The downside of the Green Movement

Kenneth R. · May 12th, 2008, 08:18 PM

So, I love environmentally conscious people. I really do. But some of their chicken little esque panicking has resulted in some bad lawmaking.

Who likes incandescent bulbs? Cause chances are, your government is going to ban the sale of them in the next 4 years.
In the name of efficiency of electricity.
They think that by switching to Compact Flourescent bulbs (CFL) they can help the environment and reduce your electrical consumption.
Some of my compatriots in environmental defense are cheering loudly.

But why would we forsake Edison's masterpiece for the CFL when the incandescent bulb, unlike CFLs, do not contain Mercury gas, do not emit UV rays, and do not flicker at or at double mains frequency (imagine 60,120 times per second). There are so many environmental and health concerns with flourescent lighting. And let's not forget that their color index is, on the scale of 0 to 100, never 100. Sunlight rates at 100 and so do most incandescent bulbs. LEDs are horrid at 70. And let's not even discuss that CFLs are much costlier than incandescent bulbs.

Clean Energy Act of 2007. Thank you for making the world a safer, more ecofriendly place. Oh wait, you didn't. You made it worse, and in the future, I'll have to buy my bulbs black market just to have that nice homely lighting.

ADDED: Oh, and CFLs hum too. And they interfere with radio frequency devices like TV remotes and stereos. Imagine how fucked American recording studios are going to be when this goes into effect.

Pellaz · May 12th, 2008, 11:37 PM

Lousy eco-legislation based on appealing to everyone's State of Fear? Nahhh, never happens.

(With a nod and an apology to Michael Crichton

)

Kenneth R. · May 13th, 2008, 08:42 AM

too true. On the other side of the coin, the rest of the Clean Energy Act is great progress. This bit about light bulbs slipped through and it pisses me off.

Yippee38 · May 13th, 2008, 09:32 AM

All those riders on bills piss me off.

spag · May 13th, 2008, 05:51 PM

With luck, LED lighting will become more commonplace and people will stop buying CFLs.

The city recycling places won't take them because of the Mercury, so people are pretty much stuck with throwing them out. There is no education for people not to do so anyway, and they are way to stupid to read the packaging. When the magic light making thingy goes bad, it'll just go in the trash like their bulbs always did. I bet half the population doesn't even know the difference.

Kenneth R. · May 13th, 2008, 07:43 PM

I'll switch to LEDs when they can produce accurate, high rating color indecies. I want my light to be full spectrum (as much as possible) and low color temperature.

Diamond45 · May 13th, 2008, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenneth R.

So, I love environmentally conscious people. I really do. But some of their chicken little esque panicking has resulted in some bad lawmaking.

I like saving the environment too. I'm also an electrical engineer. CFLs are the second worst thing for indoor lighting. LEDs would be the absolute worst! (and yes, they flicker too!) Best light - incandescent bulbs!

Quote:

ADDED: Oh, and CFLs hum too. And they interfere with radio frequency devices like TV remotes and stereos. Imagine how fucked American recording studios are going to be when this goes into effect.

Computers are bad enough with their switched power supplies. Thank God that the BPL (broadband over power lines) pretty much is going to go away. The interference with that would be so great that everything would be effed up!

Also - people don't realize how much added hazardous waste would be generated with CFLs. The ballasts are not recycleable (they should be!) and they'll clog up landfills worse than regular flourescent tubes or incandescent bulbs.

Ugh.... fixing one problem, causing many more problems.

Kenneth R. · May 13th, 2008, 08:28 PM

I'm an EE too.

Why aren't we being consulted about these laws?!

Pellaz · May 14th, 2008, 12:41 AM

Plunging headlong into bad green-friendly legislation (public sector) or lousy eco-business decisions (private sector) is becoming more and more common. The ideas sound great on paper, and then the starry-eyed legislators or CEOs kinda forget to ask the engineers about the nuts-and-bolts, heavy lifting parts.

Case in point: the rush to embrace ethanol.

Kenneth R. · May 14th, 2008, 12:59 AM

And other vegetable oil based fuel options. Wahoo, lower gas costs! Wahoo, higher food prices.

Diamond45 · May 14th, 2008, 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenneth R.

May 12th, 2008, 08:18 PM	#1 (permalink)
Kenneth R. Eye-Stealing Tesuji Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Hallways of Always Posts: 14,844	The downside of the Green Movement So, I love environmentally conscious people. I really do. But some of their chicken little esque panicking has resulted in some bad lawmaking. Who likes incandescent bulbs? Cause chances are, your government is going to ban the sale of them in the next 4 years. In the name of efficiency of electricity. They think that by switching to Compact Flourescent bulbs (CFL) they can help the environment and reduce your electrical consumption. Some of my compatriots in environmental defense are cheering loudly. But why would we forsake Edison's masterpiece for the CFL when the incandescent bulb, unlike CFLs, do not contain Mercury gas, do not emit UV rays, and do not flicker at or at double mains frequency (imagine 60,120 times per second). There are so many environmental and health concerns with flourescent lighting. And let's not forget that their color index is, on the scale of 0 to 100, never 100. Sunlight rates at 100 and so do most incandescent bulbs. LEDs are horrid at 70. And let's not even discuss that CFLs are much costlier than incandescent bulbs. Clean Energy Act of 2007. Thank you for making the world a safer, more ecofriendly place. Oh wait, you didn't. You made it worse, and in the future, I'll have to buy my bulbs black market just to have that nice homely lighting. ADDED: Oh, and CFLs hum too. And they interfere with radio frequency devices like TV remotes and stereos. Imagine how fucked American recording studios are going to be when this goes into effect. __________________ *Order Zero Hour: Dark Deceiver*

May 12th, 2008, 11:37 PM	#2 (permalink)
Pellaz Tigron of Immanion Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 5,154	Lousy eco-legislation based on appealing to everyone's State of Fear? Nahhh, never happens. (With a nod and an apology to Michael Crichton ) __________________ http://www.paulcashman.com pellaz1@comcast.net Proud sponsor of Amorphis, Sonata Arctica, Mercenary, Therion, PoS, Nightwish and Devin Townsend Band for ProgPowers past and current! On SeismicRadio as DJ-Pellaz: http://www.seismicradio.com Also on WREKage, 11:59pm Fri - 5am Sat: http://www.wrekage.org 91.1 FM Atlanta -- Atlanta radio's true home of metal for more than 20 years, also streamed live and archived for a week!

May 13th, 2008, 08:42 AM	#3 (permalink)
Kenneth R. Eye-Stealing Tesuji Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Hallways of Always Posts: 14,844	too true. On the other side of the coin, the rest of the Clean Energy Act is great progress. This bit about light bulbs slipped through and it pisses me off. __________________ *Order Zero Hour: Dark Deceiver*

May 13th, 2008, 09:32 AM	#4 (permalink)
Yippee38 Living the dream! Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Somewhere at 37,000' Posts: 1,420	All those riders on bills piss me off. __________________ "Step out of line And I'll teach you how to fly Then away we'll go" http://www.myspace.com/yippee38

May 13th, 2008, 07:43 PM	#6 (permalink)
Kenneth R. Eye-Stealing Tesuji Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Hallways of Always Posts: 14,844	I'll switch to LEDs when they can produce accurate, high rating color indecies. I want my light to be full spectrum (as much as possible) and low color temperature. __________________ *Order Zero Hour: Dark Deceiver*

May 13th, 2008, 05:51 PM	#5 (permalink)
spag Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: San Diego Posts: 340	With luck, LED lighting will become more commonplace and people will stop buying CFLs. The city recycling places won't take them because of the Mercury, so people are pretty much stuck with throwing them out. There is no education for people not to do so anyway, and they are way to stupid to read the packaging. When the magic light making thingy goes bad, it'll just go in the trash like their bulbs always did. I bet half the population doesn't even know the difference.

May 13th, 2008, 08:28 PM	#8 (permalink)
Kenneth R. Eye-Stealing Tesuji Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Hallways of Always Posts: 14,844	I'm an EE too. Why aren't we being consulted about these laws?! __________________ *Order Zero Hour: Dark Deceiver*

May 14th, 2008, 12:41 AM	#9 (permalink)
Pellaz Tigron of Immanion Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 5,154	Plunging headlong into bad green-friendly legislation (public sector) or lousy eco-business decisions (private sector) is becoming more and more common. The ideas sound great on paper, and then the starry-eyed legislators or CEOs kinda forget to ask the engineers about the nuts-and-bolts, heavy lifting parts. Case in point: the rush to embrace ethanol. __________________ http://www.paulcashman.com pellaz1@comcast.net Proud sponsor of Amorphis, Sonata Arctica, Mercenary, Therion, PoS, Nightwish and Devin Townsend Band for ProgPowers past and current! On SeismicRadio as DJ-Pellaz: http://www.seismicradio.com Also on WREKage, 11:59pm Fri - 5am Sat: http://www.wrekage.org 91.1 FM Atlanta -- Atlanta radio's true home of metal for more than 20 years, also streamed live and archived for a week!

May 14th, 2008, 12:59 AM	#10 (permalink)
Kenneth R. Eye-Stealing Tesuji Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Hallways of Always Posts: 14,844	And other vegetable oil based fuel options. Wahoo, lower gas costs! Wahoo, higher food prices. __________________ *Order Zero Hour: Dark Deceiver*