News / Politics

[chrisdoig24k]

Here is a thread to discuss news, politics and current events.

I'll start it off by saying this. In a slight break from tradition, I find myself agreeing with Castro and Obama ahead of Bush. The shameful restrictions placed on US/Cuba trade and people movement have seen some respite, with Cuban Americans being able to move between the two countries once a year. Now I will say it's too little too late (I would go for total free trade and regular movement) but it is a step in the right direction for both countries.

[Elliott]

We should just merge the Be'lakor and Neo forums haha :P

[VredDoesLights]

Neo'kor or Belobliviscaris

[Elliott]

A Million Dead Neo'kor Infernums.

Dawn.

[Trows]

I've already settled it by naming Candice's cat.

Ne Obe'lakoris

[Sarindria]

hehehe

[chrisdoig24k]

Originally Posted by Elliott

A Million Dead Neo'kor Infernums.

Dawn.

I thought you meant the band Dawn and began to hope they had a forum. But alas!

[gileslol]

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...83-601,00.html

ICE is expanding in much of Antarctica, contrary to the widespread public belief that global warming is melting the continental ice cap.

The results of ice-core drilling and sea ice monitoring indicate there is no large-scale melting of ice over most of Antarctica, although experts are concerned at ice losses on the continent's western coast.

with all the flawed computer modelling, hidden agendas and lack of information out there, i don't know who to believe with regard to global warming there's clearly a political movement that won't accept a conception of global warming as anything less than a new apocalypse, but then research like this comes up that throws a spanner in the works. what do you guys think, is global warming a legitimate phenomenon? and if so, is it significant enough to warrant political intervention like carbon trading/taxes?

[gileslol]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/18/te...ef=global-home

in other news, the dudes who operate The Pirate Bay got owned by a swedish court who ordered them to pay 3.5m US and spend a year in prison apparently the ratio for the case was that TPB was a 'commercially driven' enterprise due to TPB using advertising, and that the operators held offshore bank accounts.

knowing nothing about swedish law i'd imagine proving that the advertising was used simply to pay for hosting and not personal gain could be a ground for appeal, along with an audit to determine the purpose of the bank accounts.

the site's still working though my pr0nz will be uninterrupted!

[chrisdoig24k]

As for global warming, I think it's fairly well impossible to say anything for certain. I mean, there's El Nino - Southern Oscillation, the Pacific Decadal Oscillation, and THEN there's the sun, and then temperature/CO2 trends in the last ten years or so, all of which throw spanners in the works, I think it's extremely difficult to separate out what is anthropogenic and what is not. Also, there are the non-scientific political opinions (from all sides of politics). For politicians, it is a question of risk management more than anything. And unfortunately it's also a question of votes, but that's politics, not policy.
When it comes to solutions, I despise the Emissions Trading Schemes - indeed, Liberal and Labor have proposed an ETS each, but I really think there are better solutions outside the scope of an ETS. In its current form, it's pretty much going to send the high emitting industries offshore, leaving our economy worse and our climate no better.

However, here, we know that we die with the fall of the icicles...

[chrisdoig24k]

Just wishing everybody a HAPPY WORLD CAPITALISM DAY.
And would encourage everybody to reflect on the overall increase in living standards all around the world that have come thanks to the spread of markets!

[Incarnate]

In other news, CHICK CHICK BOOM

[requiem]

I was of the understanding that climate change and evolution were scientifically accepted phenomena, confirmed beyond reasonable doubt by countless tests, evidence and examples, globally. Certain sectors would have you believe both are erroneous. I think the answers by now are pretty clear...

[chrisdoig24k]

I say this before I start, and bear it in mind - I don't know whether the human-induced climate change theory is categorically true or not. And neither do any of you.

Ben, you mention 'reasonable doubt'. The IPCC findings have been shown by numerous scientists to be severely flawed. Many significant factors influencing climate have been left out of their conclusions. Not many scientists now are arguing that the IPCC models are accurate.
Secondly, the fact that in the last (roughly) ten years, CO2 has increased and global temperatures have decreased suggest that there is 'reasonable doubt'.
Thirdly, it's not the 'broad scientific consensus' that people believe it is. Over 35,000 geologists and climate scientists have noted significant reservations with the human-induced climate change theory. 35,000 people are not necessarily right. Nor are they necessarily wrong. But that does suggest that there is 'reasonable doubt' in the scientific community about the hypothesis.

And naturally, there are the bogus, emotive 'reasons' that are given by politicians and media (who have their role to play, but do accept that they're not involved in the rigorous scientific process) such as polar bear numbers (which are actually increasing now), Arctic ice changes (which is decreasing, but is anybody looking at Antarctica's ice increasing?), etc.

As I said, I do not know whether the theory is true or not. But it is unscientific to suggest that we just accept it as fact.

But, as mentioned earlier, when it comes to ACTION, it's a question of risk management rather than a question of absolutes.

[requiem]

Christoph, your statements sound as if they've come directly from the Liberal Party press office. Wait a minute!!!! I tell ya what!!1

Look, if it's all good and we're being needlessly 'emotive' then I'll be the first to throw on the Polar Bear steaks at my over heated and power sucking (new) house. But like you say, if it is a question of risk management then we need to deal with this. And unless one is from the pro-business-at-all-costs right, climate change is pretty much a reality and we should just get on with sorting out exit strategies. 35,000 may (or may not) have doubts, but why is the general scientific opinion screaming that climate change is a reality?

Your pro-business and free trade obsession is well enough known to cast doubt on your motives and sources. You know I love you ice-man, but your political and social views are about as predictable as the party line you draw them from.

[Magero]

Originally Posted by chrisdoig24k

However, here, we know that we die with the fall of the icicles...

HAH
I GET IT

/has nothing else to contribute

[chrisdoig24k]

Originally Posted by requiem

Christoph, your statements sound as if they've come directly from the Liberal Party press office. Wait a minute!!!! I tell ya what!!1

Look, if it's all good and we're being needlessly 'emotive' then I'll be the first to throw on the Polar Bear steaks at my over heated and power sucking (new) house. But like you say, if it is a question of risk management then we need to deal with this. And unless one is from the pro-business-at-all-costs right, climate change is pretty much a reality and we should just get on with sorting out exit strategies. 35,000 may (or may not) have doubts, but why is the general scientific opinion screaming that climate change is a reality?

Your pro-business and free trade obsession is well enough known to cast doubt on your motives and sources. You know I love you ice-man, but your political and social views are about as predictable as the party line you draw them from.

Heh, I was pretty in line with Turnbull when he talked about it being an issue of risk management. That is what I had been saying for a long time, and so when I heard him say it, I was somewhat more pleased.

What I was trying to say before is that the general scientific opinion is not actually screaming that climate change is caused by humans. The scientific community is divided on it. The IPCC (international panel for climate change) is the recognised 'authority', and they agree with it, but in the general scientific community there is significant debate still.

You say that my pro-business and pro-free trade obsession can cast doubt on my motives and sources. I'm not saying we shouldn't do anything about climate change. I'm not saying that we should let business keep going as usual if they are in fact destroying the world. I said at the start of my first rant, bear in mind that I don't know whether climate change is caused by humans or not. All I am saying is that there is significant debate still and it is unscientific to consider the hypothesis to be categorically true.

And as for the Liberal business... I think you'd be slightly surprised at how much I have against the party. I certainly don't draw my views from them as you seem to suggest. I have grievances with many party members and policies, and even their general stance right now. Social views similar to the Liberal party? You've got to be kidding.

[Sarindria]

Would you guys mind having this debate while romping, bikini-clad, in a mud pit?
Just sayin'... >.<

[chrisdoig24k]

Hah, no doubt! I'm a big fan of the old wrestle/debate.

But in other news, something that is killing me to see. The NSW Rees government is putting a ban on government buying things from China in a bid to protect Australian jobs. So they'll be paying more for the items, and then punishing ALL NSW residents with the price difference. And they're doing quite a lot to produce anti-China, nationalist sentiment.
So they're essentially just arbitrarily redistributing wealth while taking a small step in the direction of protectionism.

[Elliott]

NSW REE REE REEEEEES Goverment moar like it amirite?

[chrisdoig24k]

Hah. Yes. Except that he's a dick.

Most people already know, but Peter Costello is not standing for Higgins at the next election.

[chrisdoig24k]

I hope everybody has seen this absolutely splendid speech by Daniel Hannan MEP.

You Tube

[gileslol]

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/poli...-1225797111012

a big 'lol' to anyone who voted labor because they wanted a 'change'

[VredDoesLights]

Yep. All they are doing is 'changing' the laws that surround the internet, internet censorship yay!

[requiem]

Hey Chris, say hello to your buddies Wilson and Nick. And pass on my prayers to Tony Abbott. I love the Liberal Party because they're so... kerazy!!!