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Old October 8th, 2011, 07:39 PM   #1 (permalink)
GraemeSinclair
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The end of "new" In Flames?

Been thinking about the band's direction recently and a thought sprung to my mind. This might be a bit controversial, I'm not sure if many people will agree with it, but I'll say it anyways.

Following SOAPF I'm not sure if I can continue believing in the traditional split of "old" and "new" In Flames being pre-Clayman and post-Reroute. In that model of events, In Flames seemed to be consistently drifting away from a melodic death metal sound, away from albums which functioned as a whole and instead creating albums which were more collections of songs. Anders' vocals became consistently high-pitched screams... (etc. etc. this has been done to death by all of us.)

But from this year onwards I think we've gone beyond "old" In Flames and "new" In Flames and the band is now sitting in a bridging point between the two as just "In Flames." The setlist at the moment has a great balance of older and newer songs, Anders has begun to sound like the man who put vocals down for Whoracle and Colony again, when it is required of him, as well as being able to sing The Quiet Place and Take This Life as they were written. This as opposed to before when he would sing songs like Jotun with vocals in the style of Come Clarity. The attitude towards the older material seems to be more positive "If you don't know this, you know nothing about In Flames." As opposed to it being a burden which had to be played at least a little to satisfy the "Old Timers."

That and SOAPF itself is an album which seems to combine the best elements of everything In Flames have ever been, it's heavy and aggressive, beautifully melodic, it's got low growls, high screams, great clean vocals all in abundance, it's got acoustic sections, synth melodies, awesome twin-lead harmonies, interesting song structures, both personal and global lyrics. I can't see it as part of the progression that started with Reroute, and while it's definitely not the pure folk-driven MDM of the early days it has elements of it, it seems to be a perfect point between the two.

All in all, I think it's a great time to be a fan of the band. They seem to be in a really strong place and maybe (just maybe) in a position where they can please everyone for a change?
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Old October 9th, 2011, 02:43 AM   #2 (permalink)
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In Flames sound can only be described as simply 'The In Flames sound'! (As you said in a way I think.) (: But I agree with you, the new album is in vein with a mix of their past and more present achievements. In Flames we trust.

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Old October 9th, 2011, 05:37 PM   #3 (permalink)
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The funny thing is that for each album they make, it's still the same thing ''return to the old sound''.
When TJR was released, they wanted LS sound, etc etc on each album, the biggest gap was probably R2R-STYE though, imo. Vocal wise, CC-ASOP as well. But I don't think there will be any difference when the next album will arrive, it will be the same thing between the old and new fans. I don't think IF has come to a point in their career where it is any different. Should IF's next album be a Reggae album, then, I'd agree. Next album, the old guys will still whine on IF not returning to their old sound, it's just as it is. Same with Metallica, even 25 years after MoP.

But anyways, SOAPF is indeed a good mix of IF's past an present. And then I really mean all their past, not just back to Clayman or Colony or whatever. Anders has really stepped-up on the album, and also in their recent touring in the support of SOAPF. Can't fucking wait to see them Nov 18th in Stockholm =)
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Old October 10th, 2011, 02:40 PM   #4 (permalink)
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In Flames has dumbed down their quality and went for something more simple. It really looks as if they're washed up or even worse, a sell out. Some of their newer albums sound like something off of Killswitch Engage, Black Veil Brides, or even Three Days Grace.

On contrary, Dark Tranquility is amazing as ever and progress at a moderation, both old and new fans love it. There is no "old" or "new" DT.
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Old October 10th, 2011, 04:51 PM   #5 (permalink)
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No Old or New DT, the music is not that different? What fucking planet are you living in?

There's clearly a fine line between old and new DT fans as well, albeit not that big in comparison as IF fans.

DT eras: pre-electro era & post-electro era. How can you even claim that DT's newer material sounds anything like The Gallery, or The Minds I even?
Though I'll agree, If you compare WATV and The Gallery, the difference is lesser than when comparing ASOP & TJR.
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Old October 10th, 2011, 06:59 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Its not electro, its atmospheric. Dark tranquility's new album is very synth heavy. They simply added more keyboards and you can clearly hear that in the newer stuff, as opposed to more progressive and heavier work from before. WATV sounds closer to Projector days.

You can tell they still retained DTness in WATV. For In Flames, not so much with songs like Liberation(It sounds like alternative rock).
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Old October 10th, 2011, 07:01 PM   #7 (permalink)
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In Flames has dumbed down their quality and went for something more simple. It really looks as if they're washed up or even worse, a sell out. Some of their newer albums sound like something off of Killswitch Engage, Black Veil Brides, or even Three Days Grace.

On contrary, Dark Tranquility is amazing as ever and progress at a moderation, both old and new fans love it. There is no "old" or "new" DT.
But after SOAPF, is that really strictly true? I don't think it's "dumber" than Clayman or The Jester Race. It has one or two dodgy lines, but so did the aforementioned albums... I can understand what you were saying if ASOP was the last release from In Flames, it really did feel like a cheapening of their musical values and a collection of (largely) short, disjointed pop-metal songs for the most part (there were a few good bits and pieces.)

But SOAPF is (I feel) a completely different beast, it's an album that stands as a whole (the way In Flames albums used to) with an atmosphere throughout. It's musically varied, heavy, melodic and certainly not "dumb." It functions as a piece of art, like Whoracle etc. did.

Plus the setlist balance and style of the live shows is more favourable to old material than it has been in a very long time.

But then I said all that in my first post, and it was like you didn't pay any attention to that and just trotted out the tired old argument of "they've dumbed down and sold out." Without paying any attention to (what I see as) significant changes in the situation.
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Old October 10th, 2011, 08:31 PM   #8 (permalink)
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In Flames has dumbed down their quality and went for something more simple. It really looks as if they're washed up or even worse, a sell out. Some of their newer albums sound like something off of Killswitch Engage, Black Veil Brides, or even Three Days Grace.

On contrary, Dark Tranquility is amazing as ever and progress at a moderation, both old and new fans love it. There is no "old" or "new" DT.
Songs like Only for the Weak and Episode 666 are just not that complicated, musically. Yet they are on Clayman and Whoracle, highly respected albums of "Old" In Flames. You could probably throw parts of A New Dawn on Clayman or Colony probably.

While I love DT, I do not like their later catalog that much. The only songs I would like is their later Projector-ish ones, like Iridium, Misery's Crown, Her Silent Language, etc.

When I hear a song like Final Resistance, Dream Oblivion, or Focus Shift, I'm not as empowered by it in comparison to Punish My Heaven, Hedon, or Dobermann.

I would say that this album has really became In Flames' middle ground.
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Old October 12th, 2011, 10:15 PM   #9 (permalink)
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In Flames will always stand as one of my all-time favorite bands, as well as being a huge influence on me as a musician. I've loved every album of theirs...until SOAPF. I dunno, just something about this album just won't allow me to get behind it. Whether it's the songs themselves or how they're delivered(Deliver Us ranks up at the top of my least favorite metal songs ever). I love the band, always will, and that review of their recent shows and setlist makes me happy as hell and want to see them again. But, I can't get behind this latest album of theirs.
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Old October 13th, 2011, 02:48 AM   #10 (permalink)
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In Flames will always stand as one of my all-time favorite bands, as well as being a huge influence on me as a musician. I've loved every album of theirs...until SOAPF. I dunno, just something about this album just won't allow me to get behind it. Whether it's the songs themselves or how they're delivered(Deliver Us ranks up at the top of my least favorite metal songs ever). I love the band, always will, and that review of their recent shows and setlist makes me happy as hell and want to see them again. But, I can't get behind this latest album of theirs.
But you were able to get behind STYE and ASOP? Or do you think they stopped making albums after Reroute and only just returned with SOAPF?
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"We wanted to evolve as an artists and musicians, to make timeless masterpieces - so we started doing 3 minute radio hits. The crowd was shit back in the '90 or early '00, but when we started doing stuff like Disconnected - wow, mayhem, mosh pits everywhere, those true metalheads in the first row, die-hard fans."
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Old October 13th, 2011, 08:34 AM   #11 (permalink)
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I don't know what it is. I love everything of theirs up until ASOP. The new one I just can't do for some reason.
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Old October 13th, 2011, 09:54 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Hmmm... here's the million dollar question - what's your opinion on bottled?
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"We wanted to evolve as an artists and musicians, to make timeless masterpieces - so we started doing 3 minute radio hits. The crowd was shit back in the '90 or early '00, but when we started doing stuff like Disconnected - wow, mayhem, mosh pits everywhere, those true metalheads in the first row, die-hard fans."
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Old October 13th, 2011, 10:23 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Fuck that. New Insomnium is out. Rejoice!
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I'd seriously rather Anders put In Flames on hiatus and started a side project if he wanted to do alt-rock music, but he knows as well as anybody that if this music didn't have "In Flames" attached to it nobody would give a fuck.
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Old October 13th, 2011, 11:10 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I don't know what it is. I love everything of theirs up until ASOP. The new one I just can't do for some reason.
First you say up to SOAPF, now it's ASOP? Two very different albums, which is it my man?
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Old October 13th, 2011, 11:51 AM   #15 (permalink)
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But you were able to get behind STYE and ASOP? Or do you think they stopped making albums after Reroute and only just returned with SOAPF?
Please don't put STYE and ASOP on the same level. ASOP is mostly drivel, but c'mon! You can't hate STYE THAT much???

I think SOAPF is a great blend of old and new, but not just that- it manages to delve into the creativity that Anders, Bjorn and co all wanted to express. A Sense of Purpose was an example of them not expressing themselves to the full- 3 minute songs that sound like they were built for radio, solos that needn't have been there at all and lyrics that weren't all that relateable.

Then you have a song like A New Dawn, where the band go out of their way to carve a great track, taking their time to get the song across. They could have easily made the track 4 mintues long with some strings as a bridge- but instead it is an extra-ordinary length for an In Flames song, adding diversity to the record at the same time.
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Old October 13th, 2011, 12:02 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Please don't put STYE and ASOP on the same level. ASOP is mostly drivel, but c'mon! You can't hate STYE THAT much???
Yes he can. I know I can.

STYE and ASOP are shit!
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I'd seriously rather Anders put In Flames on hiatus and started a side project if he wanted to do alt-rock music, but he knows as well as anybody that if this music didn't have "In Flames" attached to it nobody would give a fuck.
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Old October 13th, 2011, 12:24 PM   #17 (permalink)
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The thing that damns STYE for me is that it hasn't gotten better with age. Almost all of In Flames albums have gotten better and more special for me as they've got older, especially R2R and CC, two albums I wasn't hugely keen on originally but grew on me hugely.

STYE on the other hand bores me now more than it did when it came out. There's just nothing to it. ASOP I kind of tolerated when it came out but hate now, so both fall into the category of worsening with age rather than getting better.

For what it's worth, I do rate STYE above ASOP... but it's kind of like saying I prefer vomit to shit
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"We wanted to evolve as an artists and musicians, to make timeless masterpieces - so we started doing 3 minute radio hits. The crowd was shit back in the '90 or early '00, but when we started doing stuff like Disconnected - wow, mayhem, mosh pits everywhere, those true metalheads in the first row, die-hard fans."
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Old October 13th, 2011, 12:40 PM   #18 (permalink)
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To my ears STYE has aged the same way as RTR, they are both share this alt-type vibe/mood/feel. I don't know how to put it into words but the song types are very similar when you stand them up against, say, Come Clarity where the songs were very thrashy and with technical riffs here, there and everywhere. I can understand you ranking it low in the catalogue, but it's not really that bad of an album. I remember you saying that you were listening through the In Flames catalogue and STYE came on, and you just wanted to skip it haha, but i really enjoy listening through the album. Has a great chill out vibe (guess what you meant by boring :P)

I feel Reroute has aged terribly, what with the shoddy production. Don't get me wrong, fuckin' amazing album- i'd just love to hear them with the quality of production that SOAPF has!

The way i see it there are a few distinct eras to the In Flames sound (i know many of you will disagree). Strangely, when listening to In Flames i always listen to albums in these groups:

The 'classic' sound

Jester Race
Whoracle
Colony
Clayman

The alt-metal sound

Reroute to Remain
Soundtrack to Your Escape

The modern sound

Come Clarity
A Sense of Purpose
Sounds of Playground Fading
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Old October 13th, 2011, 07:35 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I agree with DE4life.

Reroute to Remain and Come Clarity are the only "good" new In Flames albums for me. SOPF is an improvement from ASOP but still pretty bad(with the exception of A New Dawn).
I noticed that In Flames' best new albums contain white background, if you know what I mean
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Old October 23rd, 2011, 09:07 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Would be best if they just ended the whole "In Flames" thing and called themselves a new name, fresh start. For the past 15 years they have been getting progresively worse and essentially crapping all over their legacy. Just end it now and put to bed all of this debate. No one is ever gonna be happy so time to move on I say...
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Old October 24th, 2011, 08:09 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Commercially it would make no sense whatsoever for them to do that. And it's obvious they don't really care about their "legacy".
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Old October 24th, 2011, 11:48 AM   #22 (permalink)
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I'm pretty happy with their all of their music. I'd rather have progression than 9 copies of TJR.
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Old October 24th, 2011, 11:52 AM   #23 (permalink)
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I'm pretty happy with their all of their music. I'd rather have progression than 9 copies of TJR.
This. I mean come on, would you really want In Flames to be the AC/DC of Sweden?
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Old October 24th, 2011, 05:06 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I'm pretty happy with their all of their music. I'd rather have progression than 9 copies of TJR.
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This. I mean come on, would you really want In Flames to be the AC/DC of Sweden?
.

Even Soundtrack to Your Escape is pretty good from a general stand point. I know a lot of you disagree, but I still like songs like Evil in a Closet/In Search For I/Touch of Red.

Minus Bottled. It's definitely IF's worst song, but compared to what a lot of other bands put out, I wouldn't call it the "worst song ever."

The best thing about music is that it's always changing. I'm a big Megadeth fan (well, I was until Dave wen't crazy... again), but I wouldn't want every album to be a different version of Rust In Peace. I wouldn't want every Bodom album to sound like Hatebreeder. IF's progression makes it so they're still listenable when you get tired of one style of their music. All you have to do is pop in a different one. I know a lot of people here want everything they put out to sound like TJR-Colony, but often when you get what you wish for, you'll end up wishing you hadn't (for various reasons). If they kept the same style, people would complain about their sound getting stale; it'd be "the same ol' predictable In Flames." That exact reason is why I can't stand listening to AC/DC. They do rock and roll bang on, but I couldn't tell you whether a song of theirs was released yesterday or twenty years ago. It's boring.

That said, I'd jizz in my pants if the band announced Colony II. But not III or IV.
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Old October 24th, 2011, 08:14 PM   #25 (permalink)
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This. I mean come on, would you really want In Flames to be the AC/DC of Sweden?

Lunar Strain to Clayman was a progress and a very good one. In Flames would be legendary if they ended their career after that.
If In Flames only made new catalogue from Reroute to SOPF, no one would give a shit about them, they would just be another generic band.

They should make more "A New Dawn" type songs with Anders growling again.
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