Taming palm mutes?

[abyssofdreams]

I know some of you use a compressor with like some db of gain reduction but doesn't that kill the dynamics too much?

I mean, is there another method?
Looking at the waveform, the chunks are like 7db louder than the rest, I can reduce it using more distortion but then again it's too compressed and muddy.

I mean is there a softer, harmless gain reduction method instead of just cutting them off?

[Let it burn...]

pull the eq down around 50-90 hz. Should do the trick

[stringy_]

In my experience big palm mutes tend to push a ton of energy right at 160Hz.

If you set the threshold on a multiband compressor properly in that range it should only act on the signal when big palm mutes come through, leaving the rest of the dynamics in tact.

Don't set the threshold so that it's constantly riding the signal.

The key here being the multiband compressor. Bypass the rest of the bands so that it only acts on the lows. Don't use a compressor on the full spectrum, otherwise that energy in the lower mids on palm mutes will cause gain reduction of the whole signal which would squash the dynamics.

If you haven't already, look up Andy's famous C4 settings.

However, high gain guitars are compressed to hell already just by their nature, so I'm not sure what dynamics there are in the first place, lol!

Hope I helped!

[sysera]

I always go with an EQ for the low end on the mutes, or the C4 if I want to get really fancy.

It depends on whatever works best for that particular situation really.

[Aaron Smith]

Originally Posted by Let it burn...

pull the eq down around 50-90 hz. Should do the trick

It's common to roll off everything beneath 90hz or so, but not to tame palm mutes, because the boomy palm mute issue doesn't really occur in the 50-90hz range. Stringy_ is right on with the 160hz number as far as my experience goes, as well as everything else he said. The C4 (or your choice brand of multiband compression) set properly, really is the best solution. There is no magical number as far as the amount of gain reduction goes- it really just depends on the source, but I've had projects where it was actually hitting the chugs with about 6dB of reduction, and it sounded just perfect. Just pay attention and use your ears, and it's actually quite easy to effectively set it!

Originally Posted by sysera

I always go with an EQ for the low end on the mutes

I wouldn't recommend using EQ. The reason that multiband compression works so well for this, is that you can set it to affect the problem frequency range, ONLY when that range needs it (palm mutes). With EQ, you may well be making those palm mutes less noticeable, but the rest of the time you're also digging -6dB into your guitars for no reason. By doing that, you would not actually be solving the problem, as there would still be more boominess on palm mutes than on the rest of the playing. You would just be kind of "hiding" that entire range, which doesn't make sense.

[abyssofdreams]

actually I find it quite hard to set it up right...
the example setting andy gave goes from around 65hz to 280hz, if I set it up this way it thins the tone a lot, has almost no body and the boomy stuff is still there, less but still present. even if I crank the threshold... anything I do essentially wrong?

[Aaron Smith]

Originally Posted by abyssofdreams

actually I find it quite hard to set it up right...
the example setting andy gave goes from around 65hz to 280hz, if I set it up this way it thins the tone a lot, has almost no body and the boomy stuff is still there, less but still present. even if I crank the threshold... anything I do essentially wrong?

I've never actually loaded up Andy's actual settings, but make note that 65hz and 280hz is centered around that 160hz range that Stringy_ mentioned earlier. That's exactly the range of octaves that you should need the compressing. If you're finding that Andy's preset is thinning your tone too much, it's not likely because of the range that it's compressing, but because it's compressing too much or at the wrong times. Play with the attack and release controls (hint: they should be set to react pretty quickly) until you can see that it's only really doing any compressing when a palm mute is chugged.

[Where She Wept]

Use a good guitar tone, you're probably overdoing it with the bass knob and getting excessive resonance.

[abyssofdreams]

Sorry for resurrecting this old thread from the dead but I'm still struggling with compression as far as to hit the right "area".

Here's a sample of what I did to a raw single guitar track:

RAW, no EQ whatsoever:
http://www.keinezeit.de/mp3s/tests/nocomp.mp3

AFTER C4 compression:
http://www.keinezeit.de/mp3s/tests/c4.mp3

And these were the C4 settings:


Is a threshold of -20 too much? Or maybe not enough? What does it sound to you?

[TheDude]

The C4 sounds good. If you need more bass, add an EQ after the C4 to get the muddy low end back, but without the x-tra chunk-mud.

[abyssofdreams]

Thanks, do you think it needs more bass?

[Zombietakeover]

i wouldnt worry to much about the bass in your guitar

get a nice fat bass tone running solid right under the guitar
and you wont be wondering about the bass in the gtr

[LSD-Studio]

work on your palmmuting technique in the first place

[abyssofdreams]

Originally Posted by LSD-Studio

work on your palmmuting technique in the first place

thanks for the tip but can you be more specific?
keep in mind that the palm mutes sound awkward in amp sims

[ahjteam]

You have two problematic frequencies there. 130 and 200. I tried this:

Electri-q (posihfopit version)
-11dB cut at 130hz, supernarrow peak (0,2)
+3bB boost at 170hz, normal peak (1,0)
-6dB cut at 200hz, narrow peak (0,5)


G-vst Multi (multiband compressor) with these settings


Here is an EQ-graph, before is red and after is the blue line
They are all free plugins, try it out yourself

[LSD-Studio]

Originally Posted by abyssofdreams

thanks for the tip but can you be more specific?
keep in mind that the palm mutes sound awkward in amp sims

of course that isn't a magical solution or anything, but it helps to really know the combination of your guitar and amp(sim).
try different amounts of pressure and distances to the bridge, you'll find that HOW you palmmute makes a huge difference in how uncontrolled it sounds later.
I'm usually pretty close to the bridge, little pressure (gives the cleanest tone) by slowly moving it over the bridge you get the nice "In Flames"-ish feel where the Chugs become really big in the end

listen to first bit of the medley on my bands myspace: http://www.myspace.com/hirnnektar

check out the part from 0:36 to 0:50 ...first two are palmmuted and the other two half-open...gives a nice effect...same thing from 1:25 to 2:04 (last one half-open).
I did not use a C4 or EQ-cuts.....(I even boosted some 63Hz in mastering).

[abyssofdreams]

Thanks Lasse! Brilliant tip. Will try it out asap

[abyssofdreams]

Originally Posted by ahjteam

You have two problematic frequencies there. 130 and 200. I tried this:

Electri-q (posihfopit version)
-11dB cut at 130hz, supernarrow peak (0,2)
+3bB boost at 170hz, normal peak (1,0)
-6dB cut at 200hz, narrow peak (0,5)


G-vst Multi (multiband compressor) with these settings


Here is an EQ-graph, before is red and after is the blue line
They are all free plugins, try it out yourself

whoa! That was detailed! Thanks for the insight and your effort
But what are the other two lines in the last screen?

[ahjteam]

peak/current

[Student]

Volume automation...if it pumps 7dB, write Vol. auto. 7dB down on the mutes. You still have the dynamics of the other spikes, but the mutes are down...I agree with these guys above and I have used a compressor just for palm-mutes.