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Old January 8th, 2015, 11:22 PM   #2726 (permalink)
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You know this thread wouldn't even exist if it had been 2005. Anyway, I always found these debates silly. One of my good friends would always talk about how Matt is so much better than Warrel but not really say why. I really like Matt a lot, and he is kind of "unique" in a really generic way, but his Paul Stanleyisms and overly dramatic delivery would sometimes border on camp. When I'd mention how weepy and "tear jerky" Matt would get, the response I'd get is "Warrel gets emotional too". Err yeah, but in a believable way. These debates are dumb because most of the time it comes down to vocalist vs vocalist. Iced Earth had maybe four really good albums. Nevermore has had a way higher standard throughout and even if Jon is good at picking, he's nowhere near as creative or technical as Jeff. Let's not pretend Iced Earth ever had a consistent drummer or lead player either past Something Wicked This Way Comes or that almost everything past Burnt Offerings wasn't recycled riffs.
DUDE...!!! Get out of town... you are being WAY too real to post in this thread... or, at least youre trying to be.
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Old January 8th, 2015, 11:28 PM   #2727 (permalink)
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Exclamation

Come April 26th... this thread will be 13 yrs old.... AWSOME!!!!!!
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Old January 10th, 2015, 07:26 AM   #2728 (permalink)
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that double crossover track looks pretty cool. lol
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Old January 10th, 2015, 02:55 PM   #2729 (permalink)
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Serious note, have any of the last few Iced Earth albums had at least a good track or two worth checking out?

Same goes for Opeth. Is the last album any good? I hated Heritage, despite Damnation being my favorite.
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Old January 10th, 2015, 03:27 PM   #2730 (permalink)
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Serious note, have any of the last few Iced Earth albums had at least a good track or two worth checking out?

Same goes for Opeth. Is the last album any good? I hated Heritage, despite Damnation being my favorite.
So did I, and after listening to Pale Communion five or six times, it's just not something I would ever listen to regularly. It's not a bad album at all, but it's just not an "Opeth" album, despite being written by the band with that name. The only standout track to me is "Cusp of Eternity", but that's not saying much. Damnation was completely boring to me and the last two albums are even more so.

Iced Earth hasn't really released anything kind of memorable since The Glorious Burden and Dystopia (but not really, it was just better than the previous few albums). Schaffer's best stuff is in Demon's and Wizards and everything from Something Wicked This Way Comes and before. He might be wanting to protect the environment or whatever, but he just recycles way too much.

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Old January 10th, 2015, 05:04 PM   #2731 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Det Som Engang Var View Post
Serious note, have any of the last few Iced Earth albums had at least a good track or two worth checking out?

Same goes for Opeth. Is the last album any good? I hated Heritage, despite Damnation being my favorite.
I stopped with the last featuring Barlow which had ~2-3 tracks worth checking, but nothing near what they did in the something wicked era.
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Old January 12th, 2015, 12:40 AM   #2732 (permalink)
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John, and everyone really, while IE's heyday has definitely passed, they did put out some pretty awesome tracks in the post-Something Wicked era. Horror Show, despite its cheesy thematic and riff recycling (same riff on three tracks, seriously?!), had Dracula, Wolf, The Phantom Opera Ghost. Granted, these tracks were awesome mostly because of Barlow's voice, but still.

Despite Tim Owens' solid vocal work, The Glorious Burden was a fucking coaster. The songwriting is just terrible on that album, plus all the AMERIKUH!-shit grates, especially for non-Americans. Every album has the right to a shit track, but this one is simply shitters and fillers.

Framing Armageddon, though, is a seriously underrated album. Fans were whining and crying because "It's not Barlow!", but Tim Owens sung the shingles off the roof in that one. Plus, it was a concept album that told an actual story, not the loosely-connected, half-hearted semi-concept stuff that diminished other albums. Tracks like The Domino Decree, with that epic chorus, and Ten Thousand Strong which is more catchy and head-on show that Tim Owens was every bit the vocalist Iced Earth required. Though a slight malus point for the "WAAAHHH" in the beginning. Vocalists, don't do it. Don't give in to the WAAAHHH.

Out goes Tim Owens (which in hindsight was a terrible mistake) and in comes Barlow again, to record the second Something Wicked album, The Crucible of Man. Honestly, the album was a bit of a snoozer. The carefully crafted and paced story from Framing Armageddon just deflates like a soggy cake due to the stagnant, repetitive and recycled lyrics (every track is "man is corrupt"), and musically, it's just... completely forgettable. Sure, Barlow puts down a decent performance, but you can already tell his heart wasn't in it, and the whole album is just... meh.

Out goes Barlow again, and now it's Stu Block who gets to play musical chairs behind the mic. Dystopia was decent. Had some alright tracks, but it didn't knock me off my feet or anything. Boiling Point is a good track (chorus at least, the verses are forgettable, which is typical for Iced Earth). You can tell the band is trying to adapt to Block's different vocals. He's a very good singer, but not the same type Barlow or Owens were.

On Plagues of Babylon, you can tell the band (i.e. Jon) has written music around Block's vocals, and it sounds much more confident. I wasn't impressed at first, but the more I listened to it, the more I'm liking it. Some tracks have really amazing choruses, even though the verses are, as always, the weak points. Cthulhu and The End have really evocative choruses, even if they're a bit sing-along. And then there's the absolutely awesome cover of Highwayman. Jon should generally stay away from the mic, but his crappy singing style actually fits on this one. The fact that Russell Allen, Stu Block and Michael Poulsen put down awesome performances just makes it so much better.



*ahem*

Anyway. That took longer than I'd planned. Just, you know, wanted to put it out there that while people currently feel part of the "cool kids club" by shitting on IE, their recent work really isn't all that bad. I know, you shouldn't expect them to invent new things, or to blow you away with a radical new approach to metal, but what they do, they do decently.

It's kinda funny that so many people praise Something Wicked as THE BEST Iced Earth album. Sure, it has some of the best tracks the band has ever put out, but if you take off the nostalgia goggles for a sec, you'll notice the "great track - filler - great track - filler - great track - filler" structure makes the album much less good than it could have been. And the lyrics, apart from the SW trilogy, were absolute shite. Rhyming "madness" with "sadness"? On two different tracks? Rhyming "cry for" with "die for"? Verses like "make the sadness go away / come back another day"? That's fucking elementary school crap. Schaffer's lyrics have at least matured beyond that shit stage (excluding When the Eagle Cries, of course, and its "how could they / why would they").
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Old January 12th, 2015, 03:16 AM   #2733 (permalink)
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It's kinda funny that so many people praise Something Wicked as THE BEST Iced Earth album. Sure, it has some of the best tracks the band has ever put out, but if you take off the nostalgia goggles for a sec, you'll notice the "great track - filler - great track - filler - great track - filler" structure makes the album much less good than it could have been. And the lyrics, apart from the SW trilogy, were absolute shite. Rhyming "madness" with "sadness"? On two different tracks? Rhyming "cry for" with "die for"? Verses like "make the sadness go away / come back another day"? That's fucking elementary school crap. Schaffer's lyrics have at least matured beyond that shit stage (excluding When the Eagle Cries, of course, and its "how could they / why would they").
This.

I think people praise the something wicked era mostly because of the live in athens and the chemistry the band had at the time. Even on the (many) fillers that are on something wicked, you can hear it comes from the guts of the band, which is not the case on the later albums.

The same goes for burnt offering. It has many forgettable songs, but they were very emotional. Something that was lost somewhere between horror show (phantom opera ghost had it) and the later albums.
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Old January 12th, 2015, 03:24 AM   #2734 (permalink)
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Yeah, that could be it. And let's not forget that Something Wicked was their breakthrough album, so yes, the band chemistry was ideal at the time. I still love Burnt Offerings, myself, especially how dark and bitter the music and lyrics sounded.
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Old January 12th, 2015, 07:44 AM   #2735 (permalink)
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Among the Living Dead (featuring Hansi) is a good song on the latest album. Cthulu is a cool track, too.

The Crucible of Man was a big disappointment from Framing Armageddon. It sounded much weaker. I kind of wonder if the album would have been different with Tim singing. I would think so.
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Old January 12th, 2015, 10:02 AM   #2736 (permalink)
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Yeah, that could be it. And let's not forget that Something Wicked was their breakthrough album, so yes, the band chemistry was ideal at the time. I still love Burnt Offerings, myself, especially how dark and bitter the music and lyrics sounded.
Burnt Offerings > The Dark Saga > Something Wicked

Hell, "Dante's Inferno" alone makes the album. It could be full of filler songs and still be one of the better albums because of it. It's the only Iced Earth album I listen to with any regularity.

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had Dracula, Wolf, The Phantom Opera Ghost.
Those are the only tracks I ever want to listen to on that album as well. I remember saying as much when it was released and seeing how some other people thought there were many songs that were much better, like "Damien" or "Ghost of Freedom". "Jack" would actually be pretty good too if not for the stupid lyrics.

In fact, "Dracula" was the first song I had heard and thought the album would be incredible if most of the album was like that.

Quote:
It's kinda funny that so many people praise Something Wicked as THE BEST Iced Earth album. Sure, it has some of the best tracks the band has ever put out, but if you take off the nostalgia goggles for a sec, you'll notice the "great track - filler - great track - filler - great track - filler" structure makes the album much less good than it could have been. And the lyrics, apart from the SW trilogy, were absolute shite. Rhyming "madness" with "sadness"? On two different tracks?
Mostly agree with this. I think Something Wicked was actually the first album I bought of theirs, and the opening track kind of blew me away (Barlow actually sounds like a cross between Chris Cornell and a manly Paul Stanley on that), but then it was a rather middling experience until the last three tracks. Although I didn't find the lyrics to "Burning Times" to be absolute shite. In fact, they fit pretty well with the last three. The last three tracks are the only songs my friends who I introduced them to wanted to hear too.

Oh, totally forgot about Days of Purgatory, but I'm not sure if it counts, since it's basically just rerecorded material with Barlow's vocals and a few minor changes to the guitars. Still, that album has a whole lot of worthwhile material. Probably the best thing to listen to after Burnt Offerings by itself.

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Old January 12th, 2015, 01:37 PM   #2737 (permalink)
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Thanks for that Stormo.

It's funny, because the other month I stumbled upon the "Dont Tread On Me" video. When Tim started shadow boxing I cringed and thought "What do Europeans think about this?" Oh god, it's funny.

I wish they played Damien when I saw them with all the Neverboarders in Chicago. That and Dracula. Those are the riffs that make you think "Why didn't I think of that?" So simple yet so effective. There's something about E flat tuning I don't know how to describe. It's only a half step lower than standard, but albums like Dreaming Neon Black and Horror Show sound so god damn heavy with it.
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Old January 12th, 2015, 05:50 PM   #2738 (permalink)
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Barlow killed it on the last Pyramaze record. Worth checking out.
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Old January 12th, 2015, 06:33 PM   #2739 (permalink)
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Barlow killed it on the last Pyramaze record. Worth checking out.
I could never get into that album. It's hard for me to listen to it without hearing Matt giving his all, while the music itself sounds too much like a super generic, watered down version of Iced Earth (which can be super generic too) with almost no bite in the distortion at all, but instead keyboard wankery for "oooh, atmosphere"! I also feel he's just not a fit for the band compared to someone like Lance King.
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Old January 13th, 2015, 01:06 AM   #2740 (permalink)
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Yeah, Immortal was a decent album, but no more than that. It had some good tracks, like Touched by the Mara, but overall, like Sdraw said, the vocals don't fit the sound. Lance King's vocals were more suited to the "thinner" style of Pyramaze.
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Old January 13th, 2015, 02:50 AM   #2741 (permalink)
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Every time I listen to this band I vision Wayne and Garth driving around in the Pacer.
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Old January 13th, 2015, 04:55 AM   #2742 (permalink)
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if you take off the nostalgia goggles for a sec
Damn, these goggles are so sweet! Been listening to something wicked this morning in the car, and I felt like I was a teen again. Now I wanna play roleplaying games, feel socially awkward again and have that stupid smile on my face each time I see a girl!



I will probably not last any longer though...
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Old January 13th, 2015, 07:58 AM   #2743 (permalink)
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Hey, I never said there was something wrong with Nostalgia Goggles, I'm just saying they make you get a skewed idea of an album's objective musical merit. Nostalgia Goggles can be great fun, and they should be!
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Old January 13th, 2015, 09:57 PM   #2744 (permalink)
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Oh, totally forgot about Days of Purgatory, but I'm not sure if it counts, since it's basically just rerecorded material with Barlow's vocals and a few minor changes to the guitars. Still, that album has a whole lot of worthwhile material. Probably the best thing to listen to after Burnt Offerings by itself.
i would probably say Alive in Athens over Days of Purgatory, it has most of the important old songs, and it's live so Barlow (who is in fact a giant walking talking ball of cheese disguised as a human) doesnt have as much opportunity to ruin half the tracks with his beyond cringe-worthy double vocals and 'emotional' delivery.
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Old January 14th, 2015, 09:44 AM   #2745 (permalink)
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i would probably say Alive in Athens over Days of Purgatory, it has most of the important old songs, and it's live so Barlow (who is in fact a giant walking talking ball of cheese disguised as a human) doesnt have as much opportunity to ruin half the tracks with his beyond cringe-worthy double vocals and 'emotional' delivery.
Make the sadness go away...
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Old January 21st, 2015, 06:20 PM   #2746 (permalink)
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John, and everyone really, while IE's heyday has definitely passed, they did put out some pretty awesome tracks in the post-Something Wicked era. Horror Show, despite its cheesy thematic and riff recycling (same riff on three tracks, seriously?!), had Dracula, Wolf, The Phantom Opera Ghost. Granted, these tracks were awesome mostly because of Barlow's voice, but still.

Despite Tim Owens' solid vocal work, The Glorious Burden was a fucking coaster. The songwriting is just terrible on that album, plus all the AMERIKUH!-shit grates, especially for non-Americans. Every album has the right to a shit track, but this one is simply shitters and fillers.

Framing Armageddon, though, is a seriously underrated album. Fans were whining and crying because "It's not Barlow!", but Tim Owens sung the shingles off the roof in that one. Plus, it was a concept album that told an actual story, not the loosely-connected, half-hearted semi-concept stuff that diminished other albums. Tracks like The Domino Decree, with that epic chorus, and Ten Thousand Strong which is more catchy and head-on show that Tim Owens was every bit the vocalist Iced Earth required. Though a slight malus point for the "WAAAHHH" in the beginning. Vocalists, don't do it. Don't give in to the WAAAHHH.

Out goes Tim Owens (which in hindsight was a terrible mistake) and in comes Barlow again, to record the second Something Wicked album, The Crucible of Man. Honestly, the album was a bit of a snoozer. The carefully crafted and paced story from Framing Armageddon just deflates like a soggy cake due to the stagnant, repetitive and recycled lyrics (every track is "man is corrupt"), and musically, it's just... completely forgettable. Sure, Barlow puts down a decent performance, but you can already tell his heart wasn't in it, and the whole album is just... meh.

Out goes Barlow again, and now it's Stu Block who gets to play musical chairs behind the mic. Dystopia was decent. Had some alright tracks, but it didn't knock me off my feet or anything. Boiling Point is a good track (chorus at least, the verses are forgettable, which is typical for Iced Earth). You can tell the band is trying to adapt to Block's different vocals. He's a very good singer, but not the same type Barlow or Owens were.

On Plagues of Babylon, you can tell the band (i.e. Jon) has written music around Block's vocals, and it sounds much more confident. I wasn't impressed at first, but the more I listened to it, the more I'm liking it. Some tracks have really amazing choruses, even though the verses are, as always, the weak points. Cthulhu and The End have really evocative choruses, even if they're a bit sing-along. And then there's the absolutely awesome cover of Highwayman. Jon should generally stay away from the mic, but his crappy singing style actually fits on this one. The fact that Russell Allen, Stu Block and Michael Poulsen put down awesome performances just makes it so much better.



*ahem*

Anyway. That took longer than I'd planned. Just, you know, wanted to put it out there that while people currently feel part of the "cool kids club" by shitting on IE, their recent work really isn't all that bad. I know, you shouldn't expect them to invent new things, or to blow you away with a radical new approach to metal, but what they do, they do decently.

It's kinda funny that so many people praise Something Wicked as THE BEST Iced Earth album. Sure, it has some of the best tracks the band has ever put out, but if you take off the nostalgia goggles for a sec, you'll notice the "great track - filler - great track - filler - great track - filler" structure makes the album much less good than it could have been. And the lyrics, apart from the SW trilogy, were absolute shite. Rhyming "madness" with "sadness"? On two different tracks? Rhyming "cry for" with "die for"? Verses like "make the sadness go away / come back another day"? That's fucking elementary school crap. Schaffer's lyrics have at least matured beyond that shit stage (excluding When the Eagle Cries, of course, and its "how could they / why would they").

GARBAGE....every word you typed....... hhhuuhhgggghhhghgguuuh.
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