Tube Screamer FAQ Version 1

[JBroll]

Originally Posted by bebang86

level all the way up

Found your problem.

First, make sure the TS9 isn't modded.

Second, set the gain so that there is no change in volume between 'pedal on' and 'pedal off' (on the *clean* channel!) so that you can judge the pedal on fair ground. TAKE CARE HERE. If you perceive more gain, there's a good chance you've turned your level too high.

Third, don't expect to hear much of a mid boost when the amp is on a dirty channel - you'll notice more focus and less flub, unless the pedal is fucked or your pickups already have an EQ curve that looks like a fucking barn viewed head-on. The mid boost should be significant on a clean channel, but after distortion (and the massive tone shaping that goes on in your fourteen fucktillion gain channels) it won't be as if your mid knob went from zero to ten in quite the same way.

If you could provide clips of some kind that would help, but let me know what that does.

Jeff

[DigiV]

What's the best mod for the TS9? (already have one)

What resistors need to be changed to get it to sound like the vintage 808s?

[JBroll]

Both questions were answered earlier.

Unless you know what you want already, don't ask what the 'best mod' is - find something you want changed and figure out what will do that.

For the 808 specs... unless you can read resistor color codes it wouldn't do much good for me to tell you. http://www.tonepad.com/photoessay.asp?photoEssayID=9 is a good writeup.

Jeff

[DigiV]

Originally Posted by JBroll

Both questions were answered earlier.

Unless you know what you want already, don't ask what the 'best mod' is - find something you want changed and figure out what will do that.

For the 808 specs... unless you can read resistor color codes it wouldn't do much good for me to tell you. http://www.tonepad.com/photoessay.asp?photoEssayID=9 is a good writeup.

Jeff

Is it really worth it at all? Majority of players definitely prefer the OD 808 over the TS9 for clean boosting.. or so it seems.

[JBroll]

(Pardon the delay, I didn't get an email notification for that post.)

Lots of guitarists are wankers. Some things aren't explained by technical superiority - the fact that all sorts of other guitarists use that model is a big deal. I might seem a bit too cynical and harsh with this, but the fact that these same guitarists will (after saying that their ears are so great that they can identify one over the other with near-perfect accuracy) describe a TS as a 'clean boost' - when the TS completely fails to be clean in EQ or dynamic response in a very clear way - makes it incredibly hard for me to not think 'full of shit' here.

Many guitarists go with the most expensive pedal they can afford (as evidenced by $500 clones of the original TS pedals, with components dating back to the original manufacture) or whatever they see someone else using, since actually diving into details and schematics seems scary.

The simple fact of the matter is that you have an incredibly high chance of running into bigger variations due to component tolerances than schematic changes - and some guitarists' propensity towards taking a single short experience as divine truth doesn't help the related misunderstandings. It should not be surprising to compare two TS9s and two TS808s and perceive that the two TS9s sound more different than one of the TS9s and one of the TS808s - when the resistor labeled as '100kOhm' has as its actual reading some practically-random number between 80 and 120 kOhms, different pedals of the exact same make are all but guaranteed to change like a middle school choir's repertoire.

Jeff

[Metaltastic]

+1 to all Jeff's cynicism and mistrust of stupid easily-influenced guitarists who gobble up placebo like it's booze!

[JBroll]

I'm sure it gets tiring to a lot of people, which I don't particularly mean to do, but I mean it when I say that I'm only cynical and negative because bringing about change requires knowing what to change. I wouldn't be so damned negative all the time if I didn't want everything to be better, and hopefully posts like that one make up for harshing everyone's morning mellow all the bloody time...

Jeff

[Metaltastic]

For those curious to hear the effect a TS has when used properly (meaning, NOT AS A CLEAN BOOST, notice the amount of gain doesn't change between clips )...

The power of a Tube Screamer on a 2 ch. Dual Rec (And, new interface = better tonez!)

[DigiV]

Originally Posted by JBroll

(Pardon the delay, I didn't get an email notification for that post.)

Lots of guitarists are wankers. Some things aren't explained by technical superiority - the fact that all sorts of other guitarists use that model is a big deal. I might seem a bit too cynical and harsh with this, but the fact that these same guitarists will (after saying that their ears are so great that they can identify one over the other with near-perfect accuracy) describe a TS as a 'clean boost' - when the TS completely fails to be clean in EQ or dynamic response in a very clear way - makes it incredibly hard for me to not think 'full of shit' here.

Many guitarists go with the most expensive pedal they can afford (as evidenced by $500 clones of the original TS pedals, with components dating back to the original manufacture) or whatever they see someone else using, since actually diving into details and schematics seems scary.

The simple fact of the matter is that you have an incredibly high chance of running into bigger variations due to component tolerances than schematic changes - and some guitarists' propensity towards taking a single short experience as divine truth doesn't help the related misunderstandings. It should not be surprising to compare two TS9s and two TS808s and perceive that the two TS9s sound more different than one of the TS9s and one of the TS808s - when the resistor labeled as '100kOhm' has as its actual reading some practically-random number between 80 and 120 kOhms, different pedals of the exact same make are all but guaranteed to change like a middle school choir's repertoire.

Jeff

Hmm interesting post. So, hold on let me try and understand something here:

So, the TS9 isn't a true "clean boost" but we all know that, right? when certain (which are many) guitarists prefer to use the Maxon OD808 as a clean boost rather than the Reissue TS9 the differences they are hearing can be attributed to their anal tendencies? Or like someone else said falling for placebo?

Maybe what they hear isn't the clean boost but the certain characteristics that make up the sound when ATTEMPTING to clean boost a tubescreamer? Am I making sense here? haha.

There's A LOT of people that swear by the Maxon. I must attempt it for myself I guess to truly see if it's all hoopla and then decide if I want to mod my TS9

[JBroll]

The TS is neither clean (since it clips and filters significantly) nor much of a boost (it really doesn't add a whole lot of gain to the picture), so when guitarists say that you have every reason to hold them very suspiciously.

Jeff

[Ancient_Acolyte]

I dunno if this has been posted here before (as it has been a while since a read the whole thread), but...

You Tube

Moar mojo!

...however, if someone wants me to make them a TS clone for $500...

[TomAwesome]

Yeah, it was posted on the last page. Still an interesting video, though.

[JBroll]

I also responded to it last page - there's nothing surprising about the lack of differences between THE SAME CHIP (differing only in manufacturer), their tests left out a massive factor in our selection (noise in high-gain situations), and their testing method is about as scientific as a Pepsi Challenge taken by allergic smokers.

Jeff

[Metaltastic]

Jeff, I've been debating over on the Boogie board about boosts and Tube Screamers, and am in need of your input. The story thus far:

Originally Posted by Me, in response to someone asking about a Duncan pickup booster

It would defeat the purpose since it's just a clean gain boost, and most people use "boost" pedals more for their low filtering effect (mainly the Tube Screamer) - it doesn't matter if you get more gain from a pedal or by turning up the gain knob on the amp, the effect is the same, and it's NOT what tightens up the lows, but rather the aforementioned filtering

Originally Posted by jdurso

Thats not true... while you can find filtering on traditional tube screamer designs, a straight up clean boost can work wonders on tightening your amp. That additional kick you get from the boost makes the preamp tubes compress more... with more compression, you get a tightening effect as well as additional harmonics depending on the design. The only benefit the filtering will give you is a more specific tone, where as a straight up clean boost retains the tone of the orginal signal.

Originally Posted by Me

Well you're talking tightening in terms of compression, so how is that different than just turning the gain knob up? When I say tightening, I mean in the lows, and that's where the filtering/thinning of the TS (and its associated mid-hump) help so much, cuz maintaining the original signal is a bad thing IMO when it's mud/flub-city! (as it is with any Rectifier tweaked for high gain IMO, as well as most other amps)

Originally Posted by jdurso

Turning up your gain knob and slamming the preamp with a hotter signal is two totally different monsters. The hotter signal provided by the boost from either a clean boost or OD setup as a clean boost will cause your preamp to compress more into its natural clipping point... at that point the signal gets very smooth and tight. The most importnat point is your not adjust any eq in your tone... simply using the natural tightening effect of a preamp compressed to the point of clipping.

Now with a TS which has a natural mid-hump and some cut in the lows, your adjusting the eq curve while also causing compression... so its the same as a clean boost but with the eq curve altered. But dont think for one second its just the filtering causing the tightness... its the compression that tightens your preamp, and the mid-hump will help things pop a little more and in turn will tighten even more.

And if you think maintaining the original signal just hotter (as you would with a clean boost) with a Recto is mud city then you need to work on dialing your amp in appropriately with the boost.

(like that little bait in the end?) So what sayest thou? YOU'RE MY LIFELINE DAMMIT!!

[JBroll]

He's talking about yanking the gain up and 'retaining the tone of the original signal'... I'm not sure how he thinks gain knobs work, or why he doesn't seem to think that proper bass control before clipping is the most essential part of a pleasant distortion next to having an *input signal*, but I'd stay clear of that bait.

Jeff

[Metaltastic]

Is there any truth about it being different to "slam the input with a hotter signal" and about the preamp's "natural clipping point" and such, rather than increasing the gain with the amp's knob?

[JBroll]

Looking at what claims to be a Dual Rec schematic (note: I'm not fully convinced of the authenticity, so this post concerns ONLY what I can tell from *that schematic* and is not to be taken as divine revelation, relied upon in mission-critical systems, bet on, or otherwise taken to be anything more than a few notes on what the schematic says)... there is precisely one tube that comes before the gain control (V1, and from the looks of it only half of it is used), so if pissing off that one tube (before any kind of equalization - specifically, bass taming) is that big a deal, you could use a skullfuckingly loud input signal to overdrive it. (Note: a signal at this level would overdrive any amp's input stage.) Keep in mind, though, that slamming one tube really hard isn't exactly the classiest way to get distortion - the reason you have eighteen thousand tubes in those buggers is that smoothing out the distortion by having several gain stages doing something will lead to generally more usable sounds than getting the same amount of mess from one gain stage. Now, you are talking about a truly cuntripping input signal at this point... strictly speaking there will be a difference, but with what you do I'm not sure you'll want it. (End disclaimer, again... don't bet a kidney on this shit - this is an amateur reading a schematic whose authenticity he can't verify after drinking more than his mother would like. I wouldn't even bring this part of the discussion over there, because there's no telling what the fuck would happen if they had in their presence a guy who completely despised tubes and would rather trust the scientifically-justifiable than the passed-down-between-generations-of-blues-rock-wankers-who-thought-they-were-smarter-than-they-really-were...)

To step back and go into more detail on the original posts... the first you quoted is essentially stating that more gain means tighter tone. (I'll let your experience determine your take on that.)

The second quote is accurate (*twitch*) in that there will be a difference between a hot input signal and a higher gain knob setting, as far as one goddamned tube's input signal is concerned, but to blather on about 'natural clipping point' and pretend that using EQ before the amp is a grave offense is simply hilarious. There is nothing natural about clipping - the whole *point* is to feed an electronic gizmo more signal than it ever signed up to take.

Throughout, he is saying 'compression' (which would make his statements much more valid, if it were even half the bloody story) and not 'clipping' (which is what's actually going on any time a tube makes a decent sound - even the 'tube clean' sparkle is mild clipping that doesn't sound scratchy), which makes me suspicious. There's also no indication that he's really clear on what you want on the TS, but since that omission may be due to limited samples of his posts I'm holding back on that.

I'd be less concerned about missing out on godly tone due to the absence of a massive clean boost and more concerned about easily-foreseen attempts to lure you into feng shui and transcendental meditation to reach your full 'Spirit Phoenix Potential' or some similarly whacked-the-fuck-right-out shit. There's enough technobabble to seem coherent, but if this were even a tenth of the story life would be much simpler.

Jeff

[Metaltastic]

Hahahahahaha, spot on as always Jeff, and much appreciated - and don't worry, I had absolutely zero inclination to deviate from the TS path, I was just curious as to whether factually what he was saying held up!

[JBroll]

Right... well, pending further investigation...

(Read: until someone donates a bloody Dual Rec to the JBroll Foundation For Utter Rubbish, convinces me that tubes aren't a bunch of pratty nonsense to make people pay far more than they should for being loud, and gives me enough time alone with the thing to make some people wonder if the amount of time I've spent confusing the shiny little bastard is long enough to qualify as grounds for common-law fucking marriage...)

I'm going to have to stick to the TS recommendation.

As always, it's important to be able to tell the difference between when I'm talking out of my ass and when I'm talking out of my ass *scientifically*, but I think here my wild conjectures and gin-fueled bitterness will suffice until someone with more patience with electronics comes to settle the deal conclusively. In any case, I wouldn't buy one of those SD booster gizmos, as making a comparably clean boost is far easier than the two- or three-hour work you and I have to do to pay for something at that price.

Jeff

[tarnationsauce2]

Originally Posted by JBroll

Usage

Put it in front of the amp, with low gain, tone wherever you think it sounds open but not harsh, and about unity gain. We're not looking to have it boosting things – that's what the gain knob is for. We're looking to have the pedal tighten the sound, compress and juice the mids somewhat, and clean up the high end. That's it.

How is everyone dealing with clean tone and the TS?

A friend of mine has a Dual Recto and I suggested the TS to tighten the low end and clean the fizzyness ita bit.

Only problem is with his clean tone. He does have delay and chorus that he only uses with clean tone.
He took the TS out because he didn't like hitting 2 buttons (TS and Channel) at the same time.

Do most people just leave the TS on all the time (with clean tone)? The description on "Usage" seems that the pedal would be passing pretty much clean tone.

[JBroll]

I turn mine off for clean sounds.

I don't see how the description even comes close to saying that the pedal would pass a clean tone.

If your friend doesn't like hitting too many buttons, how exactly does he activate the clean effects?

Jeff

[Metaltastic]

Originally Posted by JBroll

I turn mine off for clean sounds.

I don't see how the description even comes close to saying that the pedal would pass a clean tone.

If your friend doesn't like hitting too many buttons, how exactly does he activate the clean effects?

Jeff

Well you can toggle the loop on/off on Rectifiers (or set it to only be on for one channel), so he probably has them always-on in the loop. I admit the two-pedal-stomp for cleans would be a bit annoying, but god it is fucking worth it, and nowhere near as annoying as the flubtacular flub of omitting the TS before one of those amps!

[Maamar Huq]

Originally Posted by JBroll

I'm sure it gets tiring to a lot of people, which I don't particularly mean to do, but I mean it when I say that I'm only cynical and negative because bringing about change requires knowing what to change. I wouldn't be so damned negative all the time if I didn't want everything to be better, and hopefully posts like that one make up for harshing everyone's morning mellow all the bloody time...

Jeff

Nah man, I think you're the greatest poster this forum ever had.

[Pot]

ThK U Jbroll...i've saved some $$$ and bought a ts7

[JBroll]

Glad to hear it.

A warning about the switches... I've noticed that mine doesn't work as easily when the battery is low. With electronic switching this is absolutely no surprise, but make sure you try a battery swap if you get some failure to activate - it won't be long before the sound shits out anyway, so keep spares.

Jeff