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Old October 2nd, 2004, 03:59 AM   #1 (permalink)
Blitzkrieg
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the election, and stuff..

OK, I am not very knowledgable when it comes to politics, so someone tell me everything there is to know about who I can vote for. I think pretty much everyone here will tell me Labour, but what I want to know is why, why Labour.
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Old October 2nd, 2004, 04:20 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Labor - They're on the small "l" liberal side of things, representing the working man, the battler, the little bloke blah blah blah. Strong supporters of the welfare state, the arts, free medical care, hospitals, schools...

Liberals - They're the conservative guys. Big business supporters, tax breaks for the rich, privatisation, pre-emptive military strikes...

Nationals - The conservative's conservative party. Strong supporters of the farmers and the man on the land. They're also in bed with the Liberals, so a vote for them is a vote for the Liberals

Democrats - Dead ducks. Tried too hard to be the "alternative" party from the other two, now they're a spent force. A vote for them is a vote wasted

Greens - Further to the left than Labor. Environmental policies are strong. THey're hippies basically.
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Old October 2nd, 2004, 04:24 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Because for the last 3 terms Liberal has reamed you harder than a fat 35 year old prison inmate, lets start with the GST and double dipping, then look at what they have done to Medicare, then what they have tried to do to Unions and so on... Labour is a party that has always supported the workers and families of this country because they know that is what is the foundation of this once great nation, as for the Libs, the cunts are only there to look after their rich mates and make sure thay are making as much fucking money as possible while fucking you, me and every other hard worker in this ONCE GREAT NATION!
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Old October 2nd, 2004, 04:44 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Southy has explained it far more eloquently than I ever could.
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Old October 2nd, 2004, 04:49 AM   #5 (permalink)
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OK, so a vote for Labour this time around is more to stop being further screwed in the future than for any particular policies or anything like that?
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Old October 2nd, 2004, 04:52 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Not really, the Labour party are going to start the healing process and try and bring around changes tha will hopefully lead back to free Medical and shit like that
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Old October 2nd, 2004, 04:54 AM   #7 (permalink)
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And cheers Gorey, good to know im not the only one with a rancid hatred for our Government
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Old October 2nd, 2004, 08:37 AM   #8 (permalink)
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John Howard is a cocksucker.
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Old October 2nd, 2004, 08:38 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Actually, I'm pretty sure he frowns on that sort of behaviour...
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Old October 2nd, 2004, 10:11 AM   #10 (permalink)
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the only reason you need to vote labour is because that will get howard out of office.

I hate that little cunt.
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Old October 2nd, 2004, 04:02 PM   #11 (permalink)
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This is the way I see it: The incumbent Prime Minister has actually handled the economy quite well. He's managed to keep the country afloat and interest rates down while other places like the US wallow in a recession. That's actually quite an achievement. He also introduced the first home buyers' scheme which has been a boon to the building industry. But let's look at what else he's done. He introduced the GST, which, despite Government rhetoric has increased taxes. It was meant to replace the sales tax on many luxury items, but it's actually raised the cost of most things, including adding a tax to a bunch of stuff you never had to pay a tax on before, like train tickets, taxi travel, phone calls, haircuts, buying insurance, booking a hotel room, or anything that constitutes a "service". He reduced incentives for doctors to bulk bill, blowing out the costs of Medicare and reducing free health services to places that need it. As an example, there is now only one doctor's surgery in the entire upper Blue Mountains area that accepts Medicare. This is an area where the majority of people are low- and middle-income earners, who can't necessarily afford $45 doctor's fees each time one of their 2.6 children gets sick. He has attempted to reduce Government spending by selling off profitable Government assets like Telstra while millions a year are still being lost through shipping companies he can't give away. He got us involved in a potentially long, drawn out war that can't be won. The first home buyer's scheme is great for people who already have savings, but by raising taxes through the GST, putting a strangehold on wages and squandering money on "terrorists awareness" campaigns that are laughable at best, thousands are still struggling to buy their own homes and many never will. He introduced the work-for-the-dole scheme that's proven to be an utter failure as legitimate job-seekers are put on useless re-skilling programmes and made to clean gutters and mow lawns for a measly amount instead of being helped to find a real job and bludgers still mooch around wasting their dole on smokes, booze and dope. He villified people fleeing torment and injustice in their homeland by telling the country they were throwing their children into the sea, then lied about a cover-up, then lied again when the cover-up was uncovered. And there's a strong possibility that if he gets elected, he'll hand over to someone else before the end of his term. Besides which, he's had eight years. It's time to get rid of him.
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Old October 2nd, 2004, 07:18 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I dont even know if I can be bothered voting this time.
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Old October 2nd, 2004, 08:01 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goreripper
He introduced the work-for-the-dole scheme that's proven to be an utter failure as legitimate job-seekers are put on useless re-skilling programmes and made to clean gutters and mow lawns for a measly amount instead of being helped to find a real job...
As far as I am *personally* concerned this is kicker. (Even then, it's not even personally, but it's quite a few people I know.) Having worked for Ansett (and that debacle is another reason to get rid of him) in the highly regarded IT shop and seeing a huge number of highly talented and intelligent people being strongarmed into assembling TV antennas and cleaning gutters to feed their families instead of being helped in their field is heartbreaking.


And with the antenna assembler, they told him he had to do it and couldn't do anything else in the meantime, but it took 5 or 6 to put him on!

The he found 6 weeks contract work doing what he does best, he had to jump through all sorts of hoops to be able to take it. I think he ended up just telling his "employers" what was going on and not going back.

The other thing that really concerns me is all of the cover-ups and things going on like Gore mentioned. Most of the time it's because the P.M. "doesn't know", or "wasn't told", or "was told after the fact". Once, maybe I could belive it, but for every single thing that's happened? That make me think he's a lying weasel.
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Old October 2nd, 2004, 08:11 PM   #14 (permalink)
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One day I'm gonna have to buy all you blokes a beer. Great posts Phloggy & Gorey
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Old October 2nd, 2004, 09:43 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I could also mention all the well-meaning but ultimately useless legislation he's introduced that's cost a fortune to implement like the relaxation of parallel importing laws that was meant to curb rising CD prices by allowing retailers to import music from other markets, thereby increasing competition among suppliers and reducing the monopoly of the five major record companies. All this has done is allow a flood of cheap CDs and cassettes to come in from Asia to be sold at markets and servos, while most people still buy music from chain stores whose only suppliers are the same major distributors these laws were set up to protect in the first place. Then there was the laws cracking down on illegal websites that fell apart when it was discovered that most Australian Net users download illegal porn and other offensive material from sites hosted outside the country that our laws can't touch, and that most local ISPs are responsible enough to moderate their own users anyway. Fairly minor things it's true, but they were merely knee-jerk reactions to public concerns that were ill-conceived and difficult and expensive to police. Prime Ministers aren't supposed to come up with knee-jerk, band-aid solutions to things.
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Old October 2nd, 2004, 09:54 PM   #16 (permalink)
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This is good, it is giving me some insight. Here are some questions:

For the Liberals to have stayed in so long, they must have done a few other good things for people to vote for them, or are we really that stupid?

You have talked a lot about why not to vote for Howard, which is good, but why should we vote for Latham, other than to get rid of Howard?
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Old October 2nd, 2004, 09:58 PM   #17 (permalink)
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The Liberals stayed in because nobody gives a shit about whether he lied about the children overboard or whatever when the interest rates stay so low when they are paying off the mortgage. Whoever is in power, if they run the country well economically, which by and large the liberals have, then thats all anyone cares about at the end of the day pretty much.
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Old October 2nd, 2004, 10:05 PM   #18 (permalink)
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The Liberals won in 2001 because they successfully blew the whole children overboard thing, the asylum seekers and 9/11 into a great big atmosphere of fear. The Labor party actually started the campaign in front in the polls, but because Howard and his cronies manipulated everything to look to be dangerous, and people are scared of change in times of trouble, they slipped quickly backwards and lost. It was only *after* the election that the truth of the children overboard came out.

Reasons *to* vote for Labor? Medicare, for a start. No more pandering to the rich. Education should improve, and HECS fees should stop going up every year. Better environmental policies. And Latham once punched a cabbie.
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Old October 2nd, 2004, 10:07 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Oh, you might want to look at the Greens too. They're good guys as well.
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Old October 2nd, 2004, 10:11 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Unfortunately, I use elections to punish people, not to vote for people that represent me and my region (except the last two elections, but he's about to be punished this time).

I did vote a couple of times for Peter Andren, as he answered my correspondence thoughtfully and honestly, and was prepared to stand up for my electorate on mobile phones and the like, as well as stick it to the Govt super scheme etc. But recently, he's answered with (on petrol pricing) "I understand that Labour are planning to do......., so we'll just wait and see what they find." Fine, if you want labour to run with issues, what's the point, I'll help them get in and do it.

I can't see anyone who is willing to do the right thing by me and my electorate, and Howard needs to be voted out.

Howard:
* sold us out to the Yanks on Iraq.
* sold us out to the Yanks on the "Free" Trade Agreement (no we won't take steel, but we will buy the iron ore).
* sold us out to the Yanks in buying second hand tanks that cannot be transported via rail through the Blue Mountains, and can't be driven more than a couple hundred Ks. (Add in the fact that he's signed up Billions of dollars in JSF and other equipment so that we can follow Dubya around the Middle East).
* He sold ADI to private enterprise, who promptly stripped the assets. (For those unaware, the Lithgow Small Arms Factory was built so that Australia could support herself in a conflict, by manuafacturing our own guns and ammunition.)

(THink I'll stop here)
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Old October 2nd, 2004, 10:24 PM   #21 (permalink)
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And just while I'm in a pedantic mood (again), when you're talking about the ALP, it's Labor with no 'u'.

http://www.alp.org.au/
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Old October 2nd, 2004, 10:34 PM   #22 (permalink)
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OK,
then we better start talking edumacation then.

I wish Latham had brought out a voucher system. Each school age kid gets a voucher to redeem at whatever school they want.

Wanna go to Kings ?

Sure redeem your voucher, and pay whatever the school charges on top.
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Old October 2nd, 2004, 10:38 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Spawn if you don't vote you have no right to complain about anything controlled by the government.
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Old October 2nd, 2004, 10:41 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spawn
The Liberals stayed in because nobody gives a shit about whether he lied about the children overboard
Actually the Children Overboard scandal won Howard the last election, and he only won it by a few seats (unlike when he originally won in 96 - by a landslide). People believed him when he said these terrible foreigners were throwing their kids into the sea in a last ditch attempt to invade our shores and we should keep them out, so they voted him back in. It wasn't until after the election that it was found to be a lie. The single biggest issue at the time of the 2000 election wasn't Iraq (that wasn't even an issue then). It wasn't the economy. It wasn't even the GST. Howard won the election by lying about a photo of people jumping off a sinking boat.

And I'd forgotten about the FTA Shannow. Thanks for reminding me about that. I'm sure he won't win any votes from the cane-growing sector.
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Old October 2nd, 2004, 10:45 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shannow
OK,
then we better start talking edumacation then.

I wish Latham had brought out a voucher system. Each school age kid gets a voucher to redeem at whatever school they want.

Wanna go to Kings ?

Sure redeem your voucher, and pay whatever the school charges on top.
Well we've already had some airhead Liberal backbencher from NSW suggest that all schools start charging compulsory fees. Why not make them all charge exactly the same amount? Then we can close down all the government schools, send the poor kids to the sweatshops and all the rich ones can go learn to be lawyers and politicians. What a fucking brilliant idea! I think I might get Johnny on the phone and let him know about it.
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