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Old May 14th, 2007, 09:16 AM   #1 (permalink)
myownsilence
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Katatonia don't please the fan boys.. (aka don't become a sell out like PL)

I wanted to reply to the Paradise lost thread, but I began to get to into it, so I decided by my own godly right to post a new thread on my feelings.


Ever since Host I don't get what happened, a great band that lost it. I stil listen as its not all bad, but come on, they chickened out to the fans.

They experimented with HOST (which was a fantastc album and remains a well played album in my collection) and then sold out to the fans.. you should never do that, I lost a lot of respect for them doing that.

So heres my bit whereby i decided to get more into my point....


Thanks to Katatonia who have created something at least I can get my teeth into.. but saying that one thing thats pissing me of on these forums are sad emo fan boys.. I gotta get this out and i'll do it here, I love the sound you guys have but for me thats where the whole "I love" Katatonia ends. I don't worship Katatonia, but I respect what they have acheived. I also love the fact that we can tap into the band members for info. But when they pop up on these forums some members seem to get overly excited by their presence.


Anyway theres just a little rant i thought i'd have as i wanted to kill 10 mins of my work time, hope i dont sound too annoyed cause I don't, but if theres one band who have earned my repect for their style.. and thats each one of them from Jonas to Anders and all in between, building on each album as they have done then its gotta be Katatonia.

They give me a reason to believe there is more to music than just inspiration.

Keep it alive Katatonia! (in other words don't you dare sell out to the fans!)

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Old May 14th, 2007, 09:43 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Couldn't agree with you more, I think I made that clear in another thread as well.
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Old May 14th, 2007, 11:26 AM   #3 (permalink)
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The op, as a whole, didn't make much sense, fyi.
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Old May 14th, 2007, 11:59 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I dont know why some people insist on reading into what might happen.......bands change if they are any good at all....many thought Katatonia "sold out" with the release of Discouraged Ones.....over many years Katatonia has evolved significantly with each alblum so depending on what "style" of Katatonia you like would determine if YOU think they sold out or not.....Katatonia has never let me down and I dont expect them to do so at any time.
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Old May 14th, 2007, 12:34 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Katatonia will continue to make the music that burns in their hearts and their minds.
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Old May 14th, 2007, 04:03 PM   #6 (permalink)
Vincent J.
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Yep, there's no reason at all that I can see to fear Katatonia would ever sell out...


Ugh, that sounds bad doesn't it? Katatonia and selling out in one sentence...


Their music, it's from the heart...
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Old May 14th, 2007, 04:41 PM   #7 (permalink)
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heh. Well I for one can admit the new PL seems like they're giving into fans a bit.
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Old May 14th, 2007, 05:56 PM   #8 (permalink)
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well, i'm glad they didn't go further in the direction of 'Host' which is clearly their worst release for me. with 'Host' they lost everything what made PL for me. 'Symbol Of Life' and 'Paradise Lost' sounded like a forced return to the roots though and i think these albums are plain boring. the new one, on the other hand, sounds really fresh and as if they were really enjoying what they were doing. it sounds quite sincere imo.
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Old May 14th, 2007, 05:57 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I don't get it.. where are the emo fan boys here?
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Old May 14th, 2007, 07:34 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Ok...so you hear the new Paradise Lost, think it's a sell out, then you come to the Katatonia forum to inform the band that their fans don't want them to sellout? The two bands have nothing in common so it's really pointless to compare the two. I don't remember Katatonia ever saying that they're following the path of Paradise Lost? What a idiotic thread this is. I hereby puke on it.
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Old May 14th, 2007, 07:51 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I think what you are trying to say is that you don't want Katatonia to lose their integrity and begin manufacturing a product instead of living a musical life and telling us about it with their releases. I don't either, but here is why I am not worried:

I saw Katatonia over the winter in the smallest, shittiest, most poorly lit and engineered club in the Midwest United States (possibly the entire country but I'll leave that up for debate) with about 34 other people after the release of their most polished, accessible, and beautifully written album to date. I have absolutely no fears of them 'selling out' by American or even Swedish standards.

To put things in perspective, Katatonia was not even nominated for a Swedish Grammy last year(Meshuggah and Opeth were, Candlemass won it). I don't know that it could still be considered selling out since none of these bands gets decent radioplay in this area of the US, none in Croatia or other areas of Eastern Europe, and absolutely get no video play on American MTV. The American parallel here is Tool or Lamb of God, who also don't get any videoplay on MTV but who are significantly popular.

Doing/selling anything to or for the fans is the ideal...it means what drives you as an artist and what connects you with your audience are the same thing. Selling out to your label, agent, the general population (ie making generic music anyone will buy...like Hinder) or greed for commercial success for the purpose of buying a koenigsegg or something equally as ridiculous is what steals your soul. I don't know what to say about Paradise Lost...unfortunately for them I have always thought they sucked.
In the end, bands have to sell music to someone (= fans) if they want to make a living. Music must be heard and loved to be more than just a quiet humming in someones head while they clip their toenails. Katatonia is fortunate in that they are monumentally talented, and are able to tap into an emotional space a lot of people exist within, which wins them a measure of success without asking a lot of compromise in return.

So anyways, I do not think Katatonia will be performing a coffee jingle to a hundred thousand fans in Norway anytime soon.

(don't get me wrong...I bet Anders would look badass in a koenigsegg).
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Old May 14th, 2007, 09:01 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EternityRites View Post
I think what you are trying to say is that you don't want Katatonia to lose their integrity and begin manufacturing a product instead of living a musical life and telling us about it with their releases. I don't either, but here is why I am not worried:

I saw Katatonia over the winter in the smallest, shittiest, most poorly lit and engineered club in the Midwest United States (possibly the entire country but I'll leave that up for debate) with about 34 other people after the release of their most polished, accessible, and beautifully written album to date. I have absolutely no fears of them 'selling out' by American or even Swedish standards.

To put things in perspective, Katatonia was not even nominated for a Swedish Grammy last year(Meshuggah and Opeth were, Candlemass won it). I don't know that it could still be considered selling out since none of these bands gets decent radioplay in this area of the US, none in Croatia or other areas of Eastern Europe, and absolutely get no video play on American MTV. The American parallel here is Tool or Lamb of God, who also don't get any videoplay on MTV but who are significantly popular.

Doing/selling anything to or for the fans is the ideal...it means what drives you as an artist and what connects you with your audience are the same thing. Selling out to your label, agent, the general population (ie making generic music anyone will buy...like Hinder) or greed for commercial success for the purpose of buying a koenigsegg or something equally as ridiculous is what steals your soul. I don't know what to say about Paradise Lost...unfortunately for them I have always thought they sucked.
In the end, bands have to sell music to someone (= fans) if they want to make a living. Music must be heard and loved to be more than just a quiet humming in someones head while they clip their toenails. Katatonia is fortunate in that they are monumentally talented, and are able to tap into an emotional space a lot of people exist within, which wins them a measure of success without asking a lot of compromise in return.

So anyways, I do not think Katatonia will be performing a coffee jingle to a hundred thousand fans in Norway anytime soon.

(don't get me wrong...I bet Anders would look badass in a koenigsegg).


well said......and welcome to the forum. Its nice to see a thoughtful post from someone who is fairly new here.
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Old May 14th, 2007, 09:17 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Yeah that was a good post but still haven't done the magic of saving this thread from being fucking awful.
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Old May 14th, 2007, 10:49 PM   #14 (permalink)
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"Selling Out" is such a childish term anymore, I think Katatonia have proven they can make accessible sound while remaining artistically brilliant - they are so far past paradise lost.
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Old May 15th, 2007, 02:22 AM   #15 (permalink)
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people who think that bands sell out because they make a music video, change their sound and up the production a bit are fucking lame elitest fags
its. about. the. fucking. music.
dance of december souls wasn't good because it isn't mainstream, it's fucking good cuz its incredible music
the same thing with the great cold distance

music changes with the band
fans who don't get that are arrogant dumbfucks
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Old May 15th, 2007, 02:27 AM   #16 (permalink)
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however with that being said
i DO understand that 99.99999999% of mainstream music is complete shit
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Old May 15th, 2007, 02:46 AM   #17 (permalink)
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I think that this is why I sometimes refrain from posting in forums..

It also shows how the Katatonia forums are becoming crouded with a younger more intense audience - not necessary a bad thing.


I think what I said makes perfect sense but for those without an eye for logic i'll sum it up.

1. I (thats me) think the New Paradise lost album is pretty poor, come on theres very little on it thats really enjoyable.

2. I (thats me) liked Host the most, it was if nothing else full of rich melodies but was individual at the time.

3. I (thats me) don't want Katatonia to sell out like PL.

The (thats me) bit sort of gives away hopefully that this is my feeling.

The reason I make them here is because I wouldn't want to make them elsewhere - i never feel they belong and I can post them here to what i hope would be a like minded group.

As for the over the top fans.. if you havent seen them, everytime Anders or Jonas rears his head someone has to type something stupid.

I'm a Katatonia fan (of the music) ,and have been ever since Kerrang (back in the day) included a small section on Tonights Decision compairing it to the sound of PL so i bought it. Of course it changed me and my view on dark rock and I feel that the interesting direction taken by Katatonia has managed to leave that cheesy sound that was stuck in gothic music and actually make it far more serious.

Which is why I feel its much more important to wish for the band to never cave in, theres not much else out there anymore, the odd interesting band, but nothing that comes close to the intensity of Katatonia without sounding harsh.
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Old May 15th, 2007, 03:31 AM   #18 (permalink)
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I completely understand your point. However, what evidence suggests Katatonia will sell out as PL has? (I personally dislike the direction PL has gone myself)
I'm not disagreeing with the fact that Katatonia should not go in that direction.
I just fail to see any relation between the two bands other than the 'gothic' label.. I think they have forked off into two totally different directions.
I can see your point with the young immature fans crowding the forums saying 'OMGZZ ITS ANDORZZZ BLAKKHEHIMMM LOLZZZ U RULLZZZ OMGZ I LUVZ UUUUU!!!!!111oneone'
but
I've seen this happen since I've been here (a few months) only like 3 times.
And for the record, young fans exist, and we're not all retards.
Please don't make us out to be.
I'm a big katatonia fan. I love them for their music. Each album. And so far they have done nothing to make me doubt their direction.
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Old May 15th, 2007, 03:32 AM   #19 (permalink)
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I completely understand your point. However, what evidence suggests Katatonia will sell out as PL has? (I personally dislike the direction PL has gone myself)
I'm not disagreeing with the fact that Katatonia should not go in that direction.
I just fail to see any relation between the two bands other than the 'gothic' label.. I think they have forked off into two totally different directions.
I can see your point with the young immature fans crowding the forums saying 'OMGZZ ITS ANDORZZZ BLAKKHEHIMMM LOLZZZ U RULLZZZ OMGZ I LUVZ UUUUU!!!!!111oneone'
but
I've seen this happen since I've been here (a few months) only like 3 times.
And for the record, young fans exist, and we're not all retards.
Please don't make us out to be.
I'm a big katatonia fan. I love them for their music. Each album. And so far they have done nothing to make me doubt their direction.
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Old May 15th, 2007, 06:25 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Ok...so you hear the new Paradise Lost, think it's a sell out, then you come to the Katatonia forum to inform the band that their fans don't want them to sellout? The two bands have nothing in common so it's really pointless to compare the two. I don't remember Katatonia ever saying that they're following the path of Paradise Lost? What a idiotic thread this is. I hereby puke on it.
Katatonia is very much influenced by Paradise Lost, especially in the early days (listen to Sounds of Decay and then to PL's Gothic, the sound is virtually the same).

Anders used to (or perhaps still does) worship the Gothic album, it's one of the reasons he started the band I believe. So generally comparing Katatonia and PL definitely does hold some water, at least.

Anyway, that was not the point, the point was that the guy is disappointed about the fact that PL supposedly returned to their old sound because many of the fans want them to and so PL have 'sold out'. He's just saying he's appreciating Katatonia for not doing that and expresses the wish for them to keep it that way (not in any way insinuating he's expecting them to 'sell out').

Last edited by MadTinus : May 18th, 2007 at 03:18 AM.
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Old May 15th, 2007, 06:36 AM   #21 (permalink)
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I definitely agree on the point that a band should keep progressing, and never turn back. If you get to the point where you have nothing left to say then just leave the stage.
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Old May 15th, 2007, 07:23 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Yes you get my point!

I was having a chat earlier to the bass player in my band about this sell out attitude.

The reason I get concerned is because we were realising just how many bands start redoing stuff again and again. I know there will be those fans out their who want discouraged ones back again or LFDGD repeated (I would love it !) but this should be ignored by the band as if they were to do this they would jepodise their direction, wherever it may lie. Once you decide to go back on yourself I feel its the end for the band. Progression is the key to a surviving band.

It might not bring the most money in, but fast money = short lived band in my view.


Put it this way would you prefer to get 10 million now and live 10 years, or get 5 million and live for 20 years?

am I waffling.. hell yes!
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Old May 15th, 2007, 09:35 AM   #23 (permalink)
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I dont understand how you have come to the conclusion that Pl have "sold out". The last 2-3 albums dont sound like any of the other releases.
Pointless thread.
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Old May 15th, 2007, 09:42 AM   #24 (permalink)
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In his opinion PL sold out by returning to their old (and more popular) sound. And not because PL wanted to, but to please the fans.
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Old May 15th, 2007, 10:52 AM   #25 (permalink)
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i swear half the people aren't even reading this guys post before speaking against it.
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