the election, and stuff..

[MetalWarriorSteve]

Hail all,

Tim says it well. We all lead individual lives. I respect that everyone has a right to an opinion and I expect to be given the right to express my opinion.

YOU Brian are expressing how I should be censored for having my opinion and censored from notifying the people of some facts and leave you to go on endorsing the Labor Party. On top of that you want to mislead people and have them think I am saying things that I am not.

On top of that you are trying to get people I represent in business to think I am saying what I am not. They know better then that. There are views I share with some people, there were views I disagreed with with ex-members (don't go making up stories that I got him out because of it) and there are people that don't get into politics. Everyone has a choice and has a right to it.

You go on saying that you are should Dungeon would not appreciate what I am saying and they'd be getting pissed... well, you got your answer. On the other hand, you are the one that is going out trying to interpret Dungeon songs as being what you would like them to be about.

Fact is, even if they were endorsing what I oppose, I would respect them unlike your type of people that would boycott/ban something even if it was moderately right.

[phlogiston]

Originally Posted by MetalWarriorSteve

It's not one in the same thing and there was only LEFTist which is now an ex-member of that band.

I very much DOUBT that you'll get members of that band endorsing the ALP here or anywhere and I am aware of their political views.

Well, it's a good thing that LT has already pointed out that you guys don't speak for each other, otherwise I'd think that you were speaking for them.

Originally Posted by MetalWarriorSteve

I live in a country where I am free to express my political views and I shall do so and no Commie admirers are going to stop me whilst this country is free.

Yep, you do. And I'm glad you do. I hope I continue to do so as well. I'm assuming that I'm one of the commie admirers that you're talking about, but rest assured I would never seek to silence you or your point of view. For all the heat that this thread has generated, I've genuinely enjoyed it. I've learnt something, if nothing else. And just so you know Steve, and Sydo, and anyone else for that matter, I do respect your opinions, and I appreciate the time that you take to explain them. They've generally been insightful and from the heart. We're starting to get a bit personal now, which is a shame, but it's always beneficial to hear from a viewpoint that's different to your own. It holds your beliefs up to scrutiny, which can only be a good thing.

[MetalWarriorSteve]

Check now playing below: The words from a bloke that has similar values to me. A bloke that battled against the PMRC left wing movement back in the 80's!
Don't forget to ban the song now!

[MetalWarriorSteve]

Originally Posted by phlogiston

Well, it's a good thing that LT has already pointed out that you guys don't speak for each other, otherwise I'd think that you were speaking for them.

Yep, you do. And I'm glad you do. I hope I continue to do so as well. I'm assuming that I'm one of the commie admirers that you're talking about, but rest assured I would never seek to silence you or your point of view. For all the heat that this thread has generated, I've genuinely enjoyed it. I've learnt something, if nothing else. And just so you know Steve, and Sydo, and anyone else for that matter, I do respect your opinions, and I appreciate the time that you take to explain them. They've generally been insightful and from the heart. We're starting to get a bit personal now, which is a shame, but it's always beneficial to hear from a viewpoint that's different to your own. It holds your beliefs up to scrutiny, which can only be a good thing.

Steve says: Cheers! That's what it's about. I respect that you have your opinion and the right to express it regardless of what mine is.

Unfortunately, I have to bite back if someone abuses me or tries to twist things I say and try make me look like a villian and think he's getting in the heads of people I work with... Fortunately, they are smart enough to know better.

You are smart enough to respect that I have a right to an opinion even if it differs from yours. Others think I should be cut off unless I agree with their position. If they want to abuse me, let it be known that I'll bite back.

Steve

[Spiff]

I never knew that the PMRC were left wing. I know that Tipper Gore is a Democrat and therefore on the left (or at least her husband is) but I always figured censorship was a right wing thing, unless it's LOGICAL censorship like banning child pornography, defamation against minorities and the like in which case every sensible person would be trying to get rid of it. Hmm.

In other news, how about that Family First party? They're not giving their preferences to former AMA president, former Seven News personality and Liberal candidate for the seat of Brisbane, Ingrid Tall because she's a lesbian. One of their workers was also disciplined for answering "yes" to a question about whether Family First supported lesbians being burned to death.

http://www.news.com.au/common/story_...E36277,00.html

http://www.news.com.au/common/story_...E36277,00.html

Unfortunately I can't find a link to the article about the Family First member who said that we should be praying against the evils of, amongst other things, brothels, freemasons and mosques. That one was a doozy.

[Mark]

I don't believe the PMRC was affiliated with the Democrats - it was just a bunch of bored Washington wives who decided to speak up; their very ideals point to them being right wing, even if Tipper was married to a (moderate) Democrat.

[Shannow]

Blacky summed them up pretty well.

[Cyclonus]

Guess who I will be voting for.

[Winmar]

This is the biggest load of shit I've ever read. Not just the bit I've quoted, but the whole lot.

Originally Posted by MetalWarriorSteve

D-day approaches,

The ALP is for people who THINK they are voting for the working class and better public health, schooling, social welfare etc. That's what the ALP claim... they promise what they can not eventually fund and then end up being liar's and screwing you over. Then after years of destroying the economy, the Liberals have to stand strong and repair the damage. With ALP, you are voting for LEFT wing policies that have proven destroy countries. Look at the history of Eastern Europe and South America. Examples: USSR, Yugoslavia, Cuba.

[big snip]

Steve Ravic
Metal Warriors

You have no clue, do you?

[Shannow]

Actually Winmar, I think both sides have little clue.

The conservatives should be taxing us fuck all, and letting (making) us pay for what we want. Not taxing us to hell, and then trying to buy an election.

Labor shouldn't be pushing privatisation, tollways, private health insurance etc.

They are both basically the same, with a marginally different slant on things.

When Costello wheeled in the 18 volumes of Tax Law that needed to be simplified, why did he end up with more than 18 ?

Why doesn't Latham remove the Private Health Insurance Rebate, take the $1400 that we spend in health insurance, and bank the whole lot into Medicare, giving the whole country (and not just shareholders in health insurance companies) a true Gold System ?

I'm all for voting Howard out, and that's as far as it goes.

[phlogiston]

And that's the most intelligent thing anyone has said in this thread today

[Goreripper]

Originally Posted by Mark

I don't believe the PMRC was affiliated with the Democrats - it was just a bunch of bored Washington wives who decided to speak up; their very ideals point to them being right wing, even if Tipper was married to a (moderate) Democrat.

I was of the same opinion. But apparently I don't know anything about history, politics, the economy, immigration or anything, so I could be and probably am wrong.

[Mark]

Yeah, shaddap dumbass.

[Goreripper]

[MetalWarriorSteve]

Winmar, I'm not an 'it's election time' so it's time to follow politics. I research and follow it every day. My veiws are mine and anything I claim, I provide facts.

As far as the PMRC, it was run by left wing Washington Wives whose leader was the wife of America's most high profile left wing mainstream politician.

Did you not all see Dee Snider campaining with Arnie and the Republicans? That was cool!!!

[Winmar]

Originally Posted by Goreripper

Are you aware that one of the guys who posts here in married to an Indonesian woman who had to wait nine months to come here, even though she was married to a citizen? And this happened under Howard.

Make that 14 months! It appeared they did everything they could to delay her visa going through for as long as possible. They only got their arses into gear when I cracked the shits at them. The trouble is, she's a muslim, and chances are she and her friends would have invaded Darwin at some stage. Thank god Johnny Arselicker and his mates Phillip and Amanda were there to protect our borders!

I say the above in jest, but it's really no different to the lies this appalling government has consistently spread. How anyone can vote for someone who one the one hand depicts people of certain backgrounds as being likely to be a terrorist, or just "not the sort of people I want in my country", while on the other pretending to liberate them is beyond me. It's despicable.

[MetalWarriorSteve]

Censorship: Ask my wife what it was like living in a Socialist left wing country where it was illegal for her to even listen to Metal. Where Metal was a bad Western influence on society and therefore illegal. Where opinions could lead you to jail, torture or death.

PS. Well, well... it's just been revealed that Mr. Lathams Medicare Gold can't work. Surprise, surprise... Not by the Libs but the AMA who said the ALP is trying to 'doop' the public. Not a positive sign from an organisation that can be critical of the Libs and here they are calling Labors policy a sham.

[Winmar]

But many of your 'facts' have been proven in this thread to be full of shit, Steve.

Also, it is possible to be left-wing without wishing to turn a country into a communist state. You seem to be struggling to get your head around that one.

Thirdly, I've lived in a capitalist former dictatorship, where there's no social security, and miniscule public assistance. Where is your beloved capitalism when people can't afford to eat, have to pull their kids out of school before they finish primary school, and die because they can't afford to pay for a hospital bed?

As far as housing is concerned, what use are low (though not by current world standards) interest rates when you are almost certain never to own your own house?

Croatians are no better or worse than Vietnamese, so don't try to make out they/you are. As for your marvellous soccer team, the Melbourne Knights are just flying now, aren't they?

If this appalling govt had the interests of the East Timorese at heart, they wouldn't be trying to fight over gas with them. They only think in dollar terms.

[Winmar]

Originally Posted by MetalWarriorSteve

Censorship: Ask my wife what it was like living in a Socialist left wing country where it was illegal for her to even listen to Metal. Where Metal was a bad Western influence on society and therefore illegal. Where opinions could lead you to jail, torture or death.

Again, you fail to distinguish between extremeism and the type of policies left-wingers here advocate. Please, find me one person in Australia, other than some right-wing churchy type who would try to stop anyone from listening to metal. The left here is all about tolerance; the right is all about division.

[Celestial-Todd]

Originally Posted by MetalWarriorSteve

History books are written by the winners of wars. The first aggressor and the biggest was Stalin and the Soviet Union. So why did they not bomb the commies?

It's actually a quite well known fact that powerful factions within the US and Soviet governments were just itching to launch all out war with each other for a long fucking time. I'm talking before the advent of nuclear weapons and the cold war as well. The only reason they didn't was they had M.A.D (Mutually Assured Destruction). Both sides knew that no matter who attacked first, they'd both be wiped off the face of earth.

Oh and there was the matter of that pesky little German guy named Adolf.

[Goreripper]

Originally Posted by Celestial-Todd

It's actually a quite well known fact that powerful factions within the US and Soviet governments were just itching to launch all out war with each other for a long fucking time. I'm talking before the advent of nuclear weapons and the cold war as well. The only reason they didn't was they had M.A.D (Mutually Assured Destruction). Both sides knew that no matter who attacked first, they'd both be wiped off the face of earth.

Um, dude, this post is confusing. MAD was because of the advent of nuclear weapons. Without both sides having nukes, there isn't really MAD.

[Celestial-Todd]

Oops, my bad... forgot I mentioned MAD. The point still stands though, all out war between Russia and the US would have virtually wiped them both out. There wouldn't have been a clear winner (and nuclear weapons made sure of that)

[MetalWarriorSteve]

Winmar says:
> But many of your 'facts' have been proven in this thread to be full of
shit, Steve.

Steve says: How, by you saying they are full of shit? How constructive of you..

Winmar> Also, it is possible to be left-wing without wishing to turn a country
into a communist state. You seem to be struggling to get your head around
that one.

Government owned and run = no competition = no choice = poor service =
unstisfied customers. Excluding everyone but Union members is left wing,
whether it be moderate left, Socialist or Communist and I'm against that.

Winmar> Thirdly, I've lived in a capitalist former dictatorship, where there's no
social security, and miniscule public assistance. Where is your beloved
capitalism when people can't afford to eat, have to pull their kids out of
school before they finish primary school, and die because they can't afford
to pay for a hospital bed?

Steve says: Gimme a break! I never see people from Western/Capitalist countries seeking
refuge in Cuba, China or North Korea or in the Soviet Union or Yugoslavia
back in the day. People fled those countries to be given the chance at life
in places like North America, Australia and Western Europe. If it was so bad,
why would all these people seek refuge in these countries?

Winmar says: > As far as housing is concerned, what use are low (though not by current
world standars) interest rates when you are almost certain never to own your
own house?

Steve says: If you live in OZ, you can own a home. Here in the West, you can buy a home for
as little as $140,000. With a government grant and a small deposit, it won't
cost you anymore then rent.

Winmar: > Croatians are no better or worse than Vietnamese, so don't try to make out
they/you are. As for your marvellous soccer team, the Melbourne Knights are
just flying now, aren't they?

Steve says: Here we go. Word twisting. I don't think you are reading what I am saying
properly. If the ALP offered entry to as many Croatians as they did
Vietnamese on a first come first served basis, Croatians, Italians, Greeks,
Chileans or any nationality for that matter would be just as bad if you
never carefully watched the individuals you are letting in. I never implied
that all Vietnamese were bad. Again, I repeat myself... I have a respect for
those who fled the communist regime.

I don't respect those that exploit this
country. They just happen to be in the majority because they were the
majority that migrated in that period where I think there should have been
control over who was coming in and it should have been balanced.

Melbourne Croatia Soccer Club is just fine. Australian Soccer wants to kill
off ethnic teams? Well, it won't happen. They may try it by folding the
National league but it won't make a difference.

It's unlikely any new league will survive without the ethnic clubs. In the meantime
we'll be enjoying hitting it out with the other etnic clubs in the State League. We
own everything at our club. Our assets outweigh our debts by 4 to 1. The future
is bright and my sons team is kicking butt. Undefeated Champions!!!

So all the Croatian boys from our club are leaving to play for the Croatian National team.
Pissing off the OZ coach Farina... they betrayed OZ Soccer who developed them he reckons?
Well, newsflash: These players were developed by Melbourne 'Croatia' Knights and
Sydney 'Croatia' United. OZ Soccer has tried to kill these clubs off and some of our
boys are not happy about it! Australia is losing it's best players to countries like Croatia
and Italy.

Even my son is saying he wants to play for Croatia when he grows up and not Australia.
My beloved club is and always will be strong. Sorry to disapoint you.

AND back to politics. The AMA issued a statement that the Medicare Gold package is
undeliverable. It can't work. That's an Independent Medical Association... AND
The Iraqi government has just thanked Australia for it's military support.
These people are thankful for being liberated and that's what matters most!

Steve

[Goreripper]

Originally Posted by MetalWarriorSteve

I did NOT say anything about Indonesian people and I did not say all Vietnamese were crims.

Perhaps not, but you did say this:

Originally Posted by MetalWarriorSteve

the highest percentage of crime comes from the Vietnamese community

and this:

Originally Posted by MetalWarriorSteve

under Labor 80% of immigrants were from Asia (namely Vietnam) and the majority unskilled and now on benefits. That is a fact.

That is NOT a fact. 80% of immigrants "under Labor" were not from Asia. According to the census figures, the region of origin of the highest number of migrants to Australia in 1991 - 1992 (under Keating) was Europe and the former USSR, with 25%. SE Asia (including Vietnam) accounted for only 20%. According to figures I found on a UNESCO site, under Whitlam between 1974 - 1975, the highest percentage of migrants (42.2%) came from Ireland and the UK. Under Hawke between 1984 - 1985, the highest percentage of migrants came from the UK (14.9%), NZ (11.6%) and Vietnam (10.9%). The percentage for the whole of Asia for the period 1984 - 1985 was only 32%. Under Keating, the percentage of migrants from Vietnam had dropped to only 7.4%. This is a far cry from your claim of 80%.

Originally Posted by MetalWarriorsSteve

Our Northern neighbours were sniffing around during the ALP rule. Instead, we have gone North and given freedom to East Timor instead of being invaded ourselves.

That reads like it's about Indonesia to me. Perhaps if the Australian LIBERAL government had done more to stop East Timor being invaded in the first place, then we wouldn't have had to go there 24 years later and help with the liberation process.

And please stop saying I have "issues" with you. I don't have issues with you at all, unless you're saying boneheaded things. Just because I criticise you at times, doesn't mean I have an issue with you.

[Goreripper]

Originally Posted by MetalWarriorSteve

Winmar says:
If the ALP offered entry to as many Croatians as they did
Vietnamese on a first come first served basis, Croatians, Italians, Greeks,
Chileans or any nationality for that matter would be just as bad if you
never carefully watched the individuals you are letting in. I never implied
that all Vietnamese were bad. Again, I repeat myself... I have a respect for
those who fled the communist regime.

Under the ALP in 1993 - 94, the percentage of migrant intake from the former Yugoslav Republic was 7% - only 0.8% less than those coming from Vietnam. If you want to know where I got these figures, you can check them here:

http://www.unesco.org/most/apmrnwp5.htm