, I consider Evergrey to just cross the line of being power metal.

[Polyeidus]

I hate these threads, but they always suck me in.

He asked, so... prog, sure.

I tend to associate time signatures other than 4/4 in songs of a metal nature with prog. That may be wrong of me but, what the hell. I said it. I always thought the band Tool sounded kinda proggish, but everyone assures me they are not.

Evergrey rocks.

[SickBoy]

Originally Posted by Polyeidus

I tend to associate time signatures other than 4/4 in songs of a metal nature with prog. That may be wrong of me but, what the hell.

Here's why I DON'T take odd measures as prog for granted...

"Progressive" IMO should be about musical exploration, venturing into the unknown, breaking the rules and daring to do what others don't. Odd time signatures are old news, the way Evergrey uses them is nothing new under the sun, the same goes for the style of riffing similar to that at the beginning of Ambassador... That's not prog for me, it's been done a thousand times before. I'd rather think of bands such as ACT, Spock's Beard or Pain Of Salvation as the real progressive music, since they really do some quirky stuff and don't have any boundaries in expressing themselves. Hell, the famous Dream Theater stopped being progressive a long time ago, I feel as if they're recycling some mathematical riffing for the last 2 albums... The term "progressive" somewhat looses its purpose when associated to the immense amount of DT influenced bands... It's more being associated with technical playing, which by itself I don't consider to be progressive, just technical.
Steve Vai's a progressive musician, he's full of weird and unusual ideas!

[Polyeidus]

[quote=SickBoy]Here's why I DON'T take odd measures as prog for granted...

QUOTE]

But if it's what we know to be, say, prog metal... you have to admit it. Now there are all kinds of styles in prog, and too many bands are prog wether they mean to be, or just are because of their innovations.

Good grief, I hate getting sucked into this stuff, lol.

Frankly, IMO, what you said about the musical boundries was a wide open statement. I know how prog started, but where it is today is something much harder for everyone to put their fingers on. You know?

Personally, I don't see anything wrong with some thinking one thing while others think another. Maybe this is why prog as a whole is so important. People love it but don't, and will never know, exactly what it is, other than they dig it!

Most that have been around know what's supposed to be this or isn't supposed to be that, but nine times out of ten, it never falls comfortably into one genre or another. I think it may take some kind of chosen one in the future to take a look back and scribe what is what and what is not.

[turke]

"Dark and Melodic Progressive metal". I think this one fits them.

[Metaltastic]

Godammit, I know it's been stated, but I just have to reaffirm what my distinguished colleagues have said: wanking and time signature changes are not the only elements that make a prog band! Personally, I think Symphony X is incredibly cheesy and just awful, though then again, I detest any and all power metal with the exception of Sonata Arctica and Kamelot's two recent albums (anything before Karma was just unlistenable). Jordan Rudess has absolutely ruined Dream Theater because of his maddeningly stupid and obnoxiuos solos, combined with his utterly beaten to death progressions and quirky little sounds. Dream Theater = FORSAKEN. And just look at Queensryche's "Operation: Mindcrime," easily one of my favorite CD's of all time; you don't see any little "hey look at me, I woodshed endlessly and have no friends!" gimmicks, and yet you'd have to be crazy to dispute it as a legendary PROG album. The same can be said for any Rush release.

As for Everygrey, I have In Search of Truth and Recreation Day, and I can definately say they are dark prog-power, because of the occasional stereotypical prog element of the time signatures and technicality but far more importantly because they utterly sidestep the idiotic stereotypes of power metal (retarded lyrics, dull riffs written with no understanding that the guitar doesn't always have to dominate, and just generally bad songs) and still maintain singing vocals. Tom Englund gets a bit melodramatic at times, but he's still damn good and I'm told a very intelligent and personable guy.

[Polyeidus]

Originally Posted by Metaltastic

Godammit, I know it's been stated, but I just have to reaffirm what my distinguished colleagues have said: wanking and time signature changes are not the only elements that make a prog band!

As for Everygrey, I have In Search of Truth and Recreation Day, and I can definately say they are dark prog-power, because of the occasional stereotypical prog element of the time signatures and technicality but far more importantly because they utterly sidestep the idiotic stereotypes of power metal (retarded lyrics, dull riffs written with no understanding that the guitar doesn't always have to dominate, and just generally bad songs) and still maintain singing vocals.

I find it interesting you chose to use the word 'stereotypical' in your arguement. Most like prog for it's stereotypical sound anyway. They don't know that prog isn't limited to wanking and technicality. And I don't think there's any reason to fret over the whole thing either. Arguements over it, as I have found, always end up in the same place. Nowhere. For the most part I bet the people that just dig the music, if asked what prog metal/rock is in a nutshell, would use the same stereotypical definition. It's annoying sometimes, yes... but at least they are listening and enjoying music other than the top 40 shite.


P.S. You don't like power metal because you just don't like it. Are you saying those that do are all idiots? lol