New DREAM THEATER thoughts??? - Page 4

dtfanatic · July 1st, 2009, 04:05 PM

And the band hit #6 on Billboard last week.

Very cool considering who surrounds them in that list.

Ascension · July 1st, 2009, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harvester

Write it down folks. I agree with Ascension.

l'm keeping my eye on the East...

J-Dubya 777 · July 1st, 2009, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harvester

Write it down folks. I agree with Ascension.

Oh NO! Not you too!

Scary, when it happens, isn't it?

TwizstedJesus · July 2nd, 2009, 08:06 AM

As a fan of Dream Theater since when Dominici was the singer, the band progressed very nicely through the years, Awake being my personal favorite. I felt that Falling Into Obscurity was rock bottom, especially after Change of Seasons EP was so damn awesome. SFAM righted the ship once again, Six Degrees was more hit than miss, then...DISASTER! Train of Thought was my least favorite, until Octovarium became my least favorite, until Systematic Chaos...etc,etc... It has nothing to do with me not being a fan of progressive music ( Yes,I took that personal since I've been a fan of the genre since Watchtower "Control & Resistance" or even Fates Warning "No Exit"...20 years as a prog dog!). It has something to do with me not liking the direction that DT has taken. Similiar to Fates Warning's direction after APSOG, fans like what they like and when new elements are entered into the picture,some get turned off. With Dream Theater its the "Cookie Monster" vocals by Portnoy,which just completely ruin the songs. With Fates,the industrial elements that are creeping in to their recent music.
Newer bands like PathosRay Scale The Summit and Circus Maximus are the future of progressive metal. The old guns are starting to fade away for me,so I search for new exciting developments in the genre. The fans only jump ship when they can no longer find satisfaction in their once favorite bands music I.E. "The Queensryche Condition". You keep buying the new material hoping that you'll be stunned once again(the amazing interplay between Jordan and John in the early days now seems so cliche),but it happens less each successive release.

I'm glad that DT still has a strong fan base. I've just started to lose interest, no more, no less

Pelata · July 2nd, 2009, 08:25 AM

Awake is my personal favorite as well, but I became a fan on I&W. "A Change Of Seasons" is the best single song the band ever recordedm IMO. For my money, Falling Into Infinity was better than SFAM...SFAM didn't stick as hard as FII did. After seeing them on the 6DoIT tour, my interest faded and ToT and Octo didn't get a lot of attention from me...it all sounded samey. But Systematic Chaos brought me back, and I haven't heard BC&SL yet (I get it tomorrow), but I love "Rite Of Passage"...

Ascension · July 2nd, 2009, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwizstedJesus

As a fan of Dream Theater since when Dominici was the singer, the band progressed very nicely through the years, Awake being my personal favorite. I felt that Falling Into Obscurity was rock bottom, especially after Change of Seasons EP was so damn awesome. SFAM righted the ship once again,

As l suspected & mentioned earlier.

Quote:

Newer bands like PathosRay Scale The Summit and Circus Maximus are the future of progressive metal.

l can understand the enamor with Pathosray...l like what they bring too. Scale the Summit...no vocals. How long can that last? Circus Maximus...purely a DT/SyX derivative. Sure you like them...they take the early elements of DT (with the exception of the stolen Rudess key patch) that you miss, mix them with SyX elements that you like...voila. Not much of an identity to speak of...how long can that last? And chances are these bands won't exist in 10 years.

Quote:

The fans only jump ship when they can no longer find satisfaction in their once favorite bands music I.E. "The Queensryche Condition".

That logic is a total fail. The comparison is not even close. QR completely abandoned the genre that put them on the map. DT continues to be the most relevant band in the genre. FW has remained true although sporadic with new material.

Quote:

I'm glad that DT still has a strong fan base. I've just started to lose interest, no more, no less

It happens. Old fans drop out. The key is being able to keep the music relevant & draw new fans to it and the genre as a whole. DT seems to be accomplishing that quite well.

Pelata · July 2nd, 2009, 10:33 AM

Quote:

.QR completely abandoned the genre that put them on the map

IMO, QR were only Metal-like on the EP and The Warning. RFO was not a Metal album...a lot of it was a something of a pre-cursor to Hard Industrial (like Sabbath was a pre-cursor to Doom) with all the digitized elements blended w/ guitars...O:MC was not Metal...it was a Hard Rock Opera...Empire was nowhere near Metal...it was a slick Melodic Rock album w/o the girly elements...Promised Land wasn't Metal...dark and weird, but not Metal...beyond that everyone thinks they suck (generally)...

In fact, if you look at the albums in order, QR never made the same album twice so I don't really know which style they supposedly abandoned. It's almost like they "abandon" the previous record's style with each subsequebnt record.

Before Empire, they were not "on the map" at all in terms of sales/popularity outside of Metal/Hard Rock circles. O:MC didn't really take off until after Empire when QR was playing it on tour every night in packed arenas. Nobody called QR "Progressive" or "Prog" at all back in the day...that came up later on and I can see how they were maybe a pre-cursor to it on The Warning, but that's about it. They got called "Metal", but then again so did Poison and Bon Jovi so that doesn't really mean much. They had elements in their music that came from and later influneced other Metal, but IMO they stopped being at least "mostly" Metal after The Warning.

DT has never released an album without at least a couple 8 or 9 minutes songs, if not 12 or 15 minutes and their only real attempt at a radio single was "Another Day" and it flopped in that sense. But they have done things musically that not all of thier fans can agree on, as is obvious in this thread. Bands change, evolve, whatever...and the fans usually won't like every single thing a band does. So, saying "The fans only jump ship when they can no longer find satisfaction in their once favorite bands music" is completely and totally logical. It has nothing to do with adhering to a genre specification.

Ascension · July 2nd, 2009, 11:02 AM

It's widely understood today that QR & FW are the grandfathers of progressive metal. Yeah...back in the day, the term progressive wasn't even related to them...it was all lumped into the term "metal". Iron Maiden wasn't power metal...just metal.

Quote:

So, saying "The fans only jump ship when they can no longer find satisfaction in their once favorite bands music" is completely and totally logical.

That part is true...like l mentioned, it happens. But the comparison with QR's situation doesn't even come close to working.

Pelata · July 2nd, 2009, 11:08 AM

I think it does a little...I mean, DT is doing something some fans don't like...just like QR is...there are just different reasons for them not liking it.

But anyway, splitting hairs can get tedious. LOL!

And yeah, I know QR and FW are considered the grandfathers of Prog Metal, like SABBATH are the grandfather's of Doom...the terms didn't exist then...but when newer bands began emulating then expanding on these core sounds, the style eventually got it's own name. That's what I was saying about being a pre-cursor to it.

SharkBlack · July 2nd, 2009, 11:56 AM

I like it a lot. And for the record, Portnoy's backing vocals are cool to me...

KingsGene · July 2nd, 2009, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtfanatic

And the band hit #6 on Billboard last week.

Very cool considering who surrounds them in that list.

This is simply amazing.

General Zod · July 2nd, 2009, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ascension

Circus Maximus...purely a DT/SyX derivative. Sure you like them...they take the early elements of DT (with the exception of the stolen Rudess key patch) that you miss, mix them with SyX elements that you like...voila.

The list of bands whose style can't be traced back to a few primary influences, is next to nil. Even with seminal bands, if you looked through their music collections, I'm sure it wouldn't be impossible to figure out where their sound came from. To dismiss Circus Maximus as having merely interlaced the sounds of two brilliant bands, via superb songwriting and excellent live performances, seems a bit rash.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ascension

And chances are these bands won't exist in 10 years.

Not exactly the most relevant value of quality. Bands break up for a myriad of reasons, with lack of originality not topping the list of reasons. With respect to Circus Maximus, I'm very curious to see if and how much their sound evolves with their 3rd release.

Zod

Ascension · July 2nd, 2009, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelata

I think it does a little...I mean, DT is doing something some fans don't like...just like QR is...there are just different reasons for them not liking it.

But anyway, splitting hairs can get tedious. LOL!

That's what I was saying about being a pre-cursor to it.

But, QR jumped ship themselves...to a different ship than the fans. DT has remained onboard their ship...the fans that jumped just wanted the same buffet over & over again.

Yes very tedious...yet l remain vigilant.

Gotcha on the precursor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by General Zod

To dismiss Circus Maximus as having merely interlaced the sounds of two brilliant bands, via superb songwriting and excellent live performances, seems a bit rash.

Just calling it as l see it (or hear it). Not much identity for them aside from the very good vocalist. l see him parting ways with them.

Quote:

With respect to Circus Maximus, I'm very curious to see if and how much their sound evolves with their 3rd release.

Me too...it's much needed...hopefully in a good direction.

TheLongshot · July 3rd, 2009, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ascension

Yeah...most want another I&W or Awake and they're not getting it. They don't understand the term "progressive". DT retains elements from their earlier years in just about every release, even moreso in BC&SL...but alot of people want clones of those 2. Taking that in consideration, I have to wonder if they are even fans of the progressive metal genre at all. BC&SL has all the elements you look for in a great prog metal release. Maybe too much of a DT hater mentality. A band gains the top ranking in a genre...next thing you see is some of their "so called" fans jumping ship. They don't feel the band is exclusive to them anymore & not catering to their needs...i.e. another I&W/Awake/SfaM.

Not to worry...going to the shows...observances of younger fans scattered in the audience says that DT is reaching a newer fanbase after every release. A great signal of longevity for them.

To be honest, I thought from SFAM til Systematic Chaos, I pretty much felt the band was mostly treading water, mostly happy to play with other bands' styles. Octovarium was a low point for my fanship with them. Some good songs, but most of it was pretty bland.

Systematic Chaos was a real kick in the pants for me and it is the first time in a while that I was truly excited for the band again. Black Clouds doesn't quite go up to that level, but it isn't that much of a dropoff for me.

TheLongshot · July 3rd, 2009, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by General Zod

The list of bands whose style can't be traced back to a few primary influences, is next to nil. Even with seminal bands, if you looked through their music collections, I'm sure it wouldn't be impossible to figure out where their sound came from. To dismiss Circus Maximus as having merely interlaced the sounds of two brilliant bands, via superb songwriting and excellent live performances, seems a bit rash.

I know I'm in the minority here, but I don't find Circus Maximus to be all that special. I agree with the previous poster that all of those bands have a long way to go to be that band.

To me, the best progressive metal band out there is Pain Of Salvation. Those guys are the definition of progressive to my ears.

General Zod · July 3rd, 2009, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ascension

Just calling it as l see it (or hear it). Not much identity for them aside from the very good vocalist. l see him parting ways with them.

I recently interviewed Mike. While no one knows what goes on behind the scenes, I don't see that happening. He's been playing with Mats and Truls for nearly 14 years and he thinks the world of them.

Zod

Pellaz · July 4th, 2009, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harvester

Write it down folks. I agree with Ascension.

Quote:

DT charted #6 on the Billboard chart

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingsGene

This is simply amazing.

It's especially sweet considering the nature of the CD, with no song under ten minutes. I'm hoping there are some considering stares and thoughtful looks in some record-company offices this week.

Pelata · July 4th, 2009, 12:01 PM

2 of the songs are under 10 minutes...

Pellaz · July 6th, 2009, 12:25 AM

Sorry, should have said "average length over ten minutes." And only one song that's remotely close to 4 or 5.

Pelata · July 6th, 2009, 08:57 AM

I'm on my 3rd spin of BC&SL now and I am really liking it. It's pretty different from the band's early material, but then they do tend to try different things. So far, this record for me has a dark, moody vibe coupled with the band's technical ferocity. It's the closest thing to Awake they've done since that album, IMO. I've also noticed James' vibrato has been reeled in a bit, something I haven't noticed since FII...I guess this is an attempt to sound contemporary while still sounding like DT. There are no songs I don't like, but so far I love "Wither" and "A Nightmare To Remember"...but, again, all the songs are really good. Parts of "ANtR" remind me of OPETH musically...dark, heavy and epic.

It's good to be a DT fan again...I've missed them...

wildfyr · July 13th, 2009, 04:12 AM

Not that I'm opposed, but I'm glad they didn't hang with any cookie on this one.

July 2nd, 2009, 11:56 AM	#85 (permalink)
SharkBlack Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: San Jose, Ca Posts: 2,446	I like it a lot. And for the record, Portnoy's backing vocals are cool to me... __________________ www.myspace.com/raiderblack Is he smiling? Or does he want to eat you?

July 6th, 2009, 12:25 AM	#94 (permalink)
Pellaz Tigron of Immanion Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 7,236	Sorry, should have said "average length over ten minutes." And only one song that's remotely close to 4 or 5. __________________ http://www.paulcashman.com pellaz1@comcast.net Proud sponsor of Tyr, Orphaned Land, Amorphis, Sonata Arctica, Mercenary, Therion, Pain of Salvation, Nightwish and Devin Townsend Band for ProgPowers past and current! On SeismicRadio as DJ-Pellaz: http://www.seismicradio.com Also on WREKage, 11:59pm Fri - 5am Sat: http://www.wrekage.org 91.1 FM Atlanta -- Atlanta radio's true home of metal for more than 20 years, also streamed live and archived for a week!

July 13th, 2009, 04:12 AM	#96 (permalink)
wildfyr unus spiritus est Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: real-time Posts: 3,454	Not that I'm opposed, but I'm glad they didn't hang with any cookie on this one. __________________ There will be zero tolerance In loyalty to their kind they cannot tolerate our minds / In loyalty to our kind we cannot tolerate their obstruction

July 1st, 2009, 04:05 PM	#76 (permalink)
dtfanatic Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 100	And the band hit #6 on Billboard last week. Very cool considering who surrounds them in that list.

July 2nd, 2009, 08:06 AM	#79 (permalink)
TwizstedJesus Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 318	As a fan of Dream Theater since when Dominici was the singer, the band progressed very nicely through the years, Awake being my personal favorite. I felt that Falling Into Obscurity was rock bottom, especially after Change of Seasons EP was so damn awesome. SFAM righted the ship once again, Six Degrees was more hit than miss, then...DISASTER! Train of Thought was my least favorite, until Octovarium became my least favorite, until Systematic Chaos...etc,etc... It has nothing to do with me not being a fan of progressive music ( Yes,I took that personal since I've been a fan of the genre since Watchtower "Control & Resistance" or even Fates Warning "No Exit"...20 years as a prog dog!). It has something to do with me not liking the direction that DT has taken. Similiar to Fates Warning's direction after APSOG, fans like what they like and when new elements are entered into the picture,some get turned off. With Dream Theater its the "Cookie Monster" vocals by Portnoy,which just completely ruin the songs. With Fates,the industrial elements that are creeping in to their recent music. Newer bands like PathosRay Scale The Summit and Circus Maximus are the future of progressive metal. The old guns are starting to fade away for me,so I search for new exciting developments in the genre. The fans only jump ship when they can no longer find satisfaction in their once favorite bands music I.E. "The Queensryche Condition". You keep buying the new material hoping that you'll be stunned once again(the amazing interplay between Jordan and John in the early days now seems so cliche),but it happens less each successive release. I'm glad that DT still has a strong fan base. I've just started to lose interest, no more, no less

July 2nd, 2009, 08:25 AM	#80 (permalink)
Pelata Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: North Carolina Posts: 646	Awake is my personal favorite as well, but I became a fan on I&W. "A Change Of Seasons" is the best single song the band ever recordedm IMO. For my money, Falling Into Infinity was better than SFAM...SFAM didn't stick as hard as FII did. After seeing them on the 6DoIT tour, my interest faded and ToT and Octo didn't get a lot of attention from me...it all sounded samey. But Systematic Chaos brought me back, and I haven't heard BC&SL yet (I get it tomorrow), but I love "Rite Of Passage"...

July 2nd, 2009, 11:08 AM	#84 (permalink)
Pelata Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: North Carolina Posts: 646	I think it does a little...I mean, DT is doing something some fans don't like...just like QR is...there are just different reasons for them not liking it. But anyway, splitting hairs can get tedious. LOL! And yeah, I know QR and FW are considered the grandfathers of Prog Metal, like SABBATH are the grandfather's of Doom...the terms didn't exist then...but when newer bands began emulating then expanding on these core sounds, the style eventually got it's own name. That's what I was saying about being a pre-cursor to it.

July 4th, 2009, 12:01 PM	#93 (permalink)
Pelata Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: North Carolina Posts: 646	2 of the songs are under 10 minutes...

July 6th, 2009, 08:57 AM	#95 (permalink)
Pelata Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: North Carolina Posts: 646	I'm on my 3rd spin of BC&SL now and I am really liking it. It's pretty different from the band's early material, but then they do tend to try different things. So far, this record for me has a dark, moody vibe coupled with the band's technical ferocity. It's the closest thing to Awake they've done since that album, IMO. I've also noticed James' vibrato has been reeled in a bit, something I haven't noticed since FII...I guess this is an attempt to sound contemporary while still sounding like DT. There are no songs I don't like, but so far I love "Wither" and "A Nightmare To Remember"...but, again, all the songs are really good. Parts of "ANtR" remind me of OPETH musically...dark, heavy and epic. It's good to be a DT fan again...I've missed them...