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Old April 15th, 2012, 10:43 PM   #1 (permalink)
Plendakor
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Live reverb (volume & lenght)

Hey I'm preparing my GT-10 patches for an upcomming show and I'd like to tweak my reverbs for each tunes.

The tunes are mid-fast (145 to 210 bpm).

I don't want an "apparent" reverb but not a dry sound neither. Just like an electronic capacitor somehow, sorry for the analogy, I mean just like a crack filler you know ?

When I play lead, I usually set the reverb to (2 bars) with the volume at 2/3. Sound pretty awesome. But my question is regarding the fast riffs (on a 7 string).

There's no question of playing totally dry for me. I'm all for subtility tho

I'd read on your live experiences (preferably experienced live players or soundmen).

I need to tune that shit to the core. (And don't tell me to use my ears, I do)

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Old April 16th, 2012, 12:22 AM   #2 (permalink)
hurdy
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ummm do you use reverb live on distorted rhythm tones too??
Do you realise that live venues hav a natural reverberation already?? (so its never gona b dry)
whats your question?? how do reverb?? LOLZ
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Old April 16th, 2012, 10:03 AM   #3 (permalink)
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And you just play dry, even solos ?
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Old April 16th, 2012, 03:37 PM   #4 (permalink)
hurdy
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Yes heavy rhythms are always dry. I'll use delay for solos, but trying to fine tune everything is getting abit anal IMO
This topic is sorted in your other thread that is practically identical to this one, egan said something along the lines of: "if it sounds good then its good"
Should just bump the original thread if you still need more info rather than making a new one about the same topic
Reverb can make things drown out and hard to hear, especially if there is already natural room reverb
SO using too much will just kill the idea unless its an effect for a certain part
Now, what was the Original post question?? How to fine tune your verb to 145 - 210 bpm??
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Old April 16th, 2012, 04:45 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Reverb on guitars at live gigs = mush
I have this with indie bands at my venue all the time. No matter how much you turn them up you can never really hear what they're playing.

Reverb on heavily distorted guitars at live gigs = even more mush

Keep your rhythmns dry to make them clear and punchy and throw on some delay for your leads to make them sound epic. Job done.
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Old April 16th, 2012, 11:25 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Yeah I hate when guys use reverb at gigs outside of as an effect for specific parts. Also, the vast majority of reverb pedals and verbs on multi-effects units sound terrible.

It's more of a comfort thing for alot of guys I think, it helps hide mistakes and makes the tone more forgiving.
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Old April 17th, 2012, 12:04 AM   #7 (permalink)
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I put reverb on my rythms in my mix but well, I never played live in a metal show before and it's coming soon.

So tuning is anal ? Cool!

Yes fine tune reverb like I do for delays.. How do you set your delay, with your eyes closed listening to the sound ? It's cool, it's the old "analog" way, feeling and stuff. BUt I keep mine open and use maths For each tune a differant patch set to the exact millisecond needed for the tempo. The error margin is less than with ears only and there's not a robotic feeling to it since playing live always has an inacurracy factor so its cool.

I rather hear a great show than a soso show. People calling themselves audio "engineers" should be all about tuning the shit out since studying engineering is all about maths; don't you think ?

Thanks for your replies, I'll keep the sound dry except in solos.

But heyy audio engineering is so anal, but not in a gay way. :P

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Old April 17th, 2012, 12:24 AM   #8 (permalink)
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"I need to tune that shit to the core. (And don't tell me to use my ears, I do)"

This is what I was referring to by your terminology "tuning", not the tuning of the guitar itself. LOLZ

Audio engineering is not all about maths, yes abit of maths can help, i agree with "tuning" a delay in the mix to the BPM. Only if it sounds like it needs to be done that way tho
If "tuning" your reverb to your live BPM is what you wana do, then sweet as bro do it then. If it sounds good then its obviously sounding alright.
I think closing your eyes for settings like EQ and volume is much better than calculating with maths.
Do you think top musicians and top audio engineers calculate all their settings using maths??
Cos they dont do all of it with maths bro, I believe they use theirs ears, training your ears to what sounds really good CAN take years to master properly
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Old April 17th, 2012, 12:57 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Yes of course, ears for EQs and other treatment 100% agree! Although I'm a visual person I like to see for instance, what I'm hearing in an analyer but just as visual reference, ears are the judges.
I prefer some calculations for anything time-based tho.

Yeah I didn't mean tuning the guitars, more like "tuning" (i.e a car) lol

I'm glad you advised me not to use reverb in a live situation because I'm editing my patches and it would have been a nightmare to correct things during the line check sunday.

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Old April 17th, 2012, 02:24 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Be careful when using your visuals, most people start off using this skill more than their hearing and wonder why it sounds like shit.
Trust me bro, hearing is everything with sound. But yea "tune" your delay or reverb to the BPM or maybe to a quarter note or half note of the BPM.
Then listen and hear if it still sounds good, reason i say this, is because your BPM may vary.
Make sure you are hearing and testing it with your band members, not playing by yourself, the BPM may be different when you all play together at once.
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Old April 17th, 2012, 08:10 AM   #11 (permalink)
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If your leads and solos sound bad without reverb or delay, I guess the problem is in your playing. When I moved from multi fx pedals (Boss GT-8, Me-50...) to real tube amps without any fx and only dry sound, I realised how crap my playing is. I use nowadays only dry sound if I really know my parts well. Delay and reverb thingies are only for stuff I don't know well or I can't play. Ofcourse there is also some parts that are meant to be played with FX, but that's a different story. Kickass solo played fucking loud with tasteful vibrato is 200% better than a wishwash delay smush without balls. Use your phrasing as an effect and you won't need any delayshit!
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Old April 17th, 2012, 03:51 PM   #12 (permalink)
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^ Actually is very true indeed.

But if you enjoy the sound of a lil delay, just make sure its not too loud over-riding the clarity of your playing.
Im sure you want people to hear your playing so make sure its a subtle delay/reverb
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Old April 17th, 2012, 07:21 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Well since you all seem to think I play like shit because I want some daley, here's me with my delay:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/19040508/Des...27s%20done.mp3

I don't think it's overdelaying things something lol (actually.. there are 3 delays going on there!) but yeah, I think it's still not 100% extra sloppy
So you can hear about how subtle I like it. This is the recording Without the rythm tracks... when the double-tracked rytms are there, you don'T really notice the reverb and 3 delays but it gives some kind of "wideness" to my mono solo with those panned delays.
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Old April 17th, 2012, 08:06 PM   #14 (permalink)
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"Well since you all seem to think I play like shit because I want some daley, here's me with my delay:"

No one actually said you play like shit (in fact no one has probably heard your playing), how do you know what we are thinking??
People are just chiming in with their opinions from their experience
All I can say after hearing that mix, is that Im finding it hard to hear your solo because of the delay & dry signal volume level. Turn up the dry signal a lil bit more.
Try using only 1 or 2 delays rather than 3, its getting very busy/mushy because of the delay.(Its definitely not subtle either)
Imagine at the live venue, mush is gona add up with the natural venue reverb and sound even more mushy (Not good if you want people to hear ya)
You are losing the clarity of each individual note because of the delay IMO (Makes it sound rather old school as well)
It sounds like the solo is at the back of the mix too much, which is the symptoms of the Delay and how loud you have your dry signal
This is just my opinion bro, I am trying to help you gain more clarity
also, over doing the effects is a common mistake, and will only give the live sound engineer a headache)
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Old April 17th, 2012, 08:24 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Yes you're right, as I listen again, the dry signal should be a more present, or the wet ones a little less !

It's cool, I'm all open to ideas and tips It helps to grow better, and only the fools can't take an advice
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Old April 17th, 2012, 09:20 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Glad your open to ideas and tips dude, thats how we all learn. Good luck for that gig
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Old April 17th, 2012, 09:52 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I just wanna say, that I once read that Eric Peterson of Testament uses a delay on his rhythms iirc
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Old April 17th, 2012, 10:35 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Was this used to achieve the sound of two guitars playing at once?? I dont think he used it for verby sound tho
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Old April 18th, 2012, 02:43 AM   #19 (permalink)
Pekka Posio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plendakor View Post
Well since you all seem to think I play like shit because I want some daley, here's me with my delay:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/19040508/Des...27s%20done.mp3
You don't play like shit bro, but that doesn't sound pro neither, because you have far too much delay and distortion in the sound. It makes the solo really unclear even without rhythm guitars and it kills all the dynamics.
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Old May 5th, 2012, 09:41 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Okay you need to tell these guys too. they use about the same delay as me live in front of thousands and thousands of people.


:P
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Old May 5th, 2012, 11:07 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Oi this is inside a venue, thats the echo of the venue as well as delay on their lead.
Your mix that was posted in a previous post was not in a live venue and still sounded too much
Your not compensating for venue echo

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Old May 5th, 2012, 11:34 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Okay but I mean, they use a lot of delay still.
He even says he wants the delay at 100 bpm
they don't play dry, that's what i mean
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Old May 5th, 2012, 11:42 PM   #23 (permalink)
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These dudes play mostly instrumental music and also playing leads/solos constantly, thats why they want delay on
Doesnt mean they leave it on 100% of the time though
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Old May 6th, 2012, 02:30 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I don't put delay on my rythms either
But do you guys play leads with a dry sound ?
I know a guy who does it because he doesn'T want to get messed up in his patches by accident
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Old May 6th, 2012, 03:42 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Depends on the music, but as I said in a previous post: "I use a delay on leads"
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