The Responsibility of Man

[Blowtus]

Is their more worth to an explanation that that it allows us a measure of accuracy in our predictions? For someone exhibiting enough signs that we deem them to 'love' someone else, it can reasonably be assumed from such that they will also exhibit a propensity to look after the other in times of illness. There need not be any objective accuracy of explanation in our toolset of understanding if the toolset demonstates it's worth to us in the predictions it allows.

[Seditious]

Originally Posted by Blowtus

Is their more worth to an explanation that that it allows us a measure of accuracy in our predictions? For someone exhibiting enough signs that we deem them to 'love' someone else, it can reasonably be assumed from such that they will also exhibit a propensity to look after the other in times of illness. There need not be any objective accuracy of explanation in our toolset of understanding if the toolset demonstates it's worth to us in the predictions it allows.

my point, though, was that you're just adding words.

call it 'love' when what you want is a person to be well
call it 'dedication' when what you want is your garden to be well
call it 'dependance' when what you want is your car to be well

I predict you'll water the garden and make sure the car meets roadworthy standards because of my insight into your dedication and dependence... all I'm saying is 'I think that if you're smart you'll do what one needs to do to get what they want, to get what you want', and giving new names to what you want. the explanatory power hasn't increased.

The same problem is raised in philosophy of science when considering instincts, when we say 'oh, he did that because of instinct'...great, we've named why he does it. why did I heal from cancer, god made a miracle happen, there we have it, the process that has occurred has been explained. ...no, it's been labelled, we've given a label to that which we hope to be able to explain but haven't yet done.

seems to be the same sort of obfuscation to me.

[razoredge]

Originally Posted by Seditious

time travel a century: women are subjugated to men internationally---"Things are as they have come to be for good reason" therefore women should always remain politically inferior and without the vote.

google 'argument from antiquity' while you're looking up the fallacies in your drivel.

and not much earlier than that we had examples of lawlessness, speaking of invaluable drivel. There are no fallacies in what I presented that is why you cant show them but once again resort to a personal insult and the cliche shield of "100 years ago women couldnt vote", which pertains to morals and accountability... in what way ?.

Me look them up ? pft... look up what ? google truth ?

[Seditious]

Originally Posted by razoredge

and not much earlier than that we had examples of lawlessness, speaking of invaluable drivel. There are no fallacies in what I presented that is why you cant show them but once again resort to a personal insult and the cliche shield of "100 years ago women couldnt vote", which pertains to morals and accountability... in what way ?.

Me look them up ? pft... look up what ? google truth ?

you're a lost cause.

...but nothing twenty years wont fix.

[Blowtus]

Originally Posted by Seditious

my point, though, was that you're just adding words.

call it 'love' when what you want is a person to be well
call it 'dedication' when what you want is your garden to be well
call it 'dependance' when what you want is your car to be well

I predict you'll water the garden and make sure the car meets roadworthy standards because of my insight into your dedication and dependence... all I'm saying is 'I think that if you're smart you'll do what one needs to do to get what they want, to get what you want', and giving new names to what you want. the explanatory power hasn't increased.

Ok, I agree - but I think there is a worth to the 'added words' in that they readily and easily group expected actions together, rather than necessitating a full inquiry into the depths of every scenario to determine such actions.

'Dedication' is pretty clearly not as accurate a reason for suggesting someone does something as 'they want to' but my argument is that it is more *useful* in it's connotations. To say someone waters their garden because they are dedicated to it provides more insight into future possibilities than to say someone waters it because they want to. I don't see that it's obfuscating anything.

[Seditious]

Originally Posted by Blowtus

Ok, I agree - but I think there is a worth to the 'added words' in that they readily and easily group expected actions together, rather than necessitating a full inquiry into the depths of every scenario to determine such actions.

'Dedication' is pretty clearly not as accurate a reason for suggesting someone does something as 'they want to' but my argument is that it is more *useful* in it's connotations. To say someone waters their garden because they are dedicated to it provides more insight into future possibilities than to say someone waters it because they want to. I don't see that it's obfuscating anything.

I guess it might rather be said that it's a non-contradiction.
me: they want to
you: he's in love
me: that's what I meant.
ya know?
I think I commented in the first place because words are often abused with notions of nobility and altruism, and when someone says 'love' I'm wont to say 'that's just a subgenre of what I'm talking about', which is to say that I don't use the word because I worry about it being misapprehended by those 'love is a selfless thing' type people.

[Blowtus]

Yep - I can understand the desire to, and relevance of, pinning it all back to 'people doing what they want'. Now that I'm thinking on it though, I kind of wonder, what do you gain by stopping there, and not going the whole hog with 'stuff happens'? Surely the most accurate of observations!

[razoredge]

Originally Posted by Seditious

you're a lost cause.

...but nothing twenty years wont fix.

and you are worthless, your last 3 posts anyhow have had NOTHING to do with the topic and you sit there stateing either total nonsense or the obvious as if some form of profoundness

" me: they want to
you: he's in love
me: that's what I meant.
ya know?"

so now "they want to" also means "hes in love" ? off to rewrite the dictionary are you ? I suppose as long as you feel words are "apprehended" you'll need to pass out your new dictionary

fixing a car, growing a garden and wishing for health pertain to moral responsibility and accountability... how ? Here all along I've been thinking they were just surface value of everyday life... things that dont require contemplation

the only year that will fix you will come at the end of the day on the last day

[Seditious]

Originally Posted by Blowtus

Yep - I can understand the desire to, and relevance of, pinning it all back to 'people doing what they want'. Now that I'm thinking on it though, I kind of wonder, what do you gain by stopping there, and not going the whole hog with 'stuff happens'? Surely the most accurate of observations!

it may be just a 'time and a place' thing.

sometimes it's useful to be specific like you were suggesting, sometimes general, sometimes just entirely dismissive---'pff, c'mon, that's just the universe---total non-issue'.

I mean, I guess the point is to identify what is relevant to the case for what is at issue between the parties, which for me usually is in this broad-ish realm... I'm usually willing to stipulate for sake of argument preeeetty much whatever the fuck someone wants to claim, and draw issue only when their claim extends so far as to claim to be altruism or some such thing which I take to be a significantly mischaracterizing of the behavior, perhaps only because I'd like to say 'it's like this other behavior too, why be against one?' to which they wish to keep it separate, opposing one and supporting the other.

it's a matter of determining the point of controversy, and being as specific as necessary for where the issue lies.

I know that was vague as a shit in the fog but given all the time we've been posting, and the common ground, I'm sure you get what I'm getting at.

[razoredge]

oh how profound... and yes so valuable... as dead minnows in a bait box