The Economy

[Magius]

Originally Posted by Diamond45

I'm considering voting Libertarian this time around

Waste of time. Neither alternative party has a viable candidate.

The "Libertarian" candidate isn't a Libertarian. Bob Barr is an old school Republican conservative. The LP stuck him on the ticket for some name recognition. If you're inclined to vote for a conservative vote for McCain.

The Green Party's nominee is Cynthia McKinney. Total fruitcake. If you're inclinded to vote left, you might as well help Obama.

[Pellaz]

Originally Posted by nailz

BTW: Dow dropped another 7% today. So we've effectively lost 20% of the stock market in 10 days. Officially defined a "Stock Market Crash". I had $2800 in a 401k before all this, now I have $1500. I feel bad for anyone who wanted to retire this year.

It'll keep falling until someone (well, a few someones) decide "Holy shit! It's time to go bargain-hunting!"

As Clark Howard (syndicated radio host on money issues, apolitical but as frugal as they come) said, "This is the single best opportunity of a lifetime for younger people with some money stored away to get into the market." As soon as it starts rising, BUY LIKE MAD!

As for my retirement funds, I'll take a partial hit, but I have a sizeable percentage of it in the loss-proof G Fund, so I'll be okay. I also get savings bonds through payroll deduction, and those can't lose value either.

Originally Posted by Diamond45

I don't like Barrack Osama . I don't like John McPalin .

Is there a third candidate that will actually do something for this country?

Not really.

As otherwise observed, Bob Barr is only about half Libertarian; he still holds to many GOP credos. Interestingly, the guy who got Barr to switch allegiances and 'sign on' as a Libertarian now refuses to support him, for a few reasons, one of which appears to be mostly semantic.

On a personal and purely selfish level, I'm hoping Barr doesn't win because he's the trial lawyer for a friend of mine, IF his case ever goes to trial, and being POTUS might affect his trial schedule.

As for the Green Party candidate, Cynthia McKinney.....well, the only good news there is, at least her fumbling attempt to remain in the public eye got her the hell out of Georgia.

Originally Posted by BlackRoseMetalHeart

Oh, and while we are on the subject of the economy and politics ...
Bills I Believe Should Be Introduced:
* It should be made illegal for US corporations over a certain size to outsource work overseas (or at least put a cap on it ... say no more than 30 or 40% can be outsources outside of the US). - This would keep jobs in the US and bring us one step closer to helping us stabilize our economy. We need to stop sending work out of this country. I don't care if you can pay 6 telemarketers in India to work for what it would cost to employ one person here in the US. The people and the economy of this country need those job here, not for you to abandon them so that you can give yourself and your board of directors buddies extra bonuses this quarter.

Hey, how bout a better idea that doesn't involve government control (which I abhor):

Let's do what Ireland did!

Ireland recently made history by slashing their corporate tax rates. Their national economy, which had been sputtering along like most of Europe's, took off like a rocket and is now the envy of Europe, with corporations bringing their assets, money and jobs to Ireland.

It's simple: the harder a government makes it for business to DO business, the more you can wave their money and those jobs goodbye. The US has one of the highest corporate tax rates in the industrialized world...is it any wonder that companies are less inclined to do business here?


This is one of the problems I have with Obama: when you plan to penalize companies or small businesses for achieving by raising their tax rates, as he does, not only do you make it harder for them to employ people or keep the economy running, you also say to achievers "Congratulations! You've done well! But as a matter of fairness, we will now take more of your capital and give it to others who are failures."
Remember that 80% of new jobs in this country originate with small businesses.....yet these entrepreneurs are the very people that Obama's tax hikes will hurt the most.
Why the hell should ANYONE strive to achieve in this country when the government will simply take more of your success away from you? It's self-defeating. You cannot tax yourself into prosperity; it didn't work for Ancient Rome, and it hasn't worked since.

When asked why he favors increasing taxes on the "rich", Joe Biden actually said "It's only fair."

To his credit, he does know that when taxes are reduced, as they were in 2001, the revenue into the government actually increases, due to more economy activity fostered by the cuts. When you increase taxes, the incoming revenue declines. So for Biden, it's not a question of improving the country or growing the economy, it's a matter of buying votes.
Gosh, thanks, Joe. Two cheers for ya.

And this is supposed to be the 'change' that Obama keeps promising? It's just business as usual in Washington.

[booB]

Originally Posted by Pellaz

On a personal and purely selfish level, I'm hoping Barr doesn't win because he's the trial lawyer for a friend of mine, IF his case ever goes to trial, and being POTUS might affect his trial schedule.

I think this would be HIGHLY unlikely. Although, despite the fact that Barr is a Republican, NOT a Libertarian in any sense of the word, I will be voting Libertarian. It's a shame Ron Paul tried to run Republican instead of running Libertarian; if he had, he'd still be running now, and he might actually get enough support for the Libs so that they could earn matching campaign contributions in four years.

[Diamond45]

Originally Posted by Magius

Waste of time. Neither alternative party has a viable candidate.

Sadly, I know this

I wish there was a political party "down the middle".

Seriously - I wish there was a "moderate" party - taking some things from the left and taking some things from the right. Because that's where my political beliefs are right now.....

I agree with Boob's statement that if Ron Paul had run as Libertarian that they'd actually have a viable candidate.

[Jibrille]

Originally Posted by Diamond45

Sadly, I know this

I wish there was a political party "down the middle".

Seriously - I wish there was a "moderate" party - taking some things from the left and taking some things from the right. Because that's where my political beliefs are right now.....

I agree with Boob's statement that if Ron Paul had run as Libertarian that they'd actually have a viable candidate.

Generally speaking the candidates are far more moderate come election time but so many people are pissed off at the "republicans" that they don't give a shit about being a moderate. And right now McCain isn't much less of a liberal than Obama by supporting the bailout and now saying he wants to give checks to people to pay off their mortgages. This goes against everything that a true republican is and it's pissing off conservatives just as much.

McCain is really rubbing me the wrong way because he's now exactly the opposite of what I believe which is social liberalism and fiscal conservatism. Problem is that even my social liberalism doesn't go well with the democrats because I fully believe everyone should have the same rights (gay marriage/civil union/whatever) but I don't think people should just be given handouts, especially this bailout package bullshit. I don't trust the Congress to understand what is going on and I certainly don't trust the companies at the heart of all of this to use the money wisely which can already be seen with that little resort trip taken by AIG "top moneymakers."

So, considering I hate both candidates right now I'm thinking I will vote third party just to add to those numbers.

[edgeofthorns]

Originally Posted by Magius

Waste of time. Neither alternative party has a viable candidate.

The "Libertarian" candidate isn't a Libertarian. Bob Barr is an old school Republican conservative. The LP stuck him on the ticket for some name recognition. If you're inclined to vote for a conservative vote for McCain.

The Green Party's nominee is Cynthia McKinney. Total fruitcake. If you're inclinded to vote left, you might as well help Obama.

Well, Magius I can't argue here. Your statement pretty much sums it up.

~Brian~

[edgeofthorns]

Originally Posted by nailz

Hardly. this is America. You're free to be as wrong as you want.

Yeah, yeah, yeah...

~Brian~

[nailz]

Originally Posted by Pellaz

This is one of the problems I have with Obama: when you plan to penalize companies or small businesses for achieving by raising their tax rates, as he does, not only do you make it harder for them to employ people or keep the economy running, you also say to achievers "Congratulations! You've done well! But as a matter of fairness, we will now take more of your capital and give it to others who are failures."
Remember that 80% of new jobs in this country originate with small businesses.....yet these entrepreneurs are the very people that Obama's tax hikes will hurt the most.

And this is supposed to be the 'change' that Obama keeps promising? It's just business as usual in Washington.

If you actually listen to Obama's plan, or read it, his tax plan would not only give a tax break to 95% of tax payers but he would also not even touch the taxes of the Small businesses you're so vehemently defending. He's said countless times in debates, in rebuttle to the same dredge-mccain-rhetoric you're parroting, that nearly ALL small businesses in America do not exceed $250,000 profit per year, and his tax plan does not touch them.

McCain, however, will do nothing for Small Business, but he's planning on saying "Oh, big business, you've done really well! Here's MORE money! Sorry little guy, we've got nothing for you."

[nailz]

Originally Posted by Jibrille

McCain is really rubbing me the wrong way because he's now exactly the opposite of what I believe which is social liberalism and fiscal conservatism.

Wow, I've always tried to put into words what I believe, and you've done it for me nicely. Thanks.

[DAVETHEMETALGUY]

If you purchased $1,000 of shares in Delta Airlines one year ago, you will have $49.00 today.
If you had purchased $1,000 of shares in AIG one year ago, you will have $33.00 today.
If you had purchased $1,000 of shares in Lehman Brothers one year ago, you will have $0.00 today.

But, if you had purchased $1,000 worth of beer one year ago, drank all the beer, then turned in the aluminum cans for recycling refund, you will have received $214.00.

Based on the above, the best current investment plan is to drink heavily & recycle.
It's called the 401-Keg.

A recent study found that the average American walks about 900 miles a year. Another study found that Americans drink, on average, 22 gallons of alcohol a year. That means that, on average, Americans get about 41 miles to the gallon.