2008 Iron Maiden Tour Merchandise

[The_Q]

Originally Posted by Sumeet

Well, I have to say, after spending way too much time thinking / talking about it, I went to the show on June 14 in Holmdel, and made out big-time on t-shirt front. Everyone I was with was getting a shirt, so I sort of felt pressured into getting one, heh. I went up to the booth and asked for one of the "statue of liberty" shirts that was only sold at the New York and New Jersey shows, and had those dates (June 14, 2008 and June 15, 2008) listed on back. It was $35, as were all the other t-shirts. The guy behind the vendor booth gave me the shirt, I handed him a $100 bill, and he went over to his cash box and very quickly counted out the change and handed it to me. I noticed something a little odd when he was counting it, and confirmed this when I was walking to my seat and counted it myself, finding that he gave me $125 in change. So, basically, he had just paid me $25 to take the shirt. Then things proceeded to go pretty well from there. When Lauren Harris came on, the place was like 1/8 filled, so I was able to get fairly close up and watch her prancing around in her skin-tight leather pants, lol. Then, as I was waiting for Trivium to come on, I took a look at the venue's program-guide booklet, and noticed that they had a ridiculous "designated driver" program. So I signed up for it, and got a free soda. Just when I was starting to get thirsty, too! Then, when Iron Maiden came on, I was able to swing right by the guy who was guarding the aisle, and get from the 22nd row up to the 6th row. The greatest thing was when some guy came up asking everyone to see their tickets. When he got to me, I acted casual and handed him my ticket, getting ready to give him the "What? I'm in the wrong seat? Oh, my mistake, if you show me where my seat is I'd be happy to go there!" But he glanced at my ticket, said "Thanks!" and walked away. Then the show itself was obviously incredible. So even though I had to travel 1100 miles to see them (admittedly, I needed to make a trip to New Jersey anyway, so I just scheduled it at the time of the show), and the ticket cost over $90, I guess I made out pretty well, heh.

You didn't say if you returned the incorrect change to the vendor or not. If you did, what a honest righteous guy you are. If you didn't you are nothing more than a thief, especially because you noticed it! Sure it was their mistake but that would be very dishonest to do.

[Sumeet]

Originally Posted by The_Q

You didn't say if you returned the incorrect change to the vendor or not. If you did, what a honest righteous guy you are. If you didn't you are nothing more than a thief, especially because you noticed it! Sure it was their mistake but that would be very dishonest to do.

No, I didn't return the excess change. And yes, I am far too cynical to claim that I am an "honest righteous guy", so you're right there. I don't know if that makes me "nothing more than a thief", as personally, I do see some difference in getting excess change through no action of my own, and actually reaching into the cash box and grabbing money out of it... I mean, declining to look a gift horse in the mouth does not constitute active theft.

Also, having bought such an expensive ticket and t-shirt, I was already feeling vaguely pissed off about how high the costs were, so giving away extra money that had just dropped into my lap wasn't the first thing on my mind. Granted, if I thought the costs were too high, I could have chosen simply not to go, but since I went even though I thought the costs were high, you can perhaps understand that while I was not going to physically grab someone else's money or property, I was not in the most magnanimous mood, and didn't have a strong urge to return money that was dropped in my lap, to a huge corporation that was already profiting handsomely from me.

Would I have thought differently about it if it were not some minimum-wage guy working a corporate vendor booth, but instead some small, independent vendor who was personally going to take a hit by losing that money? Yes. In that case I probably would have given the money back. Is that truly the proper way to think? No. A company isn't any more deserving of cashiering errors just because it's larger... but even if it's not, that's the thought process.

Also, at the end of the day, what would have happened if the guy had given me *less* change than I was owed? A small independent vendor might have worked with me on it. But in this situation, if I came storming back to this guy 4 - 5 minutes later saying he shorted me on change, exactly how likely do you think it is that he would have popped open the cash box and given me the extra money? Again, the truly "honest righteous guy" you mention above would probably return the excess money he was given, even with the knowledge that he would not be treated so fairly if he had been shorted on change. Such a morally upright person would feel that other people's failure to act righteously does not give him license to do the same.

However, like most people, I've been screwed enough times in life that I'm too cynical at this point to be that "honest righteous guy". I consider myself a relatively OK person, but yeah, there are certain morally ambiguous areas where if I feel like I'm making out, I'll just roll with it. Perhaps you are honest and righteous enough to have returned the excess change simply on principle. If so, congratulations. But the fact is, the majority of people aren't, even if they wouldn't admit it. If they were, you wouldn't even need a cashier at the vendor booth, you could just put all the shirts out there, and have a big bowl of money in the middle with a sign reading "Take shirt, leave money!"

[DoomsdayZach]

I think that it's a little ridiculous to insinuate that this guy is awful for taking money that was handed to him. I would have kept it too if i'm going to be honest. In general, life screws you so when you have an opportunity to get a bit ahead, especially when it doesn't involve stepping on the "little guy" to get ahead, I'm going to take it.

[The_Q]

I still stand by my comment. Its merely my opinion. Dishonesty is dishonesty no matter how you look at it. You can't be a little bit a thief just like you can't be a little bit pregnant.

[Sumeet]

Originally Posted by The_Q

I still stand by my comment. Its merely my opinion.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. But don't try to back down now. You're proposing moral absolutes here. If right is right and wrong is wrong, as you suggest, that's not something that you can just write off as being merely an opinion. It would, by definition, be an absolute fact. The only way it could be merely an opinion is if there was some potential for moral ambiguity... but your very premise of moral absolutism directly contradicts that possibility.

Originally Posted by The_Q

Dishonesty is dishonesty no matter how you look at it.

Perhaps. But considering that I never made any claim to be an ultra-moral, super-honest guy, I don't see how this applies. I also didn't make any specific commitment before walking in there not to accept excess change that might be given to me.

Originally Posted by The_Q

You can't be a little bit a thief just like you can't be a little bit pregnant.

Indeed. In this case, I am not at all a thief, and not at all pregnant. If I reached into the guy's cash box and took the money, that would make me a thief. Not returning excess change that was handed to me does not make me a thief.

The way you phrased this comment leads me to believe you did not really even read or consider the points I made in my post. And perhaps your determination to view the world in strict black and white terms stems from the fact that you have always taken the most morally upright stance, and have never done anything in your entire life that could ever be called into question. If so, congratulations. Also, perhaps you have not had the number and extent of experiences in your life of the kind which have made me a cynical asshole, and you have thus maintained a righteous perspective. If so, congratulations again. You are truly a beacon of morality in these troubled times.*

* Yes, that last sentence was me being sarcastic and cynical. I figured I better point that out, since based on your posts, it's apparently not a frame of mind you're familiar with. If that's the case, I actually sort of envy you. How nice it would be to always operate with the absolute certainty that everything I do is the absolute right thing.

[The_Q]

Originally Posted by Sumeet

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. But don't try to back down now. You're proposing moral absolutes here. If right is right and wrong is wrong, as you suggest, that's not something that you can just write off as being merely an opinion. It would, by definition, be an absolute fact. The only way it could be merely an opinion is if there was some potential for moral ambiguity... but your very premise of moral absolutism directly contradicts that possibility.



Perhaps. But considering that I never made any claim to be an ultra-moral, super-honest guy, I don't see how this applies. I also didn't make any specific commitment before walking in there not to accept excess change that might be given to me.



Indeed. In this case, I am not at all a thief, and not at all pregnant. If I reached into the guy's cash box and took the money, that would make me a thief. Not returning excess change that was handed to me does not make me a thief.

The way you phrased this comment leads me to believe you did not really even read or consider the points I made in my post. And perhaps your determination to view the world in strict black and white terms stems from the fact that you have always taken the most morally upright stance, and have never done anything in your entire life that could ever be called into question. If so, congratulations. Also, perhaps you have not had the number and extent of experiences in your life of the kind which have made me a cynical asshole, and you have thus maintained a righteous perspective. If so, congratulations again. You are truly a beacon of morality in these troubled times.*

* Yes, that last sentence was me being sarcastic and cynical. I figured I better point that out, since based on your posts, it's apparently not a frame of mind you're familiar with. If that's the case, I actually sort of envy you. How nice it would be to always operate with the absolute certainty that everything I do is the absolute right thing.

I am not backing down from anything. I read your reply many times and understand what you did. When you take everything into account what you did was wrong plain and simple. Like it or not. Does that make me perfect? Hell No!!!!! And yes right and wrong seems to go from person to person these days. Unfortunately what our society deems right and wrong rarely transcends from society to the individual person. This is the way I have always felt. There are a few times in my life that I am not proud of. But it is those times that have helped shape my moral beliefs to the person I am today. My question is this, Why do you think I am backing down from something merely because I replied that I stand by my comment? Thats kind of strange don't you think?

[The_Q]

Originally Posted by Sumeet

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. But don't try to back down now.

And furthermore I would never back down from something I firmly believe in. You can ask anyone that knows me.

[DAVETHEMETALGUY]

ok, this has OFFICIALLY nothing to do with Iron Maiden Merchandise now.

[The_Q]

Nope just a couple of dishonest guys and one guy thats trying to make them see that what they're doing is dishonest. Well, I'm done with this discussion. I could talk and talk until I'm blue in the face. And you guys can say what you want about life being unfair to you and if an opportunity comes up I'll take the money but nothing I say seems to make you look at what you did as dishonest. No its not like taking money out of a cashbox but its just the same because you noticed it. How hard would it honestly be to turn around and walk back to return it? Thats not how I live my life. I'm not better than anyone else either, far from it. I just thought it was really strange in your initial reply that you would actually admit to it. Did you ever think of the flip side? Like the guy doing inventory and counting the money? Having to possibly reach into his own pocket and come up with the difference? Those vendor people work for very little money. I know because I did that years ago. Lets just drop this OK?

[Daybreaker]

I would have come back in ten minutes and bought another shirt. Hey, two bitching Maiden shirts for basically ten bucks? Hell yea!

Plus a free drink (they're eight bucks here at the Verizon in San Antonio) and moving on up closer to the stage. Jesus man, did you pick up Elisha Cuthbert in the parking lot on the way home too? hahah