Is humanity on a path to suicide?

[death metal black metal]

It is no longer recommended to eat fish from the ocean, because they have toxic levels of heavy metals.

It is no longer recommended to stop your car in over 1/3 of the average American or European city, because crime is so out of control.

It is no longer recommended to send smart children to regular schools, because the schools are designed to make dumb children feel accepted.

It is no longer recommended to drink water from rivers, or to eat fruit from trees grown in the suburbs.

It is no longer recommended to live in cities, because the pollution is so strong.

Today, seven billion... in ten years, nine billion. The average IQ is 85-92. Each one of these people produces a bag of garbage a day, and needs food that leaves more heavy metals in the water, more pesticides and fertilizer in our waterways.

Our politicians approve those things that make many people happy because it's what they think they want, but those things never turn out well, and problems remain. These are not problems like war, poverty and inequality, which are universal and will never go away, but problems like corruption, bad leadership, and the results.

Most cities are ugly places lined with advertising. Whatever is popular sells. Whatever sells is good, by most people's definition. They consider themselves successes if they make money and own things, but never think of the condition of their souls or minds.

Where does this course end? Nothing opposes it. It is popular. But who is thinking of the future? And most of all, who is thinking of making great art, great architecture, great music, great thinking? None of these things exist, only an incessant stream of pretty good alternatives.

Is the future of humanity doom, to fade out with a whimper and not a bang?

[The Poona of Peshwa]

Who "does not recommend" these things, you? It's a fact that crime rates are lower in the western world than they have ever been. Where do you get this 1/3 figure from? The city I live in anyways, I can eat apples off the trees and breathe pure air. Granted, I won't go take a swig out of the river

The lack of "greatness" does disturb me too though. . . I honestly think that the problem with people nowadays is that our bodies and minds were evolved in ancient africa and aren't designed for the world we have created for ourselves. There wasn't pornography and mcdonalds and xbox in the ancestral environment, or even 100 years ago (ok there was some porn).

The average IQ by definition is 100 btw.

[Seditious]

sounds like progress to me... "the future of humanity" I think is a rather extreme leap from a 'a necessary revamp on civilization'

[hibernal_dream]

Originally Posted by death metal black metal

It is no longer recommended to eat fish from the ocean, because they have toxic levels of heavy metals.

It is no longer recommended to stop your car in over 1/3 of the average American or European city, because crime is so out of control.

It is no longer recommended to send smart children to regular schools, because the schools are designed to make dumb children feel accepted.

It is no longer recommended to drink water from rivers, or to eat fruit from trees grown in the suburbs.

It is no longer recommended to live in cities, because the pollution is so strong.

Today, seven billion... in ten years, nine billion. The average IQ is 85-92. Each one of these people produces a bag of garbage a day, and needs food that leaves more heavy metals in the water, more pesticides and fertilizer in our waterways.

Our politicians approve those things that make many people happy because it's what they think they want, but those things never turn out well, and problems remain. These are not problems like war, poverty and inequality, which are universal and will never go away, but problems like corruption, bad leadership, and the results.

Most cities are ugly places lined with advertising. Whatever is popular sells. Whatever sells is good, by most people's definition. They consider themselves successes if they make money and own things, but never think of the condition of their souls or minds.

Where does this course end? Nothing opposes it. It is popular. But who is thinking of the future? And most of all, who is thinking of making great art, great architecture, great music, great thinking? None of these things exist, only an incessant stream of pretty good alternatives.

Is the future of humanity doom, to fade out with a whimper and not a bang?

There's a question which should be asked before this - what is humanity's goal? Because this suicide you speak of might be the only path to achieving it, and if so our efforts to return the world to a more comfortable position would be pointless.

[Seditious]

Originally Posted by hibernal_dream

There's a question which should be asked before this - what is humanity's goal? Because this suicide you speak of might be the only path to achieving it, and if so our efforts to return the world to a more comfortable position would be pointless.

Keeping our iPods obviously.

[hibernal_dream]

Are you joking, or do you really think that's what we should be aiming for?

[Seditious]

Originally Posted by hibernal_dream

Are you joking, or do you really think that's what we should be aiming for?

my iPod broke last month, life is no longer worth living.

[SouthernTrendkill]

That's blatant apoclyptic wanking. Every generation thinks that the world is about to end. That's what people thought circa 0 BC when Jesus came along and everyone was all "omg!11 We are the last generation!" It's hubris to put so much stalk in the miniscule occurences of our age.

I certainly wish we were on a path to suicide, but unfortunately we're not. You're underrating the human ability to adapt. We'll survive for quite a long time after now, almost certainly.

[death metal black metal]

Originally Posted by SouthernTrendkill

That's blatant apoclyptic wanking. Every generation thinks that the world is about to end.

Logical fallacy, at some point one might be right. -5

[Seditious]

Originally Posted by death metal black metal

Logical fallacy, at some point one might be right. -5

which logical fallacy is that? and why is to warranted to assert that this generation is in fact the one which is right/doomed?

[En Vind Av Sorg]

If the current trends continue to progress at the rates we find today, humanities "suicide" certainly becomes an issue of when, not if. Not to mention the collateral damage leading up to our extinction, which would be, to put it mildly, catastrophic. Whether we fade away slowly or spectacularly annihilate ourselves is essentially irrelevant.

In the end though, what is the biggest problem? Apathy of course. I fear our race is dangerously close to the point of no return, if it has not already crumbled into the abyss.

[Seditious]

Apathy isn't the biggest problem until you've even shown that there is anything wrong. Apathy might well be the only good thing going, and some people want to ruin that to get people all upset about something that doesn't matter anyway... gg

[Blowtus]

'Suicide' is stupid emotive language. It implies a conscious choice of death, which is not what is being discussed.

That list of 'recommendations' is bullshit safety scare rubbish. People in the developed world still live longer than at any time in the past. Who cares if I can't go down to my local creek and drink the water, when I'm getting clean stuff piped straight to me?

[death metal black metal]

Originally Posted by Blowtus

That list of 'recommendations' is bullshit safety scare rubbish. People in the developed world still live longer than at any time in the past.

You're not addressing the question.

The question isn't our individual lives, but what path we have embarked upon and what the consequences are.

If we're in a spaceship, living comfortable lives, and we fly it into the sun, we're in a world of bad, aren't we?

[Blowtus]

We haven't 'embarked' on any path. We just do shit that we think we want. Some of it could be viewed as 'destructive' for our long term survival, some constructive. I'm hopeful that our rate of technological advance can save us from our fuckups, because I don't see any other practical options... talk of 'humanity's suicide' and the like is just romantic bullshit.

[OldScratch]

Originally Posted by Blowtus

We haven't 'embarked' on any path. We just do shit that we think we want. Some of it could be viewed as 'destructive' for our long term survival, some constructive. I'm hopeful that our rate of technological advance can save us from our fuckups, because I don't see any other practical options... talk of 'humanity's suicide' and the like is just romantic bullshit.

Is it? You seem very sure about technology being mankind's "savior," as this has come up a number of times before. But what if that isn't the case? Wouldn't it be prudent to acknowledge and discontinue our "fuckups" rather than simply hold-out hope that we can somehow technologically finagle our way out of peril?
Issues like overpopulation, wide-spread terrestrial pollution, and the like are surely quite real, and it doesn't appear there is anything approaching a global effort to stop it(currently trendy climate-change "green" talk notwithstanding).

I'm not quite as convinced as some that all hope is lost - but the destructive trends seem to outnumber the contructive, when considering many of the contructiive might not even be necessary were we not so recklessly, seflishly destrcutive in the first place. Thus, what appears contructive is ultimately more reactive that pro-active. So at best, we may be just standing-still...or sliding into the abyss. I'd prefer not to have to wait on the technological Messiah to deliver us from our "sinful" ways!

[Blowtus]

I'm not at all convinced tech is going to get there for us, like I said, just hopeful... I'm all for mitigating destructive tendencies as well, just doesn't seem we do as good a job at that. This doomsday melodrama just seems oh so very 'metal'

[kmik]

Look, life just sucks. It always looks like humanity is on its path to suicide. We have better nutrition and medicine now; you talk about schools, well, its a good achievement that most kids go to school - it's not always been like that; and I'm pretty sure that crime is not any worse now than it used to be. If you prefer to die at your 30s of plagues or something and have a shower once a week it's OK with me...

[kmik]

That rant about IQ - could you please provide a study that supports that? To the best of my knowledge, IQ worldwide is increasing. That's called the Flynn effect.

[OldScratch]

Originally Posted by Blowtus

This doomsday melodrama just seems oh so very 'metal'

Well, when in Rome...

[Norsemaiden]

Global dimming is one threat. Responsible for droughts that have already killed hundreds of thousands of people in sub-Saharan Africa.

Even the most pessimistic forecasts of global warming may now have to be drastically revised upwards. That means a temperature rise of 10c by 2100 could be on the cards, giving the UK a climate like that of North Africa and rendering many parts of the world uninhabitable.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/tvradio/prog..._summary.shtml

Today's news

New CO2 evidence means climate change predictions are 'too optimistic'

Yes, very "metal"!
http://timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2719627.ece

"Mutational load" is the total genetic burden in a population resulting from accumulated deleterious mutations.
http://www.blackwellpublishing.com/r...ional_load.asp

There are more than 1500 known mutational disorders or genetic diseases. By elimination of the unfit, natural selection reduces the harmful effects of mutations on a population. Some human behaviour is a pathological result of genetic mutation or neurological damage. Contamination/pollution is a major cause of bioaccumulated mutagens. Experiments have shown that genetically adapting to survive in a polluted environment can result in the population being so genetically altered that if they were put back into the non-polluted environment, they would die and the pollution itself causes mutations, altering germcells. This was found in an experiment involving fish. It is mentioned in the article I am about to quote from by a major Canadian geneticist, Michael Easton, entitled "Environmental Mutagens: A Crisis of our Time"
http://www.naturphoto.com/oped2d.html

Easton says that pollution caused by humans could quickly cause such massive deleterious mutational genetic load that we may go extinct.

Germcell mutations, even if harmful and selected against will likely remain in the population for many generations. Thus in an environment of a chemically induced increase in the background mutation rate, there will be an increasing legacy of useless or harmful genetic material that is created within each generation by an ever increasing build up of genetically toxic chemicals. These effects may be compounded each generation. Under polluted conditions, natural mutation events are slowly accumulated and form a reservoir of material (genetic load) for evolutionary change. At high levels, this mutational load becomes a drag on the population and can result in an enormous burden of useless mutated genes resulting in greater embryo and pre-reproductive mortality. At lower levels, the genetic flexibility of the population is diminished.

The end of many species, possibly including man, could come about not from the catastrophic effects of atom bombs, but from the genetically damaging effects of our toxic environment, short sighted industrial practices and the ineffectiveness and inadequacy of present government regualtions to reduce the rate of an ever increasing debt of genetic damage. Unlike the fiscal debt, the genetic damage debt can't be paid off.

More doom mongering to follow...

[Norsemaiden]

I mentioned global dimming as one factor in climate change. There is also the "run away greenhouse effect" which would be a process where our oceans boil away and all life on the planet obviously dies. This effect has already happened on Venus.

http://www.worldpress.org/americas/1975.cfm

When global temperatures rise by 3 degrees

At this point the rainforests begin to die, releasing vast new amounts of carbon dioxide. Algae fail in the ocean and stop generating cooling clouds and absorbing carbon. The Greenland glacier goes into meltdown, releasing enough water to flood many of the world's cities. Crop failures, human migrations,the emergence of 'brutal war lords' follow.

From James Lovelock's book "The Revenge of Gaia".

Time left to sort this out before irreversible processes begin is as little as ten years.(NASA confirms).

Global politics is heading for serious confrontations and strong likelihood of nuclear weapons being used.

Wars over water set to become commonplace.

Rate of scientific innovation slowing, from a peak 100 years ago. New Scientist article "Entering a dark age of Innovation".
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn7616

In his book "Half gone: oil, Gas, Hot Air and the Global Energy Crisis" published last year, Jeremy Legett quotes Munich Re, the world's largest reinsurance company, warning

according to current estimates, the possible extent of losses caused by extreme natural catatrophe in one of the world's metropolises or industrial centres would be so great as to cause the collapse of entire countries' economic systems and could even bring about the collapse of the world's financial markets.

The world is overdue for a massive cull through plagues. AIDs is ongoing and threatens to virtually wipe out Africans. And the bird flu is teetering on the brink of decimating populations. The effect of the bird flu could be that people can't or won't work and so hospitals will be devastatingly undermanned and food won't be reaching supermarkets, causing a crisis whereby people will rely on the army bringing food parcels. It only takes a matter of days to reach such a point.

There is increasing belief in religions and superstitions showing humanity is regressing - hardly a surprise when the least intelligent are having the most children, and when people from cultures with little regard for science are emmigrating to the communities that have traditionally led this field.

Increasing levels of illiteracy and innumeracy,

standards of literacy are today lower than they were in 1914. What appears extraordinary is that literacy seems to have been going down fairly steadily ever since the state took an active part in education

http://www.edwardgoldsmith.com/page55.html

Dr Geoff Hayward from Oxford University's Educational Studies Department discusses their report into the falling standards of numeracy and literacy amongst students entering university.

http://www.edstud.ox.ac.uk/about/current.html

Other signs include: increasing bureaucratic corruption; institutions like the National Health Service failing; families breaking up and this causing dysfunction; increasing mental illness. http://www.berkeley.edu/news/berkele...immigrant.html

Most people react to all this like an obese glutton who is told to cut down on donuts - denial and annoyance.

So is it just another cycle?

Well no. You see, we have depleted the Earth of the basic metals that we would need to start up over again. We officially will need "a new planet" by 2050
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6077798.stm

I rest my case

[Spikeshade]

Originally Posted by Norsemaiden

I mentioned global dimming as one factor in climate change. There is also the "run away greenhouse effect" which would be a process whereby our oceans boil away and all life on the planet obviously dies. This effect has already happened on Venus.

Listen to Ozzy's song Dreamer.

If we keep up this destruction of the earth we arent going to survive, because we are raping the earth.
And global warming/global dimming is going to be our downfall.

[SouthernTrendkill]

Personally speaking, I think you guys are all full of bullshit (except for Seditious and Blowtus and such), but I certainly hope you are right about the end of the world.

We shall reconvene this thread in 80 years and see how it's going.

[JoeVice]

"If I was God, you'd sell your soul to the Great Southern Trendkill."

shut the fuck yup