What if Jonas re-recorded the vocals Discouraged Ones?

batmura · August 19th, 2011, 01:18 PM

What would your reaction be if Jonas Renkse were to re-record the vocal parts of Discouraged Ones and perhaps Tonight's Decision? Would his obvious improved style benefit the songs based on his recent live performances or would it detract from the overall atmosphere and quality of the album? Would his more 'perfect' singing hinder his ability to express character?

Any thoughts?

DarkGift · August 19th, 2011, 02:19 PM

haven't really gotten into DO yet, so can't say anything about that... but re-recording anything from tonight's decision would be

pretty much, awesome atmosphere

Conscious Pilot · August 19th, 2011, 02:32 PM

I think it would be interesting to hear both of those records revisited with their updated sound of today - Jonas' vocals and over a more lush base. TOTALLY unnecessary, of course, but I, for one would be very interested to hear them both.

Coma323 · August 19th, 2011, 02:44 PM

I think both albums are fine as is.

Brave.Archangel · August 19th, 2011, 03:18 PM

I mean it would kinda be cool, but why bother? The album is perfect.

BlueSky · August 19th, 2011, 05:11 PM

Jonas' vocals on those records have a direct correlation to the sound they had. Every single aspect of the band was less refined back then. Meaning rerecorded vocals would stick out like a sore thumb. Personally what has always stood out to me most about Jonas is his phenomenal tone, not so much his ability. Has his technique improved over time? Most certainly, but the emotional impact has lessened on the past two records imho. What I'd like to see is for him to really apply himself and open up a much broader dynamic range for future material. Perhaps he could use a double shot of espresso...

Lisra · August 19th, 2011, 06:06 PM

naahh... he has some of the most emotional performances there. Fucking Distrust. Not really the best tech, but sooo touching.

the only thing that might benefit from improvement are the backing vox on the original Right Into The Bliss. I don't know if that's Jonas doing a falsetto or Blakkie, but it just sounds.. thin. A shame, because it sounded amazing on Live Consternation.

Coma323 · August 19th, 2011, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lisra

naahh... he has some of the most emotional performances there. Fucking Distrust.

Exactly. That and Gone are incredible in that aspect.

FlawedCoil82 · August 19th, 2011, 10:42 PM

I recently just bought and finally gave good, thorough listens to DISCOURAGED ONES and TONIGHT'S DECISION. I do still stand behind my belief that Jonas has perfected his vocal style on THE GREAT COLD DISTANCE and NIGHT IS THE NEW DAY. I would not want to hear him abandon his current style. However, I was able to find much on these older albums to appreciate that I never gave a chance to before, especially because I found it fascinating how much they improved with every album (especially Jonas). I know the payoff is huge once I get into TGCD and NITND, so I enjoy listening to the entire library from start to finish (I do not like the material before DO...except "Day").

As others have said though, (while I truly love the vocal style he now uses), I don't know how that style would fit into these earlier songs from DO and TD (unless they were fully rerecorded...and even then I have my doubts). I will say this though.....TD could definitely use a remastering (or maybe a whole new recording). The mix/sound quality on that album was pretty bad. Some of the cymbals sound like wind chimes (like what you hear from downloading compressed 128 kbps bitrate mp3 files) plus there was a lot of cracking/popping in the audio. I thought it was dust on my laser's lens or even the disc itself, but it's definitely organic to the data already on the disc. Otherwise, that album was quite good. Even still, if push came to shove, I would still rather have all-new Katatonia music to listen to instead of rerecorded songs.

thedeadwing · August 20th, 2011, 01:51 AM

DO doesn't need any changes imho - it's perfect as it is and the vocals as they are done, are an important part of that atmosphere they created. TD could benefit much from proper re-mastering, but I don't see/hear the need in re-recording it in it's entirely.

KittyKatatonia · August 21st, 2011, 08:38 PM

I think Jonas' vocals on Tonight's Decision are already really good, so I really don't see the point in re-doing that one. Actually when that album came out I remember thinking he had really improved vocally since Discouraged Ones. Sure he's even better now, but Tonight's Decision he still sounds damn good.

Discouraged Ones, on the other hand, I would love to hear his vocals re-recorded. I like the original the way it is, and there's something pure and honest about his performance...even if it's not perfect. However when you hear the band now play a song from that album live...Jonas sings them much better now.

But honestly, my biggest request for the band is to re-release a remixed version of Viva Emptiness. That album has amazing songs that are held way back by a really bad mix with muddy guitars, and a crappy drum sound.

Cerulean · August 22nd, 2011, 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueSky

Jonas' vocals on those records have a direct correlation to the sound they had. Every single aspect of the band was less refined back then. Meaning rerecorded vocals would stick out like a sore thumb. Personally what has always stood out to me most about Jonas is his phenomenal tone, not so much his ability. Has his technique improved over time? Most certainly, but the emotional impact has lessened on the past two records imho. What I'd like to see is for him to really apply himself and open up a much broader dynamic range for future material. Perhaps he could use a double shot of espresso...

This. All the way.

discouraged1 · August 23rd, 2011, 10:33 AM

insidethefall · August 26th, 2011, 09:06 AM

Jonas' vocals are definetly not as refined on DO, but I like that...I like his morose Robert Smith like voice, it fits the shoegaze-gone-doom era of Katatonia extremely well. Change nothing, but if they would re-record a track such as deadhouse, it would be worth it for a listen. I'm not a huge fan of TD (my least fav Katatonia album) but still, I would leave it be.

nat0 · August 27th, 2011, 09:04 AM

wtf this will never happen omg we srsly need to get a life and yeah .. the album is fine the way it is :P

season1234 · September 2nd, 2011, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by insidethefall

Jonas' vocals are definetly not as refined on DO, but I like that...I like his morose Robert Smith like voice, it fits the shoegaze-gone-doom era of Katatonia extremely well. Change nothing, but if they would re-record a track such as deadhouse, it would be worth it for a listen. I'm not a huge fan of TD (my least fav Katatonia album) but still, I would leave it be.

Could not agree more..absolutely love the Robert Smith influence on his vocals on DO. It was also the album that changed me into a HUGE Katatonia fan, although I did love the band's material before that as well.

It is kinda like when Amorphis recently re-recorded some tunes from their first 3 albums: a better production, better death growls, etc..but I still prefer the originals by far, the sound of the old versions of the songs has an atmosphere that holds a special place in my heart. I can't imagine that I would like a re-recorded version of DO (even if it was just the vox) more than the original.

shadowNINE · September 20th, 2011, 03:13 PM

I like the album the way it is. His technique was less refined, but it fit the album very well. I think if they were going to rerecord the vocals, they would have to rerecord the entire album, really! Not necessary, even though it might be interesting.

Burgery · September 25th, 2011, 10:35 AM

The vocals on Discouraged Ones are perfect.

Francis Xavier · September 29th, 2011, 11:12 PM

The idea whilst sounds interesting... No. Every Katatonia album whilst possessing certain charactertics is unique in its own way. No doubt Jonas vocals have improved considerably, in fact at times he sounds liek a diff vocalist. Still, DO just lives up to its name. It is pure depressing and helplessness. The seeming lack of energy in the vocals makes that album what it is. Some of the songs are as soul crushing as many Funeral Doom artists, vocals are a major reason for this.

Adam Stryker · October 4th, 2011, 06:27 PM

I like the doomy vocal that DO has there should be no need for them the re-record it. Why waste time with a remake?

DanLights · October 5th, 2011, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KittyKatatonia

But honestly, my biggest request for the band is to re-release a remixed version of Viva Emptiness. That album has amazing songs that are held way back by a really bad mix with muddy guitars, and a crappy drum sound.

Really? Although I think tgcd and nitnd have far superior mixes than VE, I see nothing wrong with the mix on that album, I think it's better than all their previous recordings. I don't find the guitars muddy nor the drums crappy, although I agree Jens (Bogren, producer/mixer) really surpassed himself and pretty much everyone else with TGCD and Opeth's Ghost Reveries, I think VE was a very good mix nonetheless.

Lisra · October 5th, 2011, 01:10 PM

The drums always sounded kinda weak to me, especially when compared to the head-smashing snare sound of LFDGD.

Francis Xavier · October 5th, 2011, 11:13 PM

The drums always sounded kinda weak to me, especially when compared to the head-smashing snare sound of LFDGD.
One of the strengths of the album; the tone of the album is fairly monotonous yet combined with some lively rhythms. The snare is awesome; TGCD has some of those moments but more nuanced, subtle use of the snare.

August 19th, 2011, 01:18 PM	#1 (permalink)
batmura Sea of Tranquility Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 2,810	What if Jonas re-recorded the vocals Discouraged Ones? What would your reaction be if Jonas Renkse were to re-record the vocal parts of Discouraged Ones and perhaps Tonight's Decision? Would his obvious improved style benefit the songs based on his recent live performances or would it detract from the overall atmosphere and quality of the album? Would his more 'perfect' singing hinder his ability to express character? Any thoughts? __________________ Sea of Tranquility - The Web Destination for Progressive Music!

August 19th, 2011, 02:19 PM	#2 (permalink)
DarkGift ov Doom Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 25,767	haven't really gotten into DO yet, so can't say anything about that... but re-recording anything from tonight's decision would be pretty much, awesome atmosphere __________________ Desolator: http://www.myspace.com/desolatorswe http://www.facebook.com/DesolatorSwe Death Metal Within the Fall: http://www.facebook.com/WithinTheFall http://www.youtube.com/withinthefall Death/Doom Metal last.fm: http://www.lastfm.se/user/Anubis-

August 19th, 2011, 02:44 PM	#4 (permalink)
Coma323 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Ledyard, CT Posts: 876	I think both albums are fine as is. __________________ Your weapon is guilt...

August 19th, 2011, 03:18 PM	#5 (permalink)
Brave.Archangel Inside the City of Glass Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: In a village north of San Francisco Posts: 1,379	I mean it would kinda be cool, but why bother? The album is perfect. __________________ A single pair of hands at work is worth more than a billion clasped in prayer

August 19th, 2011, 05:11 PM	#6 (permalink)
BlueSky Banned Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 4,339	Jonas' vocals on those records have a direct correlation to the sound they had. Every single aspect of the band was less refined back then. Meaning rerecorded vocals would stick out like a sore thumb. Personally what has always stood out to me most about Jonas is his phenomenal tone, not so much his ability. Has his technique improved over time? Most certainly, but the emotional impact has lessened on the past two records imho. What I'd like to see is for him to really apply himself and open up a much broader dynamic range for future material. Perhaps he could use a double shot of espresso... Last edited by BlueSky : August 19th, 2011 at 09:08 PM.

August 19th, 2011, 02:32 PM	#3 (permalink)
Conscious Pilot Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 45	I think it would be interesting to hear both of those records revisited with their updated sound of today - Jonas' vocals and over a more lush base. TOTALLY unnecessary, of course, but I, for one would be very interested to hear them both.

August 19th, 2011, 06:06 PM	#7 (permalink)
Lisra starlight spectre Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Nijmegen, Netherlands Posts: 2,009	naahh... he has some of the most emotional performances there. Fucking Distrust. Not really the best tech, but sooo touching. the only thing that might benefit from improvement are the backing vox on the original Right Into The Bliss. I don't know if that's Jonas doing a falsetto or Blakkie, but it just sounds.. thin. A shame, because it sounded amazing on Live Consternation. __________________ Don't die for anything less than the best of life albums I actually bought

August 19th, 2011, 10:42 PM	#9 (permalink)
FlawedCoil82 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Troy, Ohio Posts: 252	I recently just bought and finally gave good, thorough listens to DISCOURAGED ONES and TONIGHT'S DECISION. I do still stand behind my belief that Jonas has perfected his vocal style on THE GREAT COLD DISTANCE and NIGHT IS THE NEW DAY. I would not want to hear him abandon his current style. However, I was able to find much on these older albums to appreciate that I never gave a chance to before, especially because I found it fascinating how much they improved with every album (especially Jonas). I know the payoff is huge once I get into TGCD and NITND, so I enjoy listening to the entire library from start to finish (I do not like the material before DO...except "Day"). As others have said though, (while I truly love the vocal style he now uses), I don't know how that style would fit into these earlier songs from DO and TD (unless they were fully rerecorded...and even then I have my doubts). I will say this though.....TD could definitely use a remastering (or maybe a whole new recording). The mix/sound quality on that album was pretty bad. Some of the cymbals sound like wind chimes (like what you hear from downloading compressed 128 kbps bitrate mp3 files) plus there was a lot of cracking/popping in the audio. I thought it was dust on my laser's lens or even the disc itself, but it's definitely organic to the data already on the disc. Otherwise, that album was quite good. Even still, if push came to shove, I would still rather have all-new Katatonia music to listen to instead of rerecorded songs. __________________ Within Temptation, Flaw, Tool, Lacuna Coil, The Panic Division, Breaking Benjamin, Katatonia, Red, Evans Blue, A Perfect Circle, Lunatica, Metallica, Evanescence, Silverchair ('94-'01), Bush, Autumn, Stone Temple Pilots, Fair To Midland, Leaves' Eyes, Novus Dae, Cyrenic, Goo Goo Dolls, Type O Negative, Cold, Staind, Era For A Moment, The Birthday Massacre, Absolution Project, Delain, Atomship, 3 Doors Down, Lifehouse, Creed, Linkin Park, 10 Years, Brave, The Smashing Pumpkins and tons more. Last edited by FlawedCoil82 : August 19th, 2011 at 10:47 PM.

August 20th, 2011, 01:51 AM	#10 (permalink)
thedeadwing Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 90	DO doesn't need any changes imho - it's perfect as it is and the vocals as they are done, are an important part of that atmosphere they created. TD could benefit much from proper re-mastering, but I don't see/hear the need in re-recording it in it's entirely.

August 21st, 2011, 08:38 PM	#11 (permalink)
KittyKatatonia Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: USA Posts: 393	I think Jonas' vocals on Tonight's Decision are already really good, so I really don't see the point in re-doing that one. Actually when that album came out I remember thinking he had really improved vocally since Discouraged Ones. Sure he's even better now, but Tonight's Decision he still sounds damn good. Discouraged Ones, on the other hand, I would love to hear his vocals re-recorded. I like the original the way it is, and there's something pure and honest about his performance...even if it's not perfect. However when you hear the band now play a song from that album live...Jonas sings them much better now. But honestly, my biggest request for the band is to re-release a remixed version of Viva Emptiness. That album has amazing songs that are held way back by a really bad mix with muddy guitars, and a crappy drum sound.

August 23rd, 2011, 10:33 AM	#13 (permalink)
discouraged1 disco my arse! Join Date: May 2001 Location: Belgrade, Serbia Posts: 1,912	^+1 __________________ Consecration - ambient doom / space rock... or "whale metal" as some like to call it

August 26th, 2011, 09:06 AM	#14 (permalink)
insidethefall somewhere nowhere Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: pittsburgh, pa Posts: 1,089	Jonas' vocals are definetly not as refined on DO, but I like that...I like his morose Robert Smith like voice, it fits the shoegaze-gone-doom era of Katatonia extremely well. Change nothing, but if they would re-record a track such as deadhouse, it would be worth it for a listen. I'm not a huge fan of TD (my least fav Katatonia album) but still, I would leave it be. __________________ any colours to express apart from bleak is hard

August 27th, 2011, 09:04 AM	#15 (permalink)
nat0 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 125	wtf this will never happen omg we srsly need to get a life and yeah .. the album is fine the way it is :P __________________ So often are you as a blazing torch, with flakes of burning rags falling about you. Flaming, you know not if flames freedom bring or death. Consuming all that you most cherish, if ashes only will be left, and want, chaos and tempest shall it engulf. Or will the ashes hold the glory of a starlike diamond – the Morning Star of everlasting triumph?

September 20th, 2011, 03:13 PM	#17 (permalink)
shadowNINE ··· Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: MA, USA Posts: 640	I like the album the way it is. His technique was less refined, but it fit the album very well. I think if they were going to rerecord the vocals, they would have to rerecord the entire album, really! Not necessary, even though it might be interesting.

September 25th, 2011, 10:35 AM	#18 (permalink)
Burgery Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 2	The vocals on Discouraged Ones are perfect.

September 29th, 2011, 11:12 PM	#19 (permalink)
Francis Xavier Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 146	The idea whilst sounds interesting... No. Every Katatonia album whilst possessing certain charactertics is unique in its own way. No doubt Jonas vocals have improved considerably, in fact at times he sounds liek a diff vocalist. Still, DO just lives up to its name. It is pure depressing and helplessness. The seeming lack of energy in the vocals makes that album what it is. Some of the songs are as soul crushing as many Funeral Doom artists, vocals are a major reason for this.

October 4th, 2011, 06:27 PM	#20 (permalink)
Adam Stryker Tragic Idol Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: West Point, Ms Posts: 3,083	I like the doomy vocal that DO has there should be no need for them the re-record it. Why waste time with a remake? __________________ When there is nothing left to burn you have to set your self on fire.

October 5th, 2011, 01:10 PM	#22 (permalink)
Lisra starlight spectre Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Nijmegen, Netherlands Posts: 2,009	The drums always sounded kinda weak to me, especially when compared to the head-smashing snare sound of LFDGD. __________________ Don't die for anything less than the best of life albums I actually bought

October 5th, 2011, 11:13 PM	#23 (permalink)
Francis Xavier Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 146	The drums always sounded kinda weak to me, especially when compared to the head-smashing snare sound of LFDGD. One of the strengths of the album; the tone of the album is fairly monotonous yet combined with some lively rhythms. The snare is awesome; TGCD has some of those moments but more nuanced, subtle use of the snare.