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Old March 6th, 2006, 10:39 AM   #51 (permalink)
Justin S.
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Speed and FP should remain as moderators. If anything, they have been far too lenient with respect to the level of seriousness and thought that goes into most threads.

I also think they have been very even handed with controversial topics. I know that is a tough balance- anywhere else and those threads would have been deleted instantly.

I would post here regularly if I thought more than three guys were going to engage what I type, with the rest bantering about poorly developed conspiracy theories.

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Old March 6th, 2006, 11:00 AM   #52 (permalink)
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I'm happy with the way you are moderating now Speed and Final Product, you are not as quick to censor as you were - and I have accepted there are limitations to what can be said in terms of how offensive other people find it.
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Old March 9th, 2006, 12:13 AM   #53 (permalink)
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I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I appreciate and respect the moderation. Sometimes, just because you have the freedom to say something doesn't mean you should. It doesn't come down to freedom of speech and expression. Rather, just good old common sense. Which is lacking these days in all walks of life. No matter the country you come from, or how institutionally educated you are. Smarts and common sense.....along with respect.....are much different than intelligence. Just my opinion.
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Old March 18th, 2006, 10:08 PM   #54 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Winnipeg Warrior
Rather, just good old common sense. Which is lacking these days in all walks of life. No matter the country you come from, or how institutionally educated you are. Smarts and common sense.....along with respect.....are much different than intelligence. Just my opinion.
sadly it is quite frequently those that are the most institutionally educated that are actually the most lacking when it comes to common sense and respect, where they get their master's degree before joining this forum (i'm not gonna say any names) and then look down their noses at everyone else with the attitude of
"i'm better than you because i went to college and you didn't"
"my post is valid and yours isn't because i went to college and you didn't"

it was this kind of shit that made all the racial threads turn to crap
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Old March 18th, 2006, 10:48 PM   #55 (permalink)
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Personally I am happy with the moderation since the guys took over, it's been good.

On top of that, we all have a much better understanding of each other so even when we do get heated, we're all more patient because we have a better idea of each others political/philosophical stance.
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Old March 19th, 2006, 10:18 AM   #56 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LORD_RED_DRAGON
sadly it is quite frequently those that are the most institutionally educated that are actually the most lacking when it comes to common sense and respect, where they get their master's degree before joining this forum (i'm not gonna say any names) and then look down their noses at everyone else with the attitude of
"i'm better than you because i went to college and you didn't"
"my post is valid and yours isn't because i went to college and you didn't"

it was this kind of shit that made all the racial threads turn to crap
You bring up a good point here, as institutionally educated people are not necessarily any smarter or better than those not educated in a formal manner. This would actually be a good thread which you could start.


Now that being said, LRD, for the most part, you are entirely devoid of any prior philosophical knowledge or background, plus your posts are generally on a 5th grade writing level. Of course those that are a bit more educated than you, are going to point out your deficiencies--its human nature. You also seem to have an inate hostility (as in your habitual comments of this nature) to anything remotely complex or ideas removed from everyday life. This is fine, and such criticism of this nature on many topics is well deserved and a breath of fresh air, but, you do understand most things philosophical are complex, and require some background knowledge.

However, this allows you a unique perspective on things many of this do not have. Thus, what I am saying is, you are just going to have to deal with pompous behavior, know-it-all's, obscure esoteric ideas, needlessly complex things, because in many ways, this is philosophy.
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Old March 19th, 2006, 12:17 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by speed
You bring up a good point here, as institutionally educated people are not necessarily any smarter or better than those not educated in a formal manner. This would actually be a good thread which you could start.
I find that being educated in a formal manner leaves holes in your personal philosophical ideas and thoughts. You tend to build a basis off of other philosophers, and from there, (this does not apply to all of you, from what I've seen) some of these people become ignorant and one-dimensional towards other ideas and such. I for one have never been formally educated, nor have I ever read anything philosophical up until the last few weeks. Except the Bible, listening to church sermons, and I have been high-school educated. I never took any philosophy classes or anything of the kind.

Of course this does not apply to everyone, because people including myself will begin to study philosophy with an already strong and structured basis.
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Old March 19th, 2006, 07:26 PM   #58 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnvilSnake
I find that being educated in a formal manner leaves holes in your personal philosophical ideas and thoughts. You tend to build a basis off of other philosophers, and from there, (this does not apply to all of you, from what I've seen) some of these people become ignorant and one-dimensional towards other ideas and such. I for one have never been formally educated, nor have I ever read anything philosophical up until the last few weeks. Except the Bible, listening to church sermons, and I have been high-school educated. I never took any philosophy classes or anything of the kind.

Of course this does not apply to everyone, because people including myself will begin to study philosophy with an already strong and structured basis.
thank you
this is exactly what i was trying to say in post 54

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Old March 19th, 2006, 11:15 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LORD_RED_DRAGON
sadly it is quite frequently those that are the most institutionally educated that are actually the most lacking when it comes to common sense and respect, where they get their master's degree before joining this forum (i'm not gonna say any names) and then look down their noses at everyone else with the attitude of
"i'm better than you because i went to college and you didn't"
"my post is valid and yours isn't because i went to college and you didn't"

it was this kind of shit that made all the racial threads turn to crap
Unfortunately, I can name far too many good people that have strong academic credentials from prominent institutions.....that will never achieve any semblance of financial or personal success. Theoretical understanding does not equal practical experience. Simply stated, you may be able to identify and define all the elements and components of a light bulb. But when the time came, would you have the common sense to turn off the power and replace that very bulb? Of course, this is just a generalization. But many highly educated people would even have challenges understanding the very point I'm trying to make right now.

But if the shoe fits.....
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Old March 20th, 2006, 07:09 AM   #60 (permalink)
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I recall an interesting story in a biography of Bertrand Russell.

He was visiting friends one week during the autumn months, when all of a sudden they needed to dash from the house for an afternoon. Worried at being left alone, Russell asked; "who shall make my afternoon tea?!" (It being a well known fact that Russell MUST have a cup of tea every afternoon, lest he become cranky) In response, his hosts replied: "You shall, dear Bertrand!", to which he replied; "But I do not know how!".

Confused by the situation whereby such a brilliant mind could not make his own afternoon tea, his hosts proceeded to lay out all of the utensils and pots etc and made a detailed, step by step guide on how to make the tea and then dashed off to their destination.

When the arrived several hours later, Russell was in an awful state and the tea remained un-made.

The stories of impractical philosophers are endlessly amusing
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Old March 21st, 2006, 11:54 PM   #61 (permalink)
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A note on forums:

Survey topics like "What are your favorite movies?" are always popular but never attract quality. Yes, this may sound fascist, but in my experience, it's true: users naturally make forums into places more like the other places they've been, and in doing so, crush what made those forums unique or worthy.

FYI
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Old March 21st, 2006, 11:56 PM   #62 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by AnvilSnake
I find that being educated in a formal manner leaves holes in your personal philosophical ideas and thoughts.
I think it depends on the person. We're not all the same. Some take to education, others fight it. What matters to my mind are two things - discipline and raw inclination. A 120-point serf will never have the same thoughts as 150-point aristocrat, and neither will produce anything unless they undertake a rigorous study.

From experience, FYI, YMMV, HIV, again.
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Old March 22nd, 2006, 03:35 AM   #63 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infoterror
I think it depends on the person. We're not all the same. Some take to education, others fight it. What matters to my mind are two things - discipline and raw inclination. A 120-point serf will never have the same thoughts as 150-point aristocrat, and neither will produce anything unless they undertake a rigorous study.

From experience, FYI, YMMV, HIV, again.
I did go on to say it does not apply to everyone. Although I didn't state it, I meant in a general way also. Yes, everyone IS different.

This makes me want to make a thread...
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Old March 22nd, 2006, 06:59 AM   #64 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infoterror
A note on forums:

Survey topics like "What are your favorite movies?" are always popular but never attract quality. Yes, this may sound fascist, but in my experience, it's true: users naturally make forums into places more like the other places they've been, and in doing so, crush what made those forums unique or worthy.

FYI
Noted. I tend to agree. I don't think it will ever get out of hand, but as that thread had some philosophical discussion, we let it slide. The frequent visitors, I believe is a nice concession to regular posters.

I don't think there is any worry about making this place like any other random off-topic board.
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Old March 23rd, 2006, 10:12 AM   #65 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infoterror
I think it depends on the person. We're not all the same. Some take to education, others fight it. What matters to my mind are two things - discipline and raw inclination. A 120-point serf will never have the same thoughts as 150-point aristocrat, and neither will produce anything unless they undertake a rigorous study.

From experience, FYI, YMMV, HIV, again.

Interesting post. However, when that 120-point serf has the inclination, determination, and fortitude to develop and run a multi-million dollar business.....and the 150-point aristocrat is still in their 'learning phase', waiting for their 'big-break' out in academia.....I'll gladly take the former.

Show me an individual with a 180 IQ, and I'll show you show you someone whom:

1.) Has failed to develop a close and permanent personal relationship with another.

2.) Has difficulty adapting and relating to their children.....if they have indeed sired any offspring.

3.) And whom may have little if any savings or investments for their future endeavors.

4.) Has limited adaptative life and problem-solving skills.

As someone alluded to in another thread here, overly-institutionalized intelligence is the antithesis of primitive common sense. It acts like a cancer.....it eats away at creativity, self expression, and more importantly.....your very survival instincts. There are far too many geniuses of academia walking our streets, living in squalor, frequenting our soup kitchens, and living off of the public teet of society. We need more doers, not teachers and talkers.

I'll take my lofty 138 IQ, and laugh all the way to the bank, thank you very much!

I'll explain to anyone here how to get an education in five easy? minutes.....probably more important than an entire year spent in any place of higher learning. And these are in my words.

"The next time you are home, get out of your comfort zone.....put your shoes on.....and go and talk to the neighbor next door. Correct.....the one that you have never introduced yourself to before. Take that leap, and strike up a conversation. Or the next time you are in a grocery, cinema, or restaurant queue.....say hello and keep the conversation going with that new individual. Probe, develop dialogue, initiate conversation, harvest and nurture the simple art of diplomacy and public speaking. The secret is.....99% of the humans on this planet cannot and refuse to do that very simple task. Why? Fear of the unknown? No. Fear of failure? No. Fear of having nothing clever to say? Wrong? The most plausible answer is fear of themselves.....and their poor self-image. Most people truly believe they are 'worthless' deep down inside.....inspite of all the glitter and glamour around them.....which they can drape themselves in and pretend to rationalize their existence. But when it comes to interacting with other members of the human race.....most run the other way and hide."

The morale of the story: Human success in any walk of life comes down to human interaction and interpersonal relationships. Nothing else matters. If you cannot communicate effectively with those that can be influenced, or the influencers, no amount of education or specialization will ever matter. Human and skillful relations. That is the only equalizer.....which few can and will successfully act on.

I'll take my six 'life textbooks'.....and 'menial public school education'.....and take my chances against anyone else who believes that education and intelligence can only be derived from years of classroom training and laboratory research. And I'll challenge those very principles to the core. Because in reality.....and in the end.....we are the ones whom employ those with the degrees and lofty credentials. Touché!

That.....is the true essence of PHILOSOPHY!

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Old March 23rd, 2006, 04:12 PM   #66 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Winnipeg Warrior
However, when that 120-point serf has the inclination, determination, and fortitude to develop and run a multi-million dollar business.....and the 150-point aristocrat is still in their 'learning phase', waiting for their 'big-break' out in academia.....I'll gladly take the former.
Depends on the long-term consequences of both. Most businesses are destructive and spiritless. Also, your post is an example of a bifurcation fallacy, e.g. it posits two extremist examples which do not conform to reality (most 120-point serfs are busy buying pickup trucks, and most aristocrats active in public service).
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Old March 23rd, 2006, 05:45 PM   #67 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Winnipeg Warrior
Interesting post. However, when that 120-point serf has the inclination, determination, and fortitude to develop and run a multi-million dollar business.....and the 150-point aristocrat is still in their 'learning phase', waiting for their 'big-break' out in academia.....I'll gladly take the former.

Show me an individual with a 180 IQ, and I'll show you show you someone whom:

1.) Has failed to develop a close and permanent personal relationship with another.

2.) Has difficulty adapting and relating to their children.....if they have indeed sired any offspring.

3.) And whom may have little if any savings or investments for their future endeavors.

4.) Has limited adaptative life and problem-solving skills.

As someone alluded to in another thread here, overly-institutionalized intelligence is the antithesis of primitive common sense. It acts like a cancer.....it eats away at creativity, self expression, and more importantly.....your very survival instincts. There are far too many geniuses of academia walking our streets, living in squalor, frequenting our soup kitchens, and living off of the public teet of society. We need more doers, not teachers and talkers.

I'll take my lofty 138 IQ, and laugh all the way to the bank, thank you very much!

I'll explain to anyone here how to get an education in five easy? minutes.....probably more important than an entire year spent in any place of higher learning. And these are in my words.

"The next time you are home, get out of your comfort zone.....put your shoes on.....and go and talk to the neighbor next door. Correct.....the one that you have never introduced yourself to before. Take that leap, and strike up a conversation. Or the next time you are in a grocery, cinema, or restaurant queue.....say hello and keep the conversation going with that new individual. Probe, develop dialogue, initiate conversation, harvest and nurture the simple art of diplomacy and public speaking. The secret is.....99% of the humans on this planet cannot and refuse to do that very simple task. Why? Fear of the unknown? No. Fear of failure? No. Fear of having nothing clever to say? Wrong? The most plausible answer is fear of themselves.....and their poor self-image. Most people truly believe they are 'worthless' deep down inside.....inspite of all the glitter and glamour around them.....which they can drape themselves in and pretend to rationalize their existence. But when it comes to interacting with other members of the human race.....most run the other way and hide."

The morale of the story: Human success in any walk of life comes down to human interaction and interpersonal relationships. Nothing else matters. If you cannot communicate effectively with those that can be influenced, or the influencers, no amount of education or specialization will ever matter. Human and skillful relations. That is the only equalizer.....which few can and will successfully act on.

I'll take my six 'life textbooks'.....and 'menial public school education'.....and take my chances against anyone else who believes that education and intelligence can only be derived from years of classroom training and laboratory research. And I'll challenge those very principles to the core. Because in reality.....and in the end.....we are the ones whom employ those with the degrees and lofty credentials. Touché!

That.....is the true essence of PHILOSOPHY!

I agree with your criticism about institutionalized intelligence and interpersonal success, but, I dont see how someone opening their own business or working their way up to executive material in some corporation is of any more value to the world than a academic teaching and researching, or even a bum with a grad degree. The intelligent bum, is a sign to the world, of the fate of the intelligent--of those who refuse to conform to this system.

Your thesis is predicated on the notion that money is the sole aim of life, and ones intelligence must be sacrificed at its altar. I for one would rather die a poor penniless bum, who protested against this form of society, than sacrifice my life to the notion of material wealth.

And those books make me laugh. Yes, I am reminded of Saul Bellow's excellent novel Seize the Day upon your listing of such books. The persons who read such books are generally middle class, naive, ambitious--well the average American.
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Old March 23rd, 2006, 06:08 PM   #68 (permalink)
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The persons who read such books are generally middle class, naive, ambitious--well the average American.
The very people our great republic is designed to help prosper.
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Old March 24th, 2006, 12:50 PM   #69 (permalink)
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The very people our great republic is designed to help prosper.
Not historically, it ain't.
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Old March 24th, 2006, 04:20 PM   #70 (permalink)
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Not historically, it ain't.
Care to expound further on that?
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Old March 26th, 2006, 05:52 AM   #71 (permalink)
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That.....is the true essence of PHILOSOPHY!
I need to throw out my highbrow literature and begin reading self-help books, which will get me "thinking big" and "growing rich." Must...become...corporate...drone...
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Old March 26th, 2006, 05:29 PM   #72 (permalink)
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I need to throw out my highbrow literature and begin reading self-help books, which will get me "thinking big" and "growing rich." Must...become...corporate...drone...
Senior year in high school they wasted tax payer money by bringing in these motivational speakers. One handed out his book on how to network.
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Old April 10th, 2006, 05:09 PM   #73 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Winnipeg Warrior
Unfortunately, I can name far too many good people that have strong academic credentials from prominent institutions.....that will never achieve any semblance of financial or personal success. Theoretical understanding does not equal practical experience. Simply stated, you may be able to identify and define all the elements and components of a light bulb. But when the time came, would you have the common sense to turn off the power and replace that very bulb? Of course, this is just a generalization. But many highly educated people would even have challenges understanding the very point I'm trying to make right now.

But if the shoe fits.....
this is a perfect explination of why i feel like i belong here
i'm the guy that knows how to CHANGE a light bulb as opposed to the guy that knows how to MAKE a lightbulb
i know how things work in the real world and i know how to interact with the relatively stupid real world people as opposed to the guy that's actually read philosophy books
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Old April 26th, 2006, 02:53 PM   #74 (permalink)
infoterror
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RookParliament
Care to expound further on that?
Yes.

The American republic was originally designed to be ruled by NW European males over age 30 who were landholders and already participating in local society.

The founders would've been horrified at the idea of the rabble taking over, something proven correct when the events of the French Revolution were borne out and the whole thing collapsed into a horror of murder, sodomy, failure and disorganization.
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Old April 26th, 2006, 05:31 PM   #75 (permalink)
LORD_RED_DRAGON
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LORD_RED_DRAGON
this is a perfect explination of why i feel like i belong here
i'm the guy that knows how to CHANGE a light bulb as opposed to the guy that knows how to MAKE a lightbulb
i know how things work in the real world and i know how to interact with the relatively stupid real world people as opposed to the guy that's actually read philosophy books
when you take a cab to the grocery store, can you hold a conversation with the cab driver??? or hold a conversation with the cashier???
sadly, for a great many of you the answer is obviously no
(with the obvious exception of those that type on the nevermore board)
when i go offline i successfully interact with the people that are too stupid to understand anything posted on this forum
and i feel pride in having retaining a skill that some of you never had to begin with
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