Anyone feel guilty about flying to Atlanta?

[Michael TEOF]

Originally Posted by Meedleyx10

where is it that you're getting your info?

(I ask because I'd like to check it out for myself, not because I disagree)

This is a topic I've been studying for 15 years. I doubt you'd be interested in buying books or going to the library, so I'll just point to some great electronic media you can read. On my myspace, there are a few slide presentations you can watch and listen to.

First watch Al Gore's An Inconvenient Truth (if you haven't already)... and then watch this movie on Google:

The Great Global Warming Swindle

Google Video

If you watch both documentaries, let me know what you think. The documentary I've posted is the best made, most accurate one I've seen. You'll enjoy it! Trust me

Peace,
Michael

[Meedleyx10]

thanks man. You're right, I'm not all that interested in researching it on the level you clearly have, but I'll definitely take a look at that video you posted.

[Pellaz]

Also, read Michael Crichton's State Of Fear. Yep, it's a novel, but there are a lot of fascinating temperature graphs embedded therein. Interestingly, the average temperature in smaller cities has actually decreased, not increased....implying that the rise in temps at larger places is due more to concrete and steel and leaky buildings than any sort of climate change.

Crichton's 'afterword' is an amazing read in itself.



EDIT: I'm watching the documentary you posted above.... The destruction of Al Gore's primary evidence (CO2 and temp), at around 20 minutes in, is positively damning.

Further edit: seeing the co-founder of Greenpeace itself (!) refer to the global warming movement as "basically, anti-human" is perhaps even more damning.

Thanks for posting that! Despite intending to just watch a little of it, I sat and watched it all the way through.

[Meedleyx10]

fuck...you wouldn't believe the reaction I got when I tried to talk to my "green" friend about this. The description in that video of people being treated like "holocaust non-believers" for not jumping on the bandwagon is pretty fuckin' accurate

[Michael TEOF]

Originally Posted by Meedleyx10

fuck...you wouldn't believe the reaction I got when I tried to talk to my "green" friend about this. The description in that video of people being treated like "holocaust non-believers" for not jumping on the bandwagon is pretty fuckin' accurate

Don't be discouraged, Meedley. Don't state your opinion to your friends; just ask questions. Inevitably you'll get a response along the lines of "the scientists are all in agreement and I trust them more than you."

Climate science isn't differential equations or advanced physics. Anybody with a basic high school education in chemisitry can understand the "science" of it.

I was first given global warming propaganda in grammar school in the early '90s. They said by the end of the '90s, we'd all be in trouble. I was scared to death. The polar ice caps were supposed to have melted away 10 years ago. They didn't in 1997. They haven't in 2007. And they won't in 2107. Actually, yes, the polar ice caps do melt... in the summer. We just forget that they refreeze in the winter. From winter to summer, the arctic ice caps expands while the antarctic ice cap shrinks (3x in size). Yet, every time the ice caps melt, we're told it's "global warming." Which is true... it's just that the warming is seasonal based; it's not from CO2 absorbing UV radiation and trapping extra heat in the troposphere. Also, remember that H20 is one of the only fluids to have more volume in a frozen state than liquid. Melted polar ice caps would result in receeding sea levels; not rising. Don't believe me? Put an ice cube in a glass of water and measure the fluid level before and after it melts.

If you guys want something truly entertaining, watch this debate on the topic:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YJRYRhX5e4

[Meedleyx10]

thanks for that one too...

I'm 100% with you on the idea that global warming isn't a mad-made probelm, so in your opinion (andyou've already stated your views on most of this on some level, but just to get them concisely stated in one spot...)...

do you think it's something that people can even have any effect on in terms of changing it? (my thought so far is 'no', based on the same logic that has convinced me that we haven't caused it)?

do you think it's something that is a legitimate thread to life? and if so, to what degree and what kind of time scale are we looking at? (as in, if it is indeed a threat to the life on earth, should I quit school and start partying 24/7 or should I plant a time capsule for my great-great-great-great-great grandchildren with a note that says "haha bitches...in your face"?)



sorry to seem so inquisitive....but I can't help that 'm a curious young person with a desire to be informed on current topics

[Michael TEOF]

If the average global temperature goes up a few degrees, life on earth will benefit. There are two periods in human history substantially warmer than it is now. One was the medieval warm period:



There was a controversy where UN scientists deleted data sets for the medieval warm period to produce consistant historical temps (where the famous hockey stick graph comes from, now defunct). The lower data set is the now accepted historical climate chart.

History proves this temperature variation. The Vikings used to colonize and farm Greenland; an area now covered in permafrost If we revert to the medieval warm period, crop yields will increase (food will cost less), sea levels will not rise (water has less volume as liquid than ice), and greenland will become usable land again.

Warmer yet, was a period called the Holocene maximum during the Egyptian, Greek, and Ottoman empires. It was almost twice as warm as the medieval warm period.

So, I hope we continue to have global warming. Warming has many benefits. Cooling has none. Just remember, the sea levels are not going to rise. More warmth does not produce more droubt (depsite what environmental journalists are screaming about regarding the situation in Georgia now).

I'm sure others are sick of reading about this by now. If you have any other questions or want some more links to check out or books to read, send me a private message.

Always stay independent and continue to think for yourself!

The Michael

[Meedleyx10]

will do. Thanks again

[rms]

Originally Posted by Rick Pierpont

We are making the 732 mile trip in a Prius (3 people). When I drive we typically get 48-50 MPG! Much better than my 17 MPG SUV that I brought down last year (4 people)! Either way, at least we have carpooled the past two years.

As far as the whole global warming thing, it really doesn't matter to me if the scientific commnuity has agreed on its reality or not. What I do know, is that spitting chemicals into the air is NOT natural and therefore not a good thing. While it may not be the lion's share of emissions, it is still something that we can control. I try to do my part at protecting our natural resources.

Global Warming is a natural phenonemon(I cant spell it )

[Michael TEOF]

Originally Posted by rms

Global Warming is a natural phenonemon(I cant spell it )

CO2 emissions are completely harmless (I would like to remind everyone that CO2 is a natural gas and essential for life on planet earth). In fact, fuel cells cars would emit H20 (water vapor) from their tail pipes. Fuel cell vehicles would be FAR more dangerous for the environment than gas powered ones. Check out how many microns H20 absorbs:



Actually, even fuel cell automobiles would not produce enough water vapor to make an impact on tropospheric temperature. We would probably have more rain though

The Michael