Poking Holes in High-Gain Guitars - Case-in-Point Tutorial - Page 2

TheDude · February 20th, 2012, 04:20 PM

Have you tried to boost at 1600Hz instead, that seems to be the only frequency left.

I get exhausted by just looking at the (almost complete) signal chain.

Habsburgs · February 20th, 2012, 05:21 PM

sh*t ermz

thats a shiiit load of eqing

C_F_H_13 · February 20th, 2012, 05:52 PM

Just curious, but are you doing all this processing in the mix, or is any of it in solo?

EDIT***

Also this makes me feel alot better about how much "work" I gotta do with guitars. Glad to know other people do have to EQ like crazy sometimes too.

Ermz · February 20th, 2012, 08:36 PM

I'm constantly switching between mix and solo while EQing.

It's interesting that many of you find this to be a lot of processing on guitars. It's only a fraction of what I have to do on most projects.

mva801 · February 20th, 2012, 08:46 PM

Man I'd like to see one that you REALLY have to get down on.

Melb_shredder · February 20th, 2012, 11:10 PM

Nothing compared to the effort on the Orpheus album haha!Do we get to claim MOST salvaged job by ermz ever?

aviel · February 21st, 2012, 06:01 AM

any chance of posting the the proccessed and un-processed tracks soloed?
will be glad

Öwen · February 21st, 2012, 06:31 AM

^ Probably would be a bad comparison, I think a lot of guitar EQing is really about getting the gunk that collides with other stuff out the way, and that does make the guitars sound thinner soloed against the original even if they are much more rounded.

At the end of the day its about getting them to work in the mix anyway. The solo button is a bit of a devil in that regard because using it just makes you concentrate on single elements and disregard the whole picture.

aviel · February 21st, 2012, 07:04 AM

but how about all the times your hear the guitar soloed in a mix? in break or intros.. are they using another eq for that?

Wrecknine · February 21st, 2012, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikaël-ange

Really interesting read, but just for add a quick note about one thing.

In cubase, because plugin can be use in dual mono in PT.
But I'm sure you already know it

Can also be used dual mono in Cubase. I like it for using C4 multiband.

blags · February 21st, 2012, 12:03 PM

Buraz, svaka tebi čast.

Vaggelis_Revolted · February 21st, 2012, 02:17 PM

Ermz, i f@ckin love you man, no homo but i f@ckin love you!
Cheers!

drew_drummer · February 21st, 2012, 04:52 PM

Ermz... is this like, worst case scenario for you? Or do you find yourself EQing like this all the time? I'm trying to figure out whether this was due to bad recordings on the bands part, or if it's your general thing that you do? I've never EQ'd on guitars this much personally.

Jaymz · February 21st, 2012, 05:04 PM

I wanna see the Eye of The Enemy guitar chain

osum · February 22nd, 2012, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaymz

I wanna see the Eye of The Enemy guitar chain

+1

Pedro Teixeira · February 22nd, 2012, 03:51 AM

I don't get why people are so shocked. I do feel guitars need that kind of treatment as well, and what was shown in this thread is half or less than half of what I usually do. Sometimes it's not about the amount of dB your pulling, but the amount of notches etc.

Good thread Ermz, I definitely thought I was kind of alone on this

TheDude · February 22nd, 2012, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedro Teixeira

I don't get why people are so shocked. I do feel guitars need that kind of treatment as well, and what was shown in this thread is half or less than half of what I usually do. Sometimes it's not about the amount of dB your pulling, but the amount of notches etc.

Good thread Ermz, I definitely thought I was kind of alone on this

So basically people record with an SM57 and you process the guitar tracks into a LDC combined with a ribbon?

Sorry, carry on.

Ermz · February 22nd, 2012, 07:48 AM

I'll quote something from the original guide, which will hopefully put some of this discussion to rest.

Quote:

Ultimately all you can do in mixing with guitars is to reveal that inherent character in its pristine form. You do this by subtracting the junk. If the raw sound is bad, then your final sound will also be bad. Guitars are notoriously poor at taking processing. Second perhaps only to vocals in this area, they absolutely need to have a good character when raw, otherwise this entire exercise is pointless.

Quote:

Always remember, guitars take processing very poorly. So get to where you need to go in as few moves as humanly possible. Always have that in the back of your mind, reigning you in. Do more with less.

dcb · February 22nd, 2012, 08:12 AM

just to add this (a little off topic) :

if you try to make your own vocals , recorded with an sm 57 sound like, a million equalizers wont give you the sound of an u87 through a fairchild (and also people will still hear you, not whitney houston (rip).
like ermz said, its all about " revealing that inherent character in its pristine form"
in my humble opinion, a guitarsound has to be set WHILE producing a song, not in the mix.
i wasted years, trying to get my sounds to where i wanted them with eq and never got satisfied, until i found out id love my tones more if i WROTE the song with them.

Pedro Teixeira · February 22nd, 2012, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDude

So basically people record with an SM57 and you process the guitar tracks into a LDC combined with a ribbon?

Sorry, carry on.

Like I wrote on my post, I'm talking about getting rid of junk etc.. Fundamentals that cloud and/or clash against other elements and I'm not talking about notching 10dB and stuff like that.
I actually never did that, rather more precise cuts, but sometimes quite a few of them.

So no, your reply actually made no sense.

jangoux · February 22nd, 2012, 11:51 AM

Exactly. I usually do a couple of 5-6db notching to get rid of resonant areas and then a few 1-2db cuts to help it fit better on the mix.

Btw, Ermz, I am not amazed by the number of cuts you did, but how wide they were. I remember you saying on a thread a while ago you usually did a bunch of narrow cuts , but by these pics show they're a lot wider than I thought.

Nuno Filipe · February 22nd, 2012, 12:30 PM

I used 5/6 bands in last mix and I thought that was too much and were just a few cuts here and there!lol Very useful info, but I am using impulses so not that much for me. Btw the song even without vocals is awesome.

rcg · February 26th, 2012, 08:06 AM

nice EQ

Charles J · February 26th, 2012, 12:08 PM

nothing is ever too much if it sounds good in the end..... case in point, right here.

Ermz' chain looks similar to a lot of my mixes.... lot's of processing on lot's of things *where needed*.

it's all about going as far as you need to go to get it *THERE*. no worries about TOO MUCH.

it's art!

Imagine someone telling Dali that one of his works was 'too much'. hahaha, fuck that.

deffpony · March 18th, 2012, 10:28 PM

I made a thread about this but no one understand what im asking.

How do you find the right freqs to cut boost Ermz. Your tutorial is awesome, but what if my ears arent as trained as yours and I cant just know exactly what freqs needs taming. And once you find it how do you determine what Q and how much reduction to apply. Thanks in advance.

February 20th, 2012, 04:20 PM	#26 (permalink)
TheDude Jocke Skog Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Stockholm - Sweden Posts: 1,552	Have you tried to boost at 1600Hz instead, that seems to be the only frequency left. I get exhausted by just looking at the (almost complete) signal chain. __________________ Old-fat-lazy-proud. Founder, member and technical director of the band Clawfinger (http://www.clawfinger.net) I'm using awesome gear, and one day I'll list it all.

February 20th, 2012, 05:52 PM	#28 (permalink)
C_F_H_13 Protools Guru Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Canada Posts: 1,447	Just curious, but are you doing all this processing in the mix, or is any of it in solo? EDIT*** Also this makes me feel alot better about how much "work" I gotta do with guitars. Glad to know other people do have to EQ like crazy sometimes too. __________________ Ask me anything about Protools. Last edited by C_F_H_13 : February 20th, 2012 at 05:58 PM.

February 20th, 2012, 08:36 PM	#29 (permalink)
Ermz Mix Guideus Authoritus Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 19,937	I'm constantly switching between mix and solo while EQing. It's interesting that many of you find this to be a lot of processing on guitars. It's only a fraction of what I have to do on most projects. __________________

February 20th, 2012, 11:10 PM	#31 (permalink)
Melb_shredder Orpheus: Melodic Death Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Melbourne Posts: 2,476	Nothing compared to the effort on the Orpheus album haha!Do we get to claim MOST salvaged job by ermz ever? __________________ www.orpheusofficial.com/media (AUSTRALIAN MELODIC DEATH METAL) FOR MY ENGINEERING WORK: www.bluesevendesigns.com/monolith-studios www.facebook.com/monolithstudiosmelbourne

February 21st, 2012, 06:01 AM	#32 (permalink)
aviel Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 738	any chance of posting the the proccessed and un-processed tracks soloed? will be glad __________________ Aviel Nahoum Jackson DK 2M Snowhite ESP Eclipse Engl Powerball Peavy 6505 Legacy 4x12 v30 Palmer Dacappo reamp box. i do reamps, hit me up

February 20th, 2012, 08:46 PM	#30 (permalink)
mva801 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 1,164	Man I'd like to see one that you REALLY have to get down on.

February 21st, 2012, 06:31 AM	#33 (permalink)
Öwen Fendurr Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 3,038	^ Probably would be a bad comparison, I think a lot of guitar EQing is really about getting the gunk that collides with other stuff out the way, and that does make the guitars sound thinner soloed against the original even if they are much more rounded. At the end of the day its about getting them to work in the mix anyway. The solo button is a bit of a devil in that regard because using it just makes you concentrate on single elements and disregard the whole picture.

February 21st, 2012, 07:04 AM	#34 (permalink)
aviel Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 738	but how about all the times your hear the guitar soloed in a mix? in break or intros.. are they using another eq for that? __________________ Aviel Nahoum Jackson DK 2M Snowhite ESP Eclipse Engl Powerball Peavy 6505 Legacy 4x12 v30 Palmer Dacappo reamp box. i do reamps, hit me up

February 21st, 2012, 12:03 PM	#36 (permalink)
blags Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 53	Buraz, svaka tebi čast.

February 21st, 2012, 02:17 PM	#37 (permalink)
Vaggelis_Revolted Guitarist / Novice A.E. Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 108	Ermz, i f@ckin love you man, no homo but i f@ckin love you! Cheers!

February 21st, 2012, 04:52 PM	#38 (permalink)
drew_drummer Dancefap Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: London, UK Posts: 5,898	Ermz... is this like, worst case scenario for you? Or do you find yourself EQing like this all the time? I'm trying to figure out whether this was due to bad recordings on the bands part, or if it's your general thing that you do? I've never EQ'd on guitars this much personally. __________________ HOME PAGE :: BIG CARTEL :: YOUTUBE :: TWITTER :: FACEBOOK "Part doom, part sludge, part stoner, part post-rock, Exegesis is all win. It’s a marriage of inspired songwriting, highly skilled performance, and close-to-perfect production engineering.” www.nocleansinging.com

February 21st, 2012, 05:04 PM	#39 (permalink)
Jaymz Stymphalian Productions Join Date: May 2006 Location: Darlington Posts: 7,054	I wanna see the Eye of The Enemy guitar chain __________________ Schecter C1 Hellraiser & Loomis 7 FR, Gibson Explorer, LTD Explorer, Kemper Rack, EVH 5150III, Mesa Oversized 4x12, Overwater Contemporary Jazz 5 www.facebook.com/theblackstymphalian

February 22nd, 2012, 03:51 AM	#41 (permalink)
Pedro Teixeira Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: London, UK Posts: 2,537	I don't get why people are so shocked. I do feel guitars need that kind of treatment as well, and what was shown in this thread is half or less than half of what I usually do. Sometimes it's not about the amount of dB your pulling, but the amount of notches etc. Good thread Ermz, I definitely thought I was kind of alone on this __________________ http://www.facebook.com/pedrotmix pedroteixeiramusic@gmail.com

February 22nd, 2012, 08:12 AM	#44 (permalink)
dcb nerd Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 1,355	just to add this (a little off topic) : if you try to make your own vocals , recorded with an sm 57 sound like, a million equalizers wont give you the sound of an u87 through a fairchild (and also people will still hear you, not whitney houston (rip). like ermz said, its all about " revealing that inherent character in its pristine form" in my humble opinion, a guitarsound has to be set WHILE producing a song, not in the mix. i wasted years, trying to get my sounds to where i wanted them with eq and never got satisfied, until i found out id love my tones more if i WROTE the song with them.

February 22nd, 2012, 11:51 AM	#46 (permalink)
jangoux Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 1,774	Exactly. I usually do a couple of 5-6db notching to get rid of resonant areas and then a few 1-2db cuts to help it fit better on the mix. Btw, Ermz, I am not amazed by the number of cuts you did, but how wide they were. I remember you saying on a thread a while ago you usually did a bunch of narrow cuts , but by these pics show they're a lot wider than I thought. __________________ Ivan Jangoux http://listn.to/IvanJangouxProducoes Mixing, editing and drum programming - PM for quotes

February 22nd, 2012, 12:30 PM	#47 (permalink)
Nuno Filipe You talkin' to me? Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Portugal Posts: 2,007	I used 5/6 bands in last mix and I thought that was too much and were just a few cuts here and there!lol Very useful info, but I am using impulses so not that much for me. Btw the song even without vocals is awesome.

February 26th, 2012, 08:06 AM	#48 (permalink)
rcg Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 172	nice EQ __________________ ProTools HD6 Accel, Magma PE6R4, NEVE, Manley, Crane Song

March 18th, 2012, 10:28 PM	#50 (permalink)
deffpony Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 87	I made a thread about this but no one understand what im asking. How do you find the right freqs to cut boost Ermz. Your tutorial is awesome, but what if my ears arent as trained as yours and I cant just know exactly what freqs needs taming. And once you find it how do you determine what Q and how much reduction to apply. Thanks in advance.