Zero Order Phase

Genius Gone Insane · October 8th, 2008, 01:08 PM

Great CD, great production, great job again Neil! Loomis is clearly more evolved than the rest of us.

BenMech · October 10th, 2008, 09:08 AM

It's a fine shred album, even that Fretless solo on track 5 couldn't ruin it

Liverslapper · October 11th, 2008, 01:24 PM

Good stuff it is

SliderJeff · October 23rd, 2008, 07:01 AM

I absolutely agree, in fact I bought it yesterday and have been listening to it non-stop ever since.

NK, I'd love to hear whatever details you would like to share about the recording process, gear and stuff that you used on this. I know Jeff is now endorsing Engl amps and I believe I had seen/read/heard that you used a Powerball head to record this cd, is that right? Any other amps used? Did you double or quad-track the rhythm like I believe most of the Nevermore stuff is done? How was recording Manring and Jarzombek, or were you involved in that?

All in all, I love the sound you got on the cd. Continued success in all that you do, Neil!

Regards,
Jeff

NK · October 26th, 2008, 10:57 AM

Just saw this thread - thanks guys!

We used an Engl SE (EL34 model) for ALL the electric guitars on this record, rhythm, lead and cleans. We used different amounts of rhythm guitars per track, and per part, usually between 2 and 4.

I wasn't physically there to record either Michael or Ron, as I sent the tracks out to them and they did their thing in their own studios. I've done a couple of records with Michael, and he's an absolute joy to work with. I've never met or worked with Ron, but I hope to one day. Both guys are certainly consummate professionals.

Cheiron · October 29th, 2008, 06:15 PM

I don't recall saying it in any public place, so I'll say it here. Cashmere Shiv is the best sounding song, and the best instrumental song, I've heard all year. Didn't realize this was the one you played on till Ben mentioned it.

NK · October 29th, 2008, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheiron

I don't recall saying it in any public place, so I'll say it here. Cashmere Shiv is the best sounding song, and the best instrumental song, I've heard all year. Didn't realize this was the one you played on till Ben mentioned it.

Thanks a lot. Actually, to be honest, apart from Mark's drums and the guest appearances by Michael, Ron and Pat, the remainder of the album was performed by Jeff and myself.

Jeff did all the guitars and the bass, which was an astonishing amount of work. He also already had several of the keyboard bits and pieces worked out, that simply needed a bit of re-voicing and tweaking.

I did the remainder of the keyboards and all the orchestral arrangements, which was great fun. I certainly consider myself extremely fortunate to ALSO be able to contribute a guitar solo in addition to that stuff.

It's always fun to play on records, and particularly with musicians for whom you have such a high regard.

Genius Gone Insane · November 5th, 2008, 07:17 PM

The drums sound super clean. Were they done on an electronic kit?

NK · November 5th, 2008, 07:23 PM

No, it was an acoustic kit. I forget what type of drums they were though (I'm terrible with drums, LOL). I'll find out from Mark and post the info, ok?

KeithTidd · November 9th, 2008, 01:57 AM

hey neil, what reverb are you using on the toms? it sounds like you use it for most of the metal stuff you do. It sounds similar to nile and akercocke's toms. I love it, it's a 480l right? if so, which patch is it?

NK · November 9th, 2008, 09:37 AM

I'll usually try out several different reverb units on each project to find the right one. For the tom reverb on ZOP I actually used the D-Verb plugin within PT.

I really don't have one patch or unit that I use all the time. To be honest, depending on where I'm mixing, a particular unit might already be in use in another room, or out being repaired etc. At that point you have to have a Plan B or even a Plan C. As a result, you can end up using different units and different patches.

For both the Nile and the Akercocke, I did use a 480L for the tom reverb. As with any drum reverb unit, I modify the patches according to how the drum sounds "hit" the reverb. Some patches that I've used over the years include "A Plate", "Snare Plate" and "Small and Bright", but if you spend a little time you can actually make all of those sound virtually identical. Therefore, I select the patch according to the sound of the toms (same with the snare as well etc.) once I've got the EQ pretty close. Then I modify both the patch and the drums accordingly after that. It's very seldom that a factory preset will work without any fine tuning, but the presets are a good starting point and can be tweaked from there.

For the last few years quite a few of my reverbs have been generated within PT, even when I'm not mixing completely ITB. I enjoy doing it that way, simply because I can then recall all the reverbs and delays exactly, and the third dimension is often one the most time-consuming things to set up or re-create. Quite often, for some mixing projects, I find that I haven't got enough "old reliable" outboard reverb units, so I'll use others from within PT as well. I remember doing a mix years ago at a studio I'd never worked at before, and they had a couple of units out of commission, so I ended up using only ITB reverb. It worked out great.

KeithTidd · November 10th, 2008, 02:57 PM

thanks neil.

Dendura · November 11th, 2008, 03:15 PM

Neil this album is amazing! I ordered it and agree, the drums sound very clean. I really like that drummer!
Awesome job! - See you soon!
Aziza

NK · November 11th, 2008, 03:39 PM

Thanks Aziza! Much appreciated. See you soon.

Genius Gone Insane · November 13th, 2008, 06:24 PM

Interesting about the real drums. They sound ultra clean, which is a complement to Jeff's guitars, which are super tight. They sound like Dragonforce, only I'm sure Jeff actually recorded in real time LOL.

NK · November 13th, 2008, 06:35 PM

Yep. Real drums and real guitars. No time stretching, no varispeed etc.

This is Jeff Loomis! The guy's a monster!

Need I say more, apart from "keep practising you lazy bastards!"

I-TEND-TO-DIE · November 28th, 2008, 12:42 PM

yeah
that album is awesome, sometimes I think someone mixed some "Meshuggah" into to archieve this aggressive hard sound!
but Jeff Loomis did a great job.
But stll there are also a lot of Nevermore-influences you can't deny it(Neil)..

tfrel · August 31st, 2011, 01:23 PM

Hey Neil,

What drum loop software was used for the song "departure" from Zero Order Phase?

I looking into purchasing a similar piece of software if available.

Thanks

NK · September 1st, 2011, 12:40 AM

I just built some stuff in Logic and Pro Tools

tfrel · September 1st, 2011, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NK

I just built some stuff in Logic and Pro Tools

Ah okay. So you just took real drum takes and chopped them up to make a loop?

Genius Gone Insane · May 3rd, 2012, 01:32 PM

Neil -- hope you are doing well. I had my fingers crossed you would be working on the new Loomis album, but had no such luck. Did you get a chance to listen to it? Thoughts?

NK · May 6th, 2012, 04:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tfrel

Ah okay. So you just took real drum takes and chopped them up to make a loop?

There are a few loops on that track. I didn't use any real drum takes, just loops on that song.

NK · May 6th, 2012, 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Genius Gone Insane

Neil -- hope you are doing well. I had my fingers crossed you would be working on the new Loomis album, but had no such luck. Did you get a chance to listen to it? Thoughts?

Haven't had a chance to hear it yet. Looking forward to it a lot though.

October 8th, 2008, 01:08 PM	#1 (permalink)
Genius Gone Insane http://www.¯\(°_o)/¯.com Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: San Francisco Bay Area Posts: 5,191	Zero Order Phase Great CD, great production, great job again Neil! Loomis is clearly more evolved than the rest of us.

October 10th, 2008, 09:08 AM	#2 (permalink)
BenMech student of the d'eh Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: the other side of elsewhere Posts: 3,421	It's a fine shred album, even that Fretless solo on track 5 couldn't ruin it __________________ Death Walks Behind You. Damn, he's a slowpoke.

October 11th, 2008, 01:24 PM	#3 (permalink)
Liverslapper w00t Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Kinnear, Wyoming Posts: 10,242	Good stuff it is __________________

October 26th, 2008, 10:57 AM	#5 (permalink)
NK Complete Bastard Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: USA Posts: 996	Just saw this thread - thanks guys! We used an Engl SE (EL34 model) for ALL the electric guitars on this record, rhythm, lead and cleans. We used different amounts of rhythm guitars per track, and per part, usually between 2 and 4. I wasn't physically there to record either Michael or Ron, as I sent the tracks out to them and they did their thing in their own studios. I've done a couple of records with Michael, and he's an absolute joy to work with. I've never met or worked with Ron, but I hope to one day. Both guys are certainly consummate professionals. __________________ Neil K. http://www.auslander.net http://myspace.com/neilkernon "If what you want from a movie is a lot of Stallone looking morose and pensive before suddenly going apeshit, then Rambo is your kind of experience"

October 29th, 2008, 06:15 PM	#6 (permalink)
Cheiron Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 5,603	I don't recall saying it in any public place, so I'll say it here. Cashmere Shiv is the best sounding song, and the best instrumental song, I've heard all year. Didn't realize this was the one you played on till Ben mentioned it. __________________ Cheiron

October 23rd, 2008, 07:01 AM	#4 (permalink)
SliderJeff Got any tacquitos? Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 98	I absolutely agree, in fact I bought it yesterday and have been listening to it non-stop ever since. NK, I'd love to hear whatever details you would like to share about the recording process, gear and stuff that you used on this. I know Jeff is now endorsing Engl amps and I believe I had seen/read/heard that you used a Powerball head to record this cd, is that right? Any other amps used? Did you double or quad-track the rhythm like I believe most of the Nevermore stuff is done? How was recording Manring and Jarzombek, or were you involved in that? All in all, I love the sound you got on the cd. Continued success in all that you do, Neil! Regards, Jeff

November 5th, 2008, 07:17 PM	#8 (permalink)
Genius Gone Insane http://www.¯\(°_o)/¯.com Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: San Francisco Bay Area Posts: 5,191	The drums sound super clean. Were they done on an electronic kit?

November 5th, 2008, 07:23 PM	#9 (permalink)
NK Complete Bastard Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: USA Posts: 996	No, it was an acoustic kit. I forget what type of drums they were though (I'm terrible with drums, LOL). I'll find out from Mark and post the info, ok? __________________ Neil K. http://www.auslander.net http://myspace.com/neilkernon "If what you want from a movie is a lot of Stallone looking morose and pensive before suddenly going apeshit, then Rambo is your kind of experience"

November 9th, 2008, 01:57 AM	#10 (permalink)
KeithTidd Robot Penis. Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Vallejo, CA Posts: 1,196	hey neil, what reverb are you using on the toms? it sounds like you use it for most of the metal stuff you do. It sounds similar to nile and akercocke's toms. I love it, it's a 480l right? if so, which patch is it? __________________ http://www.myspace.com/keithtidd http://www.soundclick.com/keithtidd My demo: http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/561383/Ke...version%29.rar

November 9th, 2008, 09:37 AM	#11 (permalink)
NK Complete Bastard Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: USA Posts: 996	I'll usually try out several different reverb units on each project to find the right one. For the tom reverb on ZOP I actually used the D-Verb plugin within PT. I really don't have one patch or unit that I use all the time. To be honest, depending on where I'm mixing, a particular unit might already be in use in another room, or out being repaired etc. At that point you have to have a Plan B or even a Plan C. As a result, you can end up using different units and different patches. For both the Nile and the Akercocke, I did use a 480L for the tom reverb. As with any drum reverb unit, I modify the patches according to how the drum sounds "hit" the reverb. Some patches that I've used over the years include "A Plate", "Snare Plate" and "Small and Bright", but if you spend a little time you can actually make all of those sound virtually identical. Therefore, I select the patch according to the sound of the toms (same with the snare as well etc.) once I've got the EQ pretty close. Then I modify both the patch and the drums accordingly after that. It's very seldom that a factory preset will work without any fine tuning, but the presets are a good starting point and can be tweaked from there. For the last few years quite a few of my reverbs have been generated within PT, even when I'm not mixing completely ITB. I enjoy doing it that way, simply because I can then recall all the reverbs and delays exactly, and the third dimension is often one the most time-consuming things to set up or re-create. Quite often, for some mixing projects, I find that I haven't got enough "old reliable" outboard reverb units, so I'll use others from within PT as well. I remember doing a mix years ago at a studio I'd never worked at before, and they had a couple of units out of commission, so I ended up using only ITB reverb. It worked out great. __________________ Neil K. http://www.auslander.net http://myspace.com/neilkernon "If what you want from a movie is a lot of Stallone looking morose and pensive before suddenly going apeshit, then Rambo is your kind of experience"

November 10th, 2008, 02:57 PM	#12 (permalink)
KeithTidd Robot Penis. Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Vallejo, CA Posts: 1,196	thanks neil. __________________ http://www.myspace.com/keithtidd http://www.soundclick.com/keithtidd My demo: http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/561383/Ke...version%29.rar

November 11th, 2008, 03:15 PM	#13 (permalink)
Dendura Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 171	Neil this album is amazing! I ordered it and agree, the drums sound very clean. I really like that drummer! Awesome job! - See you soon! Aziza __________________ Working on new album with Grammy Award Winning Producer Neil Kernon (album due out in 2009) for fans of Nevermore, After Forever, Queensryche, Orphaned Land http://www.myspace.com/denduraband Official Forum http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/dendura-457/ Check out Aziza's new project! http://www.azizaworld.com

November 11th, 2008, 03:39 PM	#14 (permalink)
NK Complete Bastard Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: USA Posts: 996	Thanks Aziza! Much appreciated. See you soon. __________________ Neil K. http://www.auslander.net http://myspace.com/neilkernon "If what you want from a movie is a lot of Stallone looking morose and pensive before suddenly going apeshit, then Rambo is your kind of experience"

November 13th, 2008, 06:24 PM	#15 (permalink)
Genius Gone Insane http://www.¯\(°_o)/¯.com Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: San Francisco Bay Area Posts: 5,191	Interesting about the real drums. They sound ultra clean, which is a complement to Jeff's guitars, which are super tight. They sound like Dragonforce, only I'm sure Jeff actually recorded in real time LOL.

November 13th, 2008, 06:35 PM	#16 (permalink)
NK Complete Bastard Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: USA Posts: 996	Yep. Real drums and real guitars. No time stretching, no varispeed etc. This is Jeff Loomis! The guy's a monster! Need I say more, apart from "keep practising you lazy bastards!" __________________ Neil K. http://www.auslander.net http://myspace.com/neilkernon "If what you want from a movie is a lot of Stallone looking morose and pensive before suddenly going apeshit, then Rambo is your kind of experience"

November 28th, 2008, 12:42 PM	#17 (permalink)
I-TEND-TO-DIE leave this world behind Join Date: May 2008 Location: a good place in germany Posts: 1,968	yeah that album is awesome, sometimes I think someone mixed some "Meshuggah" into to archieve this aggressive hard sound! but Jeff Loomis did a great job. But stll there are also a lot of Nevermore-influences you can't deny it(Neil).. Last edited by I-TEND-TO-DIE : December 1st, 2008 at 04:06 AM.

August 31st, 2011, 01:23 PM	#18 (permalink)
tfrel Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 14	Drum Sample loops on Zero Order Phase Hey Neil, What drum loop software was used for the song "departure" from Zero Order Phase? I looking into purchasing a similar piece of software if available. Thanks

September 1st, 2011, 12:40 AM	#19 (permalink)
NK Complete Bastard Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: USA Posts: 996	I just built some stuff in Logic and Pro Tools __________________ Neil K. http://www.auslander.net http://myspace.com/neilkernon "If what you want from a movie is a lot of Stallone looking morose and pensive before suddenly going apeshit, then Rambo is your kind of experience"

May 3rd, 2012, 01:32 PM	#21 (permalink)
Genius Gone Insane http://www.¯\(°_o)/¯.com Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: San Francisco Bay Area Posts: 5,191	Neil -- hope you are doing well. I had my fingers crossed you would be working on the new Loomis album, but had no such luck. Did you get a chance to listen to it? Thoughts?