MIDI Flam On Snares

[selke61]

Hey guys, I'm having trouble trying to get a natural flam on snares, even so toms, but I'm not as worried about those.

I recently started using Cubase to program my drums, using the MIDI keyroll, and the GM Map. My VST host is EZDrummer, for now. I use to use Beatcraft (.wav, .ogg standalone editor) (guhhhhhhhhh I know ) and the way I would go about it is I would make two snare tracks, one pre-made to be a late hit, and then when I ticked both of them, it sounded like a natural flam.

Now that I use MIDI keyrolls, I want to know how do you go about having the snare hit twice, and making a natural, off time hit on one of the sticks, cause we all know, when you hit the snare with both sticks, one is always a later hit, hence the "flam", I guess is what you would call it.

Anyways, that's just about it. Thanks!

[gotet10]

I just put a softer hit 1/64 beat right after the initial hit on the other snare rimshot key for Slate, but in reality, I probably don't do it the right way and that might not help you in your situation lol.

[selke61]

That might actually work perfectly. I need to do this for parts where the snare is hit with both sticks, like at build ups, fills, etc. Thanks Gotet.

[setyouranchor]

Depends how fast you want it, but I keep it at like 16ths. Put your main hit in then a hit right before it, just make the velocity really low on the one before

[selke61]

Thanks Seb! I'll try it out and see if the result is something that satisfies me.

[Vinny]

I typically put the softer hit BEFORE the hard hit (the flam hit is like 1/32nd or 1/64th/ or 1/128th before the down beat, and the hard hit is on the down beat). Sounds better to me.

[selke61]

I tried it out. Sounds nice. I prefer 1/64th. Faster response, doesn't sound as laggy. I prefer to put the softer hit after the initial hit. Just sounds better and more appealing.

[Vinny]

Glad you found something that works.

I just put the softer one before since I'm used to my old band's drummer that would flam the first hit and the second would be the harder like I described.

[selke61]

Yeah, I think of it as, if you're a righty drummer, you strike the snare with your left hand typically, but if you were to hit the snare with both hands, your right hand would hit harder and it would be more of the initial hit.

[Vinny]

^^^^Precisely.

[JeffTD]

Woah woah woah, gotta correct you guys.

Your first hit needs to be on the downbeat - the point of a flam is to make the hit seem bigger, not to start earlier. This is achieved by putting the first hit on the downbeat and the second hit slightly after it.

That, and the second hit is the harder of the two. Don't believe me? Look at how a real drummer hits and then look at the waveform from the snare mic. Doesn't matter if you're right or left handed, drummers play with the second hit harder.

[mstone564]

Jeff's spot on once again.
Just out of curiosity, what velocities are your all's flam's at?
Superior or SDD kits don't really matter, both would be cool to know!

[selke61]

Originally Posted by JeffTD

Woah woah woah, gotta correct you guys.

Your first hit needs to be on the downbeat - the point of a flam is to make the hit seem bigger, not to start earlier. This is achieved by putting the first hit on the downbeat and the second hit slightly after it.

That, and the second hit is the harder of the two. Don't believe me? Look at how a real drummer hits and then look at the waveform from the snare mic. Doesn't matter if you're right or left handed, drummers play with the second hit harder.

Fuck, your right. I tried it out on my table, and my left hand kept hitting first on the downbeat. Occasionally, seeing how I'm a righty, I hit harder on my right and it would hit first, but only sometimes. But when it hits second, its still harder. So your saying the first hit should be left handed, soft, and the flam should be harder and a little after the first hit?

[gotet10]

Originally Posted by JeffTD

Woah woah woah, gotta correct you guys.

Your first hit needs to be on the downbeat - the point of a flam is to make the hit seem bigger, not to start earlier. This is achieved by putting the first hit on the downbeat and the second hit slightly after it.

That, and the second hit is the harder of the two. Don't believe me? Look at how a real drummer hits and then look at the waveform from the snare mic. Doesn't matter if you're right or left handed, drummers play with the second hit harder.

I WAS CLOSE!

[JeffTD]

Originally Posted by selke61

Fuck, your right. I tried it out on my table, and my left hand kept hitting first on the downbeat. Occasionally, seeing how I'm a righty, I hit harder on my right and it would hit first, but only sometimes. But when it hits second, its still harder. So your saying the first hit should be left handed, soft, and the flam should be harder and a little after the first hit?

It's still your right hand hitting first, at least how I/the drummer in my band/every drummer I've watched plays it. It's just the physics of how the skin reacts to two hits so close to one another, kind of like being 'launched' on a trampoline, that makes the second hit louder.

First hit should be right hand, hard, and second hit (flam by definition is both hits as one entity, not the second hit) should be left hand, harder.

Imagine when you're doing a rack + floor tom hit (assuming you're on a 4 piece) - your right hand hits first naturally because it's generally closer/your dominant hand reacts quicker. It also sounds better to have the low tom first, for whatever reason.

Now just move that same motion onto the snare - because it's on the same skin, hit #2 ends up being louder.

[JeffTD]

For the guy asking about velocities, in Superior, mine are usually like 110-115 for the first hit and 127 for the second.