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Old June 4th, 2012, 05:01 AM   #1 (permalink)
evilshredder
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Question Old School Gear, New School Sound

So, Being the poor recording enthusiast I am.. I was tired of guitar plug-ins and programmed drums and said "f$#% it, we're tracking"

Quad tracked one take through the 5150 and one take through the Ultra 60, V30s w/ a 57 into an old Shure "Pro-Master" Console for some slight eq, and a touch of analog clipping. Bass into Randall R_500 with the ZW-44 in front , heavy eq, a lil more clipn..

$hit sounds heavy, like some angry underground American metal
Detuned, Scooped, Gritty I tell ya... Real gritty

Alls fine and dandy, until its drum time...
OMFG we dont even have the mics... So we get the mics..

I have 8 inputs, no outboard comps or eqs.. just my vintage mixer.
Oh, did I mention im tracking with my MAUDIO MOBILEPRE I FOUND ON THE ROAD??!!! So I have stereo input, One shot.. Now heres the question:

10 being the highest, 1 being the lowest... What would you level your

Aco Kick
Trig Kick
Snare Top
Snare Bottom
Tom1
Tom2
Ovrhd L/R

This guy hits pretty frickin hard..
Im just looking to get the best stereo mix into the box I can, so I can bus it 10 times and possibly pull out a good drum sound.. maybe...

I know your a wizard, and I just want a peak at your drum alchemy.
Any help would be GREATLY appreciated
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Old June 4th, 2012, 05:23 AM   #2 (permalink)
006
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You aren't going to get anything better than "garage band demo" quality by doing drums into a mixer into a 2-channel output.
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Old June 4th, 2012, 05:30 AM   #3 (permalink)
evilshredder
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You aren't going to get anything better than "garage band demo" quality by doing drums into a mixer into a 2-channel output.
Well aware of this fact.
Actually, Kinda what were shooting for...
I figure some tricky compression/ eq/bussing can at least get it to sound "cool" if not "interesting"... maybe even "delightfully sub-par"

Just wondering how YOU would ideally level your drums if put in this unideal situation.
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Old June 4th, 2012, 07:32 AM   #4 (permalink)
Machinated
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Record them somewhere else, or buy a new interface.
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Old June 4th, 2012, 07:47 AM   #5 (permalink)
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What I'll do:

Mono drums
channel 1: Kick, Snare and Toms, try to minimize the bleed.
channel 2: very spaced pair OH's

Make as many copies of channel as necesary, then filter them and sample replace every instrument separately

Stereo drums (not sure about this one)
As mentioned before but hard panning all the shells to the center and the OH to the sides, then isolate the center and trigger
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Old June 4th, 2012, 11:10 AM   #6 (permalink)
006
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I wouldn't even bother trying it in the first place because I know how it would turn out, so I can't really give an idea of how I would go about it other than doing true multi-channel.

I don't think you realize how bad it's going to sound. You think that's what you are/may be going for but I promise you will just be wasting your time and be disappointed at the really unflattering results that you are going to get. By all means, try it out, but my money is on it sounding like garbage. Any "tricky compression/eq/bussing" is going to be lackluster on a plain, 2-channel drum source. The comp/eq/bussing needs to be done to individual kit tracks. If you can get some outboard to run on the signals, individually, before it goes to the interface then you may have something but otherwise at best it's going to be a pretty crappy result. And that's all before you even have distorted guitars, vocals and bass to deal with on top of that. Hey, don't take my word for it though, hope it works out.

Last edited by 006 : June 4th, 2012 at 11:16 AM.
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Old June 4th, 2012, 01:58 PM   #7 (permalink)
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The Drum reference thread is gonna help, thats for sure.

I guess mono cymbals really wouldnt be that bad..
I didn't even think of using something like Center on it to separate the cymbals from the meat. Thats a good one.

I probably should just get a 6-8 input interface..
Or hook up the electric kit
That may happen, but unless i get a fat check, i gotta stick to plan c
Ill post a track if it sounds like the heaviest thing from '73
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Old June 4th, 2012, 02:59 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Seriously, you're going to end up with shit drum tracks that you can barely edit, poor representation of your drums because of your lack of options and a serious headache because fixing/sample replacing them is going to be an unbelievable pain in the arse.

I'd seriously record them somewhere more equipped, or otherwise program/edrum - which although you'll sacrifice a load of feel and I generally don't like, it's the better of 2 evils.
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Old June 4th, 2012, 07:29 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Engineering is about do the best with what you have and learn of the failures, don't give up.
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Old June 4th, 2012, 08:34 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I'd just mix it like live sound. Get the best stereo drum mix you can get and know that you aren't changing anything but general eq/comp of the whole drum mix once it's on tape. If you spend alot of time moving mics, and a lot of time eq'ing to tape it might not be awful.
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Old June 4th, 2012, 11:15 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I dont have reel to reel... A vintage Teac deck w/ the analog meters tho...
Thats a great idea for some comp/grit
Ill run my mix outputs into the box, and my eq'd outputs to the deck, which ill dump to the box
The benefits of tracking to cassette mwhahaha
Darkness!
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Old June 5th, 2012, 10:39 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Engineering is about do the best with what you have and learn of the failures, don't give up.
Yep! Luis and Egan are right! Just try and see what you can come up with!
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Old June 5th, 2012, 11:23 AM   #13 (permalink)
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It actually sounds like it could be a fun challenge. You get to spend time working on proper mic placement, and getting things right at the source. Could be a good learning experience.
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Old June 5th, 2012, 11:37 PM   #14 (permalink)
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^ Indeed. It sounds pretty interesting, I'd try it without a doubt.
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Old June 6th, 2012, 02:43 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Do it! If he hits hard and plays well mic the kit the recorderman way and try go get it as good as possible eq'wise on the way in; then you just have to put some nice compression and EQ on the full kit image in the box and you should be good to go.

Multitracking, editing and samplereplacing in all it's glory; but this sounds way more challenging and fun! If you have a digital kit you could always buld some ghetto triggmics and get midi from your toms, snare and bassdrum.
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Old June 6th, 2012, 12:56 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Recorded like this before. You will not get a "modern" sound from it. You might get alright sounding drums sure but you'll probably never record this way again once you try the "normal" way where each mic has it's own input.

I got hired to track drums like this for a project on a super low budget a few months back. I had a a nice desk, a decent enough outboard rack (drawmer gates, DBX 160 comp, RNC etc...) and we did it in a church space. Turned out alright but it wasn't metal either. It was a kind of spacey, alternative stuff. It turned out alright but it wasn't amazing and I don't doubt that I could have gotten a better drum sound doing it differently but it's what the client wanted and I only did drums, they mixed it and wanted "mixed" drums.
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Old June 8th, 2012, 11:31 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
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I'd just mix it like live sound. Get the best stereo drum mix you can get and know that you aren't changing anything but general eq/comp of the whole drum mix once it's on tape. If you spend alot of time moving mics, and a lot of time eq'ing to tape it might not be awful.
Yeah, just get your mix on the board. Get the kick fairly high. I like the toms to jump out, so I like them mixed up there with the kick (but they can be mixed further back than the snare if need be). Snare sound can be a close second. But then, I likey my overheads too...

Just make room for the rest of the instruments in the overheads by cutting everything under about 100-250hz in the overheads at first. Do proper scoopage in the kick and snare if wanted. And I like the idea of using REALLLY spaced out overheads (Truly use the 3-1 rule) on another track. Best thing to do with snare and kick is find the harmonically active fundamental tones of them, accentuate them if possible.

Or use Recorderman.

But being a newbie, take my advice with a grain of salt.
Aco Kick: 7
Trig Kick: 9
Snare Top: 7
Snare Bottom: 6-8
Tom1: 5
Tom2: 6
Ovrhd L/R: 5

Can't bring myself to go lower than 5 lol!
Try it a couple of times itb first and tweak levels to taste. Then put it on tape.
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