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Old May 21st, 2005, 12:31 AM   #1 (permalink)
Decollated Pariah
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Something I have noted in the Pale Haunt Departure

In the third song, about 5 minutes or so into it, is a guitar solo, which to me sounds strikingly similar to Paradise Lost. Is this an homage? If so, I must admit, it is a very well done one, as it sounds dead on like something off of, say, Draconian Times.
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Old May 21st, 2005, 02:23 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I'm not entirely sure what part you're talking about....the third song on the album is "Autumn Reflection" which does not have any guitar solos in it. The fourth song, "Dark World Burden", has two solos in it however. Is this the song you're referring to?
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Old May 21st, 2005, 02:29 PM   #3 (permalink)
dan of bereavement
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What a weird post. And a weird question. I think I would be offended if I was asked that...lol I don't hear the resemblance.
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Old May 21st, 2005, 04:29 PM   #4 (permalink)
Decollated Pariah
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I asked because I have never heard ND ever have a part like this one, and it is so dead-on, that I noticed it immediately. I was out of the room, and came back in, and I thought someone had switched the cd on me. It is 3:40 - 4:07 on the song, and it is Dark World Burden, which I didn't quite remember since I was wearing headphones when I thought about making this post.
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Old May 21st, 2005, 08:01 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Okay....first off, I'm not offended at this. I didn't take it as being accused of ripping off PL, so no harm done there. I know what section you're referring to now. It's my guitar solo in "Dark World Burden". Honestly, it wasn't intended to have any similarities with Paradise Lost whatsoever....

See okay here's the thing...we often get alot of comparisons and comments made to us about how much we sound like or apparently are influenced by bands like Paradise Lost and Anathema. The honest truth is that we're not influenced by those bands at all. I like some of what both of those bands have done, surely. The problem I have with this is that people don't realise that in fact this is more of a case of those bands and Novembers Doom having the same influences. My lead playing is very heavily influenced by Tony Iommi, David Gilmour, Randy Rhoads, Glen Buxton, Lars from Candlemass, Michael Denner/Hank Shermann, etc. I'm quite certain that these guys are what also influenced people like Gregor from Paradise Lost, or Danny and Vince from Anathema. Age-wise I'm roughly around the same age as these guys so it's logical that we would share similarities in our influences and respective styles since we basically all grew up on the same stuff! I have heard "Draconian Times" once or twice, but honestly I'm not that familiar with it to be able to compare my work to theirs at this point.
The reason you've never heard ND have a part like that before is because, honestly, I've never really gotten alot of opportunities to play solos on our cds before. The rhythm section played underneath my solo was written by Vito, who I can tell you has barely even heard Paradise Lost before! haha seriously...If you listen to the style of my bluesy lead stuff in "In Memories Past", you'll find that the style is quite the same as my solo in "Dark World...", just bluesy/jazzy pentatonic minor stuff pretty much like Iommi and Gilmour. It's the way I've played for many years, even before I'd ever heard a note of PL. What I initially liked about PL was the fact that I could tell they were into the same stuff as I was, in fact.

So hopefully that pretty much answers your question. I'm not paying any sort of homage to Paradise Lost, if anything it's an homage to my true heroes/influences--Sabbath, Floyd, Candlemass, etc. I dare to think that Paradise Lost owes a bit of a debt to these artists as well with their writing and soloing style!
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Old May 21st, 2005, 09:28 PM   #6 (permalink)
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speaking of guitar solos...I just got done listening to Awaken, and I had to laugh when I saw this, because it gave me a chance to post. I friggin LOVE the solos/harmonies in that song...just thought I'd share.
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Old May 21st, 2005, 10:18 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Look, I would never accuse ND of ripping off other bands. The only reason I mentioned this is because to me, it sounded a bit striking, because I've always found ND to have their own style, even moreso than bands like Morgion and Mourning Beloveth. This was just one little solo in a whole album, an album that to me sounds very much so in the ND mold of things. I've never thought of ND as a clone band to any doom outfit, I was just curious about this 20 second little part.
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Old May 22nd, 2005, 01:02 AM   #8 (permalink)
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No worries here at all! We have made "mistakes" in the past, and a riff comes out sounding exactly like another bands, and we never really caught it until it was too late, and recorded. I don't think people realize just how neurotic we are about this sort of stuff. We are our worst critics on this, and always point out if some feels they have heard it before. Is it possible the lead is really close to a lead on a PL cd? Sure! And if you find thr PL song, let us know, i'd love to hear it.

If there is anyone in the band who could say he was directly by Paradise Lost, it would be me. I think Nick had of the greatest death metal voices in any band, and I loved his clarity in his voice. He inspired me to try harder, and become even more clear, if not the most easily understandable death metal vocalist out there. Nick Holmes, Troy Dixler, and Eric Wagner are my 3 biggest vocal influences.
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Old May 22nd, 2005, 03:41 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Decollated Pariah
Look, I would never accuse ND of ripping off other bands. The only reason I mentioned this is because to me, it sounded a bit striking, because I've always found ND to have their own style, even moreso than bands like Morgion and Mourning Beloveth. This was just one little solo in a whole album, an album that to me sounds very much so in the ND mold of things. I've never thought of ND as a clone band to any doom outfit, I was just curious about this 20 second little part.
In case you missed the tone of my reply, I definitely did not take it as you accusing me or the band of being clones or anything like that, just so you know. Don't get defensive because honestly I took what you said as a positive thing, even if I cannot relate to the Paradise Lost bit, I just wanted to answer your query and give an explanation of why some people might think we do copy or pay homage to PL and bands like that, that's all. It's cool.
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Old May 22nd, 2005, 04:15 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NvmbrsDoom5
The rhythm section played underneath my solo was written by Vito, who I can tell you has barely even heard Paradise Lost before!
Larry is right, I have barely listened to any of those bands like Anathema or Paradise Lost. I've heard maybe like two or three songs tops from those bands. I think it's funny that people label this new album as being like a My Dying Bride rip off, or a rip off of like the British doom bands or whatever. I'm really influenced by progressive and power metal bands. If any riff that I write sounds doomy or dark it's probably because it's influenced by Nevermore. Nevermore has some really cool shit, take for instance Dreaming Neon Black, that to me is a doomy and dark album. And they don't need to be playing two notes a minute to be "doom"
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Old May 22nd, 2005, 01:24 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I hope I didn't get everyone mad or whatnot....I had no intention of sounding dick-ish, and I wasn't implying anything there.
By the way how old are the nd members? Because there was a good point there and if you mentioned guitarists like that some of those guys were my heros growing up. Iam 29, we must be pretty close to the same age. A big one for me was Andy LaRocque too, I wish I had half his talent lol
But yeah, Candlemass, Fate, Randy Roads those type bands were it. Ohh and I can't forget James Murphy. I guess I like the more classical type playing too. But there's nothing wrong with the minor pentitonic scales man, What a great scale, no doubt the moodiest of all.
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Old May 22nd, 2005, 03:33 PM   #12 (permalink)
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As if Paradise Lost were teeming with originality themselves. Sisters of Mercy and Depeche Mode called, they want their music back.
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Old May 22nd, 2005, 10:08 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dan of bereavement
I hope I didn't get everyone mad or whatnot....I had no intention of sounding dick-ish, and I wasn't implying anything there.
By the way how old are the nd members? Because there was a good point there and if you mentioned guitarists like that some of those guys were my heros growing up. Iam 29, we must be pretty close to the same age. A big one for me was Andy LaRocque too, I wish I had half his talent lol
But yeah, Candlemass, Fate, Randy Roads those type bands were it. Ohh and I can't forget James Murphy. I guess I like the more classical type playing too. But there's nothing wrong with the minor pentitonic scales man, What a great scale, no doubt the moodiest of all.
It's cool Dan, no worries. Actually most of us in ND are in the mid-30s range, and Vito is the young'n at 23. I know alot of times we come across very defensive about these sorts of subjects, being compared to other bands and stuff like that, and I apologise. It's just frustrating for us because we started out in the scene at the same times as these bands like Paradise Lost, MDB, etc., and while we have never acheived their levels of success and whatnot, we all started with the same kinds of influences and some similar musical goals in mind. But because people didn't become familiar with our music and everything until much later, alot of people presume that we've just been copying these bands styles. I can remember trading demos with these bands waaaay back in the late 80s/early 90s, and talking about our common admiration for bands like Trouble, Candlemass, Sabbath, Celtic Frost, etc. Even though we all now have our distinct styles from one another, I think there's inevitably certain things that we all have in common as well. And I think thats pretty cool. Some people just don't want to believe or understand that just because we're not from England and just because we didnt sign with Peaceville, it doesn't mean we're some come-lately copycats. But again, I didn't take what people have said on this thread as a put down at all. The guy who started this thread was commending us for what he thought was an homage to PL and there's nothing wrong with that at all. It's just that the solo is in fact an homage to Iommi, hehehe!

I too love Andy LaRocque! I've been quite fortunate to meet and spend a little bit of time with him over the years as my roommate has been a backline tech for King Diamond since the "Voodoo" tour, and I can say that not only is Andy a master guitarist but he's very nice as well. The current KD twin guitar tandem of Andy LaRocque and Mike Wead is just MONSTROUS! If you haven't gone to see King Diamond in concert lately, you're really missing out.

I also greatly admire James Murphy too, which I guess is somewhat obvious since we chose to work with him on the recent album! Between his masterful playing, the legendary acts he's been involved with, and the way he's soldiered on in light of his health struggles, he's quite someone to admire I'd say.

Anyhow, yeah Dan you're only a few years younger than I am so I'm sure we grew up worshipping the same guitarists, apparently!
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Old May 23rd, 2005, 12:37 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Spirit Seed
speaking of guitar solos...I just got done listening to Awaken, and I had to laugh when I saw this, because it gave me a chance to post. I friggin LOVE the solos/harmonies in that song...just thought I'd share.
wow, thanks. i have a 4-trk demo i did of that song before recording The Knowing that i've been thinking about putting on the web for a while- haven't discussed it with ND yet though. it shows where the idea for the track came from, and while i can't speak for the current ND guys, i was really happy with the way the final track turned out- even better than i'd hoped.
i had a couple melody ideas for the lead lines going in to recording, but still wanted to leave it mostly improvised- chris djuricic probably hated me for that.
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Old May 23rd, 2005, 12:38 PM   #15 (permalink)
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also, anyone heard that new Candlemass yet? i read it was sort of decent, but meh.
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I'll still call them maudlin of the Well, simply because Kayo Dot is fucking gay.
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Old May 23rd, 2005, 01:33 PM   #16 (permalink)
Novembers Paul
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Eric, I think that would be very cool to for people to hear the early demo version of Awaken. That is one of my favorite songs on The Knowing. It came out perfect, so to hear the progression would be cool!
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Old May 23rd, 2005, 02:21 PM   #17 (permalink)
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ok, cool. i can rip it from cassette to computer and upload it soon. i'll let you know when there's a link.
remember though, it's a 4-trk recording from 1999 done with a Boss DR660 drum machine played real-time with my uncoordinated fingers. the tape sounds bad- lots of bass and tape hiss, but the idea is there. it was only intended as a home demo and sounds like it.
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I'll still call them maudlin of the Well, simply because Kayo Dot is fucking gay.
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Old May 23rd, 2005, 04:17 PM   #18 (permalink)
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also, anyone heard that new Candlemass yet? i read it was sort of decent, but meh.
ive heard it. I think its fuckin grand.... sounds like nightfall era \m/
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Old May 23rd, 2005, 08:45 PM   #19 (permalink)
dan of bereavement
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wow what a varied thread lol....


ok new candlemass...well, it's better than the post talse of creation stuff, but honestly, it just sounds a bit weaker...and the lyrics are a bit silly

....the black dwarffff!!!!! lol


It's cool Dan, no worries. Actually most of us in ND are in the mid-30s range, and Vito is the young'n at 23. I know alot of times we come across very defensive about these sorts of subjects, being compared to other bands and stuff like that, and I apologise. It's just frustrating for us because we started out in the scene at the same times as these bands like Paradise Lost, MDB, etc., and while we have never acheived their levels of success and whatnot, we all started with the same kinds of influences and some similar musical goals in mind. But because people didn't become familiar with our music and everything until much later, alot of people presume that we've just been copying these bands styles. I can remember trading demos with these bands waaaay back in the late 80s/early 90s, and talking about our common admiration for bands like Trouble, Candlemass, Sabbath, Celtic Frost, etc. Even though we all now have our distinct styles from one another, I think there's inevitably certain things that we all have in common as well. And I think thats pretty cool. Some people just don't want to believe or understand that just because we're not from England and just because we didnt sign with Peaceville, it doesn't mean we're some come-lately copycats. But again, I didn't take what people have said on this thread as a put down at all. The guy who started this thread was commending us for what he thought was an homage to PL and there's nothing wrong with that at all. It's just that the solo is in fact an homage to Iommi, hehehe!

I too love Andy LaRocque! I've been quite fortunate to meet and spend a little bit of time with him over the years as my roommate has been a backline tech for King Diamond since the "Voodoo" tour, and I can say that not only is Andy a master guitarist but he's very nice as well. The current KD twin guitar tandem of Andy LaRocque and Mike Wead is just MONSTROUS! If you haven't gone to see King Diamond in concert lately, you're really missing out.

I also greatly admire James Murphy too, which I guess is somewhat obvious since we chose to work with him on the recent album! Between his masterful playing, the legendary acts he's been involved with, and the way he's soldiered on in light of his health struggles, he's quite someone to admire I'd say.

Anyhow, yeah Dan you're only a few years younger than I am so I'm sure we grew up worshipping the same guitarists, apparently!


ok...i have to say i hate you...lol man you met my guitar idol...grrrr!!! lol

man that would be a dream come true. he is the man. i bow to him \m/

yeah so pretty much same guitarists growing up. hell yaeh man!
i have seen king diamond on the voodoo,hog,puppet master, and just last week...and i have seen mf about 5 times. king d. has the best live shows ever

now i just went crazy thinking about home recorders...so i'll make a thread for it, rather than make this thread more confusing than it already is...lol
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Old May 24th, 2005, 01:49 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Candlemass lyrics were always an acquired taste, in my opinion. I always liked 'em though. I'm anxious to hear the new disc.

And yeah I've seen King Diamond on all of those tours as well, great fun. Willie, my roommate, just got home from the recent tour yesterday actually. I went and saw the show a few weeks ago in Chicago, it was great. Later on the guys in the KD band gave me two cartons of eggs. Yes, eggs. Someone had given them a bunch of fresh picked eggs as a gift, and they decided that they didn't need all of them since it's not easy to cook eggs while on tour, so they gave them to me. They were quite tasty. One of the last times I hung out with them on tour (2000, I think?) they gave me a coffe maker they didnt need. I figure at this rate, if they can do a couple more tours, I'll wind up with a complete breakfast set-up, courtesy of the King. LOL

Did you pick up the Deadly Lullabyes live cd?
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Old May 24th, 2005, 01:04 PM   #21 (permalink)
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i would have loved to see that transpire.

"Hey, King! You rule!! Here's some eggs!"
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Old May 24th, 2005, 02:47 PM   #22 (permalink)
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ha ha ha....that is a bit unusual eggs...but cool non the less.

yeah the production on the live cd is huge....fakin' awesome...and the black horsemen ohhh man i wet myself hearing that live with dual acoustics and all! amazing!
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Old May 24th, 2005, 02:50 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Maybe the eggs were collected as leftovers from the pile that didn't get whipped at the king.
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Old May 24th, 2005, 03:04 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Ouch, let me tell you now, NOONE whips eggs at the King, buddy. hehe
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Old May 24th, 2005, 08:19 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Ouch, let me tell you now, NOONE whips eggs at the King, buddy. hehe
Some of my friends would, cause they can be assholes at shows. Like when they yelled out "MAGGOT TWAT!!!" during an Opeth show. The memories......
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