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Old June 11th, 2012, 04:09 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Agree to disagree...........

Too much goth influences and harsh vox for me to simply call MDB a doom metal band.

Hell, you guys get your panties in a twist if someone calls DragonForce power metal.

At least I am making a distinction musically.
agree to disagree is merely a weak way to backdown. HAHA
"dark metal" seriously man? Repeat that to yourself a few times and hear how stupid it sounds. Then put it in context of how you are using. Damn I was turning iolent every time I heard that Canadian dipshit Dunn say it. For godsake it is fuckin heavy metal must of it is DARK.
There are several things that could be argued about how My Dying Bride are doomier than Candlemass; Candlemass has pretty covers, up tempo songs, some positive lyrics (somewhat),- MDB; dark cover, all down tempo, lyrics all tranlate to doom, doo , doom.
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Old June 11th, 2012, 04:14 PM   #52 (permalink)
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The first time I saw the use of the term DARK METAL was from THE END RECORDS online catalog.
I think it is PERFECTLY fitting for the bands I mention who combine elements of doom, death, goth, and avante garde.
I would not call power, progressive, thrash, heavy, NWOBHM, "dark metal"
As you said, it's all subjective.

As for CANDLEMASS, I agree with you man.
I have said it MANY times. They are the "power metal" of doom bands!
Well, at least the Messiah albums are.
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Old June 12th, 2012, 12:35 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Hrmm.....
I think due to the vocals I would have an issue calling them melodic speed.
What difference do the vocals make? If they had a different type of singer, would they be a different genre?
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Old June 12th, 2012, 12:38 PM   #54 (permalink)
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"dark metal" seriously man? Repeat that to yourself a few times and hear how stupid it sounds. Then put it in context of how you are using. Damn I was turning iolent every time I heard that Canadian dipshit Dunn say it. For godsake it is fuckin heavy metal must of it is DARK.
Jason's dark metal genre is no less stupid or invalid than any other metal subgenre. You have no problem using the term power metal, but isn't most metal powerful? Why is calling a band dark metal stupid, but calling another band power metal isn't?
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Old June 12th, 2012, 01:13 PM   #55 (permalink)
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Jason's dark metal genre is no less stupid or invalid than any other metal subgenre. You have no problem using the term power metal, but isn't most metal powerful? Why is calling a band dark metal stupid, but calling another band power metal isn't?
Because power metal is an established genre, and just about everyone understands it's definition and scope. Dark metal is much less defined, and much less understood.

Here's a test: At the next show you go to, ask random fans to name some power metal bands. Then do the same with dark metal. I'd bet 90% of those fans are going to answer "huh?" to the second question.
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Old June 12th, 2012, 01:14 PM   #56 (permalink)
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What difference do the vocals make? If they had a different type of singer, would they be a different genre?
Normally I'd say no, but think of a band like Children of Bodom. Nothing about their music really points to death or black metal, but that's where they get lumped because of the harsh vocals. With clean vox they'd almost be a power metal band.
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Old June 12th, 2012, 01:59 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Well, for the record, in the 80s, we referred to bands like Metallica, Armored Saint, and Metal Church as "power metal"
Your average virgin pimple faced kid in a Prog Power shirt (and god bless them all!!!) wouldn't know that.

Also, who really cares how "well accepted" a genre term is?

As DMR said, there are tons of them. Some are more accepted than others.

Dark Metal combines elements of FOUR genres, which warrants its own name.

Don't agree? I don't care. You like VOLBEAT. Nuff said.
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Old June 12th, 2012, 02:00 PM   #58 (permalink)
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What difference do the vocals make? If they had a different type of singer, would they be a different genre?
Yes, if Kai Hansen sang for them............
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Old June 12th, 2012, 02:30 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Well, for the record, in the 80s, we referred to bands like Metallica, Armored Saint, and Metal Church as "power metal"
Your average virgin pimple faced kid in a Prog Power shirt (and god bless them all!!!) wouldn't know that.


Don't agree? I don't care. You like VOLBEAT. Nuff said.
Yes, those bands (except Metallica, of course) would have been power metal in the '80s, before Helloween and Gamma Ray reinvented the term.

And I LOVE Volbeat. They're my favorite dark metal band.
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Old June 12th, 2012, 02:36 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Awesome!!!! I always thought I heard some goth and death in them.
I have heard some VOLBEAT. I would have LOVED them in the 90s.
If it were 10 to 15 years ago they would have been on a never ending tour with Dropkick Murphys and Flogging Molly.

I have no idea how they are marketed the way they are.
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Old June 12th, 2012, 02:51 PM   #61 (permalink)
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Awesome!!!! I always thought I heard some goth and death in them.
I have heard some VOLBEAT. I would have LOVED them in the 90s.
If it were 10 to 15 years ago they would have been on a never ending tour with Dropkick Murphys and Flogging Molly.

I have no idea how they are marketed the way they are.
I have no idea how they're marketed at all. I just know they're total road warriors, and they're doing everything they can to get heard by American audiences. And they're one of most fun bands to listen to and see live, which goes a long way with me.
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Old June 12th, 2012, 03:14 PM   #62 (permalink)
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Road warriors indeed.
I mean I have no idea how they ever got on Glens radar for PP, or on the radar for Metallica, etc....
(well, I assume maybe Lars knew of them).

Just never thought based on their sound they would have received attention from the hard rock and metal scene.

DARK METAL OR NO METAL AT ALL!!!!!!!!!!
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Old June 12th, 2012, 07:46 PM   #63 (permalink)
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Well for Volbeat in terms of Progpower, when they were going to play, they were the oddball pick, so there was no real rhyme or reason other than he liked them.

As for how or why they're marketed the way they are, it's simple. From what I've seen the writers, publishers, etc. at Revolver fell in love with them. I believe their first headlining tour was even sponsored by them. I always find it interesting how certain publications get obsessed with certain bands, like how Rollingstone of all the metal bands they could latch onto over the years, have said the most praise about Mastodon and Meshuggah.
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Old June 12th, 2012, 09:30 PM   #64 (permalink)
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Well, for the record, in the 80s, we referred to bands like Metallica, Armored Saint, and Metal Church as "power metal"
Your average virgin pimple faced kid in a Prog Power shirt (and god bless them all!!!) wouldn't know that.

Also, who really cares how "well accepted" a genre term is?

As DMR said, there are tons of them. Some are more accepted than others.

Dark Metal combines elements of FOUR genres, which warrants its own name.

Don't agree? I don't care. You like VOLBEAT. Nuff said.
You are correct and yes even Metallica fell under that term before "thrash" was defined. And just the same was bands like Cirith Ungol, Candlemass and Trouble were just heavy metal and not "doom". The term doom did not really seem to take hold until Cathedral's debut.
And I'm guessing you have never seen a progpower audience; not many pimple face kids, more like balding over weight middle aged guys in stretched out Symphony X shirt. HAHAFew more years I will be able to blend in in if I would trade in the Tank shirt for Sonata Arctica.
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Old June 12th, 2012, 09:40 PM   #65 (permalink)
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Road warriors indeed.
I mean I have no idea how they ever got on Glens radar for PP,
Well the man does seem to have taste extended beyond the A typical cookie cutter power metal prog metal bands. And if he puts something on that is an "odd" pick all he has to do is tell his flock to like it and they will drink the Koolaid.
I personal think some of the more odd picks have been the best bands on that festival for instance Freak Kitchen, but it is looking like that is coming to an end. Now it is girl fest HAHA
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Old June 13th, 2012, 10:47 AM   #66 (permalink)
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Because power metal is an established genre, and just about everyone understands it's definition and scope. Dark metal is much less defined, and much less understood.

Here's a test: At the next show you go to, ask random fans to name some power metal bands. Then do the same with dark metal. I'd bet 90% of those fans are going to answer "huh?" to the second question.
"Just about everyone understands it's definition and scope?" No way! People have been arguing about the definition of power metal for years and years and probably always will. It never had a clear definition to begin with and now it means multiple things. You can ask random people to name power metal bands but you'll probably get a lot of different answers. One guy might say Helloween and Blind Guardian, the next would say Jag Panzer and Omen, the next might say Savatage and Crimson Glory, etc... And if you asked them all at the same time they'd argue for hours about why the other guys' bands aren't power metal.
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Old June 13th, 2012, 11:55 AM   #67 (permalink)
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"Just about everyone understands it's definition and scope?" No way! People have been arguing about the definition of power metal for years and years and probably always will. It never had a clear definition to begin with and now it means multiple things. You can ask random people to name power metal bands but you'll probably get a lot of different answers. One guy might say Helloween and Blind Guardian, the next would say Jag Panzer and Omen, the next might say Savatage and Crimson Glory, etc... And if you asked them all at the same time they'd argue for hours about why the other guys' bands aren't power metal.
I don't think there's anyone on this planet who would say Helloween is power metal and Jag Panzer isn't.

Power metal is a known and popularly accepted term. Dark metal isn't. I might call bands like Sonata Arctica 'flower metal', but I would never say they aren't power metal because they are flower metal.

At the end of the day, it's just fun to give Jason crap. Nobody really cares.
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Old June 13th, 2012, 11:58 AM   #68 (permalink)
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Well the man does seem to have taste extended beyond the A typical cookie cutter power metal prog metal bands. And if he puts something on that is an "odd" pick all he has to do is tell his flock to like it and they will drink the Koolaid.
I personal think some of the more odd picks have been the best bands on that festival for instance Freak Kitchen, but it is looking like that is coming to an end. Now it is girl fest HAHA
You know, I'd be willing to bet that PP is one of your, if not the number one, most profitable events of the year. And yet you continue to be a dick for no reason....

Makes zero sense. Don't bite the hand that feeds you.
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Old June 13th, 2012, 12:05 PM   #69 (permalink)
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At the end of the day, it's just fun to give Jason crap.
Well, obviously.
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Old June 13th, 2012, 12:07 PM   #70 (permalink)
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You know, I'd be willing to bet that PP is one of your, if not the number one, most profitable events of the year. And yet you continue to be a dick for no reason....

Makes zero sense. Don't bite the hand that feeds you.
free speech my freind....free speech.
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Old June 13th, 2012, 01:03 PM   #71 (permalink)
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Just never thought based on their sound they would have received attention from the hard rock and metal scene.
Their sound is 2/3 Metallica and Motorhead and the other 1/3 rockabilly and punk. Their appeal to hard rock and metal fans is pretty clear to me. Not so much power/progressive/doom or DARK metal, but at the general metal level it makes sense.

So have we completely derailed this thread yet?

Oh yeah, doom metal. No list is complete without at least one Evoken album.
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Old June 13th, 2012, 11:33 PM   #72 (permalink)
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You know, I'd be willing to bet that PP is one of your, if not the number one, most profitable events of the year. And yet you continue to be a dick for no reason....

Makes zero sense. Don't bite the hand that feeds you.
You would probably lose that bet.
Sure since it is basically the only sizable metal festival here in the U.S. it is one of the biggest events I do. However that festival is certainly nothing my business ever has or ever will need to rely on. One reason is that the metal I typically deal with doesn't go over very well there, and secondly it is a VERY targeted audience. I'm sure you will argue with that as with everything, and I'm sure you will be correct because you are in this business.
Hey he has fine taste I think, that we share in common on a lot of bands. And don't think that was negative or positive just simply the way it is.
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Old June 13th, 2012, 11:37 PM   #73 (permalink)
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free speech my freind....free speech.
Bob now you know that these forums are fascist driven, free speech doesn't exist here. The only thing that people are free to do in this forums is assume and make asses of themselves. Oh and put words in other peopls mouth.
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Old June 14th, 2012, 12:19 AM   #74 (permalink)
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Bob now you know that these forums are fascist driven, free speech doesn't exist here. The only thing that people are free to do in this forums is assume and make asses of themselves. Oh and put words in other peopls mouth.
my forum is all free speech. I make an ass out of myself daily here.
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Old June 14th, 2012, 08:46 AM   #75 (permalink)
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Their sound is 2/3 Metallica and Motorhead and the other 1/3 rockabilly and punk. Their appeal to hard rock and metal fans is pretty clear to me. Not so much power/progressive/doom or DARK metal, but at the general metal level it makes sense.
Well, I have only heard maybe three of their songs.
They all seemed a lot more punk than metal.
Maybe that's because I am extremely familiar with their punk influences as well, so maybe pick up more on that sound than someone who isn't.

Anyhow, the bottom line is I do think they are a good band with rocking tunes. If this was the mid 90s, I would probably be all over that band.

No band is in this business to lose money, so their marketing tactics surely have proven to be successful so good on them for that.

As far as derailing this thread, you haven't been paying close enough attention to whom the regulars are around here...
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