Techniques / theory discussion - Page 2

Lord Tim · March 6th, 2006, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nebulous

Though, it does explain why the tone is a bit "thin" and almost sounds like its got phase problems, thats why i thought you useda distance mic method.

HA! OK, so until you heard it was digital distortion, "The guitar tone sounds realy nice, lots of tubey-ness." ?

The tone is thinner to make way for the bass and was intentionally EQ'd like that.

Quote:

Are you planing on using real amps for the last Dungeon/ first Lord albums?
I really hope so.

Yeah, I'll be using larger diaphram condenser or Sennhieser MD421 placed a few feet away from the cab.

/tease

Nah, seriously, the main reason we used DI stuff was because we never had the budget to record quads. Our money would go into the MUST-DO-IN-A-STUDIO stuff, like drums and vocals. How we record from now on will depend on how much money we have.

But like you suggested there, if people don't know what it is, they won't know if they're supposed to not like it!

Aqualung · March 6th, 2006, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DougieHammett

You didn't have to increase

It was already there

Anyone who is not a god wanna comment?

Certainly!

For me, it was singing along with Ian Gillan in Child in Time By Deep Purple. Imitating aspects of other singers voices and trying to figure out how they achieve certain things by way of comparison with how it felt to me was how I did it. If something felt uncomfortable, I approached it very slowly and cautiously, and if something hurt, I stopped and rested and a bit later tried something else.

Everyones muscles, bone structure, and ligaments are at least slightly different, like fingerprints, and in a way, everybody's voices are "already there".... to me it's more about finding out how to use what u already have! There are many singers with solid techniques and great voices who all sound different, and not all of them have stratospheric ranges. It's good to work on ur range and stuff (lower range and mids are just as important!) but u should always try and balance the type of singer u WANT to be with the type of singer u CAN be. The only way to find that out is to sing as much as possible and to keep pushing ur voice in the right direction... if ur a natural like Tim, u can probably figure it out on ur own, if ur like I was (the age where ur voice hasn't quite settled down after puberty) or Roy Khan, James Labrie etc, a few lessons might help, just so u can get the opinion of someone who's experienced, at least to help get u started.

Keeper of the Seven Cheese · March 6th, 2006, 12:29 AM

I used a book and it helps alot I just wanted to know what others said. I am getting there just need more practice. I naturally could hit high notes but not with all that much power. Sometimes I accidentally force my chest voice too high and it fucks me up. I do work on middle and lower range actually.

Aqualung · March 6th, 2006, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DougieHammett

I used a book and it helps alot I just wanted to know what others said. I am getting there just need more practice. I naturally could hit high notes but not with all that much power. Sometimes I accidentally force my chest voice too high and it fucks me up. I do work on middle and lower range actually.

Working ur chest voice up higher bit by bit can really help u though. If u do it gradually, u'll be able to get more power out of that range where ur voice may sometimes "break" to head voice/falsetto. I never have any problems with that part of my range anymore, partially because of that. Depending on the part (ie- if its a part that keeps ascending higher and higher) I may mix in more and more "head" voice as I go up to avoid the break on a bad day.

I try and use my chest voice as much as i can, because I find sometimes that relying on head voice too much can be tiring if I'm sick or something, since when doing so ur vocal chords are being streched thinner to produce the higher pitched sound, and the muscles doing the stretching are "fresher" the less u have to rely on them (of course, with any muscle, u can work at it gradually to make it stronger, though there is a limit). Doing excersises with this also helped me get my high range more even and "powerful". Everyones different though... I used some books a few years ago which helped me a lot too.

Lord Tim · March 6th, 2006, 12:40 AM

^^ Great advice!

Keeper of the Seven Cheese · March 6th, 2006, 12:57 AM

If you are using full chesty voice up higher and not just a heavy blend that is really not good for your cords if you are singing always. By forcing up you are not allowing the cords to adduct which puts unneccesary strain on them.

When you use head voice your cord NEVER and I repeat NEVERRRRR stretches. The end of your chest voice is when it stops stretching, at this point it merely adducts like a zipper. Chest voice up there will also make you become more nasal around that note. Now I love Bruce alot but he also forces too much chest into his voice which makes him sound like he is choking the notes off sometimes.

What I do is work on a 3 step system.
1. Strengthen Falsetto
2. Transcend from Falsetto to Full Voice. (Building up resonance until the cords switch into full voice.
3. Strengthen the Full voice. (Sirens, arpeggios etc.)

This is Jaime Vendera's system.

The forcing the chest voice up may help you guys but its not in the best interest of your vocal health.

Aqualung · March 6th, 2006, 01:00 AM

Well, there goes my theory, that's what happens I guess when u stop taking lessons!!

On a side note, I will say that Lord Tim is the most consistent live vocalist I've ever heard, so how can what he's doing be incorrect?

JausmetalJ · March 6th, 2006, 01:16 AM

Cool thread Tim.

Just a few questions....
Todd, whats a double stroke?

What are some begginer excersises to start singing with?

Dougie gave me one where you like, purse your lips and hum/"aah" out, while your lips "Raspberry" or something..

On the topic of Jazz, I can't really stand listening to alot of it, but without being hypocritical (To my "Closeminded people" thread) I will listen to something a bit before deciding.

My guitar teacher has got me listening/learning to Django Reinhartd's "Minor Swing" which is a really good tune.

I like stuff like flamenco/Jazz fusion, Expecially the threesome of Al Di Meola, Paco De Lucia and John Mclaughlin.

TheDenimRager · March 6th, 2006, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JausmetalJ

What are some begginer excersises to start singing with?

This is a good question. I'm trying to teach myself to sing at the moment and its definitely a difficult area to start on. There's plenty of advice for existing singers around but no resources for beginners.

petrucci_dude · March 6th, 2006, 01:19 AM

Dougie, you singing God, shut up and stop asking questions then correcting people's answers.

March 6th, 2006, 12:40 AM	#30 (permalink)
Lord Tim Proud New ESP Endorsee Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Wollongong, Australia Posts: 14,423	^^ Great advice! __________________ LORD: website . UM forum . MySpace NEW ALBUM "ASCENDENCE" - OUT NOW IN AUS & JAPAN! Got the hunger but we're wanting more Forever reaching higher Remember what we're fighting for The writing on the wall is Set In Stone

March 6th, 2006, 01:00 AM	#32 (permalink)
Aqualung You can't bring me down! Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Sitting on a park bench in Sydney Posts: 1,186	Well, there goes my theory, that's what happens I guess when u stop taking lessons!! On a side note, I will say that Lord Tim is the most consistent live vocalist I've ever heard, so how can what he's doing be incorrect? __________________ -Transcending Mortality Website -Transcending Mortality on MySpace.com Last edited by Aqualung : March 6th, 2006 at 01:10 AM.

March 6th, 2006, 01:16 AM	#33 (permalink)
JausmetalJ Call Me James Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Aust, VIC, Melbourne Posts: 2,359	Cool thread Tim. Just a few questions.... Todd, whats a double stroke? What are some begginer excersises to start singing with? Dougie gave me one where you like, purse your lips and hum/"aah" out, while your lips "Raspberry" or something.. On the topic of Jazz, I can't really stand listening to alot of it, but without being hypocritical (To my "Closeminded people" thread) I will listen to something a bit before deciding. My guitar teacher has got me listening/learning to Django Reinhartd's "Minor Swing" which is a really good tune. I like stuff like flamenco/Jazz fusion, Expecially the threesome of Al Di Meola, Paco De Lucia and John Mclaughlin. __________________ LONG LIVE DUNGEON!

March 6th, 2006, 01:19 AM	#35 (permalink)
petrucci_dude teh shredz0r Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Sydney, Australia. Posts: 2,882	Dougie, you singing God, shut up and stop asking questions then correcting people's answers. __________________ Pandora - www.myspace.com/pandorametal Outworld Street Team - http://www.myspace.com/outworld_st LFTB Radio Show - http://www.myspace.com/livefromthebush

March 6th, 2006, 12:29 AM	#28 (permalink)
Keeper of the Seven Cheese Douglas The Dairy Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 5,233	I used a book and it helps alot I just wanted to know what others said. I am getting there just need more practice. I naturally could hit high notes but not with all that much power. Sometimes I accidentally force my chest voice too high and it fucks me up. I do work on middle and lower range actually.

March 6th, 2006, 12:57 AM	#31 (permalink)
Keeper of the Seven Cheese Douglas The Dairy Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 5,233	If you are using full chesty voice up higher and not just a heavy blend that is really not good for your cords if you are singing always. By forcing up you are not allowing the cords to adduct which puts unneccesary strain on them. When you use head voice your cord NEVER and I repeat NEVERRRRR stretches. The end of your chest voice is when it stops stretching, at this point it merely adducts like a zipper. Chest voice up there will also make you become more nasal around that note. Now I love Bruce alot but he also forces too much chest into his voice which makes him sound like he is choking the notes off sometimes. What I do is work on a 3 step system. 1. Strengthen Falsetto 2. Transcend from Falsetto to Full Voice. (Building up resonance until the cords switch into full voice. 3. Strengthen the Full voice. (Sirens, arpeggios etc.) This is Jaime Vendera's system. The forcing the chest voice up may help you guys but its not in the best interest of your vocal health.