Steve, how'd you get buried on Human? - Page 2

Frank the tank · December 14th, 2006, 10:46 PM

and a bad lemmy? wtf? man what kind of beers were you drinkin ? sure made me laugh my ass off though

Miguel Suerte · December 20th, 2006, 10:03 PM

The album sounds great for the standard reel-to-reel recording but I dunno why Morrisound studios couldn't get digital in '91. It was expensive granted, but I knew someone back then (late '90) who had a full digital ADAT setup. He claimed few bands wanted into it because the tapes were so expensive. And what about the "Gathering"? The bass comes in and cuts out and some times it is completely inaudible.

FirstStrikeIsDeadly · January 5th, 2007, 06:58 AM

Steve, to quote what your thoughts where on the Control Denied issue again:

Quote:

Originally Posted by HippieOfDoom

Lastly, the Control Denied album that we all want to hear will most likely never see the light of day. It was squashed for the lamest reasons, and I'm done defending that whole thing. It's a waste of good songs and a discredit to the hard struggling work Chuck put forth to redeem what he thought was an attempt that came up short in the first album. That's just how I feel, and I realize when these comments go public I'll have to stand behind them. But I don't think I said anything disrespectful, and afterall, it's only my opinion.

What do you think about the latest rants between Guido, Tim, and the Schuldiner family? According to Chuck's sister: -Beth, the album will be finished sometime this year:

BLABBERMOUTH.NET - CHUCK SCHULDINER's Sister: CONTROL DENIED's Second Album Will be Released This Year

Ofcourse, there is a chance that this is just a hoax since it's merely posted on blabbermouth, instead of something official such as EmptyWords.org.

But I also happen to recall something about EmptyWords.org not wanting to post anything furthermore about the process of the Control Denied issue....

Disincarnate · January 5th, 2007, 11:34 AM

yea me too..id love to get hold of the human drum n bass tape

Disincarnate · January 10th, 2007, 07:38 AM

one thing i would like to know is what happened on Testament's Gathering?buried on human has been aksed too many times as well as been answered..but gathering?

Disincarnate · January 10th, 2007, 08:04 AM

one thing i would like to know is what happened on Testament's Gathering?buried on human has been aksed too many times as well as been answered..but gathering?

Satanstoenail · January 31st, 2007, 05:48 AM

I need to frequent this section more often, very interesting reading. Cheers Steve.

paradigm_shift · June 27th, 2007, 07:29 AM

Any chance of getting a listen to that tape?
Does anyone know where it can be found for download? I really am most interested.As I'm sure are the majority here...

AnTz0r · July 19th, 2011, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HippieOfDoom

A But trust me when I say that some of me and Chuck's last phone conversations included ideas on getting the master tapes and remixing it for the purpose of raising the bass level. That will never happen now.

...and justice for all, I guess. You got an official re-issue which is more than Newsted can say with his guitar-hero-remix. Anyway, I just found out human was re-released! It's amazing! Indeed those lines are fantastic, but on the other hand I'm not sure how well they work in the context of the songs. Still I don't care hehe.

What are your thoughts on the reissue, and how do you reflect back on that work now?

Bassbait · July 19th, 2011, 10:32 PM

In response to Steve's semi-rant -

Well, I don't know what happened, and frankly, I wasn't alive yet. But I have a feeling it wasn't really anybody's fault. I imagine each musician to think in their own mindset, with small amounts of empathy for other instruments. When you're dealing with mixing things, it becomes difficult to not make anything too loud or too quiet. And it's worsened when there's not a full party there to discuss it. I am working on a demo right now with my band (check some remnants of the final product on our facebook page, heh heh), and I'm afraid that the bass and drum levels are too loud. So we're going to bump the guitar higher. But then the drums and bass will be too quiet. I'm a guitarist, but I play bass and drums too, and I love all instruments and their application throughout the history of metal, but when it's the mind of two guitarists, a drummer, and a producer, the bass is most likely going to suffer the biggest downfall on the record. Fantastic playing, crappy production. I honestly have trouble listening to the original mix of Human because of the lack of significant bass. But I don't think it's because they hated the tracks or anything, I think it's simply because mixing an album needs multiple minds who think differently but have the same vision in mind, and with Human, I can't say for sure if that was the case, and I also can't say for sure if they intended the bass to be practically inaudible. But I just don't think any of the guys mixing it were very "bass conscious", as it seems that Chuck's bassists all seem relatively tame when it's not good ol' Steve behind the bass.

AnTz0r · July 20th, 2011, 12:44 AM

No. Thats why you have an engineer / producer, to make sure these kind of issues are fixed and product the musicians against themselves sometimes.

Allfader · July 21st, 2011, 09:11 AM

So Steve, what do you think about the new remix/remaster? Now the bass is decently audible (altought it's still hard to hear every note) and the whole sound is better.

The best part of the reissue is the inclusion of the bass&drum tracks. Do you know if there'll be a reissue for Individual?

And btw, I was wandering when the goddamn second Control Denied will be released!

Bassbait · July 23rd, 2011, 03:42 AM

@Allfader...

There WILL be a re-issue for Individual Thought Patterns. They are re-issuing every Death release. They already did Human and Sound of Perseverance, and they claim ITP is next and going to be out by around September. I think the production was much better on that album, so they probably won't remix it.

Charlie E. · July 23rd, 2011, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Allfader

The best part of the reissue is the inclusion of the bass&drum tracks. Do you know if there'll be a reissue for Individual?

Hmmm? The CD I got only had instrumental tracks. Not bass and drum tracks. I was really hoping to get those. A friend of mine showed me them years ago but refused to copy it to me out of respect to Steve.

Living_Monstrosity · July 25th, 2011, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie E.

Hmmm? The CD I got only had instrumental tracks. Not bass and drum tracks. I was really hoping to get those. A friend of mine showed me them years ago but refused to copy it to me out of respect to Steve.

Bass and drum tracks came with the 3-disc version, I believe.

Charlie E. · July 26th, 2011, 05:04 PM

Ah bummer. Mine is just 2 discs. Didn't know there was one with 3.

lokikallas · July 26th, 2011, 09:15 PM

I think that the Burns mixes were typically pretty slim on the bass. Or rather the guitars were so scooped and compressed, the bass had a hard time shining through. I would imagine the conversation with chuck was a big reason why the bass was so prominent on Individual TP. Somebody must have told Scott where the upper mid knobs were on the board. As far as the gathering, I totally disagree. I think it is mixed very well. It isn't the SDG band, but rather the gathering of some of the greatest metal musicians ever. The bass is never hard to hear, and is boosted when there is a cool little busy bass lick. Testament has always had more of an in the pocket bass style, even though I think greg is an awesome bass player with great lines. Playing or mixing sadus style bass in testament is like lombardo playing slayer style drums in testament. Close, but distinctly different.

Allfader · August 3rd, 2011, 11:21 AM

Yup, I've got the 3 disc version. Together as one is just incredible now. I just listen the reissue, since the original had too much guitar for my taste.

If ITP will be reissued, I hope it comes with drum and bass tracks too, but I honestly think that the guitars should be a little higher, the drums fuller and the vocals a little lower in the mix to get something more balanced. TSOP is probably the best mixed Death album ever.

Steve's work in Testament's The Gathering was very good and pretty audible to my ears. The live basslines - I think it's Dynamo 2003 or something - were more killer IMO tho.

I really hope that the second Control Denied album will be released soon. I wonder if Steve already recorded his basslines and how finished the album is at this point.

AnTz0r · October 25th, 2011, 12:23 AM

ITP release is out today

Son of Magni · March 26th, 2012, 01:47 PM

Hey guys, I just thought I'd mention that the Human 3-disk set is only available directly from relapse.com. Also they say they only made 2000 of them but I was able to order one a few minutes ago.

CTE · March 28th, 2012, 04:59 PM

Thanks for the tip on the 3-disc version of Human. I picked up the two-disc one, and I didn't realize there was another version. The reissue definitely sounds better, but the bass still isn't nearly as loud as it could be.

As for the original mix of Human, I guess I just always wrote that off as standard operating procedure for bass on a metal album in the late 80's/early 90's - i.e. you knew going in that you were never going to hear it

. Having Steve play on it always struck me as overkill for that reason. Sort of like getting Eddie Van Halen to play the guitar solo in We Bite by the Misfits (which, for those of you not familiar with the tune, is one note).

Bassbait · March 28th, 2012, 09:27 PM

Metallica, Megadeth, Death (first three albums), Atheist, Exhorder, Pantera, Iron Maiden, King Diamond, Sadus... these are all bands who released albums before Human where the bass was clearly audible. You may have written it off as standard during the time, but if you actually look at the majority of albums at the time, it's not the case. Steve was totally buried in Human, unfairly so.

CTE · March 29th, 2012, 12:13 PM

Yeah, I realize there are (thankfully) tons of exceptions, but the bass did get squeezed out on a lot of harder/faster records bitd. Add cassettes into the mix (the format many of us were, of course, buying records on) and I think it's fair to say that the bass didn't pop on a lot of OG thrash/death metal records. I mean, the first time I heard this record, I definitely heard just enough of the bass to think "why isn't this louder in the mix?," but unfortunately, I didn't think it was that extreme of an example compared to other things released at the time. I agree it's insane that Steve wasn't louder though, in case I didn't make that clear.

CTE · May 3rd, 2012, 01:03 PM

I stumbled across this the other night and thought it was interesting. It's a (relatively) recent interview with Scott Burns (you all probably know, but in case any new dudes see this, he is the Florida recording engineer who worked at Morrisound studio and ended up recording a lot of famous late 80's - early/mid 90's death metal records, including Death "Human"). Right in the middle of the interview, when he was asked to recount stories, regrets, etc., he says "Steve Digorgio (sic) - if I could remix one album it would be “Human” so we could bring up your bass." I don't think he had anything to do with the reissue, but I wonder if he has heard it, and if so, what he thinks?

http://www.voicesfromthedarkside.de/...RNS--7090.html

Nadlee · July 17th, 2012, 05:21 PM

Even with burried bass tracks..... the audible bass licks changed my whole bass aproach. BTW if i could get ahold of the Sean + SDG cuts that would probably change my life again! That album sucked alot of bass player in. So dont discredit it too much.

December 14th, 2006, 10:46 PM	#26 (permalink)
Frank the tank Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Lanford, IL Posts: 186	and a bad lemmy? wtf? man what kind of beers were you drinkin ? sure made me laugh my ass off though __________________ - old school bassist -

July 19th, 2011, 10:32 PM	#35 (permalink)
Bassbait Not actually a Bassist. Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 42	In response to Steve's semi-rant - Well, I don't know what happened, and frankly, I wasn't alive yet. But I have a feeling it wasn't really anybody's fault. I imagine each musician to think in their own mindset, with small amounts of empathy for other instruments. When you're dealing with mixing things, it becomes difficult to not make anything too loud or too quiet. And it's worsened when there's not a full party there to discuss it. I am working on a demo right now with my band (check some remnants of the final product on our facebook page, heh heh), and I'm afraid that the bass and drum levels are too loud. So we're going to bump the guitar higher. But then the drums and bass will be too quiet. I'm a guitarist, but I play bass and drums too, and I love all instruments and their application throughout the history of metal, but when it's the mind of two guitarists, a drummer, and a producer, the bass is most likely going to suffer the biggest downfall on the record. Fantastic playing, crappy production. I honestly have trouble listening to the original mix of Human because of the lack of significant bass. But I don't think it's because they hated the tracks or anything, I think it's simply because mixing an album needs multiple minds who think differently but have the same vision in mind, and with Human, I can't say for sure if that was the case, and I also can't say for sure if they intended the bass to be practically inaudible. But I just don't think any of the guys mixing it were very "bass conscious", as it seems that Chuck's bassists all seem relatively tame when it's not good ol' Steve behind the bass. __________________ Check out my band here - http://dystopianofficial.bandcamp.co...clysmic-origin Feel free to tell us what you think here - https://www.facebook.com/DystopianOfficial

July 20th, 2011, 12:44 AM	#36 (permalink)
AnTz0r Crimson King Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,929	No. Thats why you have an engineer / producer, to make sure these kind of issues are fixed and product the musicians against themselves sometimes. __________________

July 21st, 2011, 09:11 AM	#37 (permalink)
Allfader Kvelding Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Near Mountains Posts: 1,748	So Steve, what do you think about the new remix/remaster? Now the bass is decently audible (altought it's still hard to hear every note) and the whole sound is better. The best part of the reissue is the inclusion of the bass&drum tracks. Do you know if there'll be a reissue for Individual? And btw, I was wandering when the goddamn second Control Denied will be released! __________________ «Sola gaar bak Aase ned Skuggan' bli saa lange Natte kjem snart atteved Teke meg i Fange» Forestfather in Bandcamp - Listen the new Forestfather MCD 'Hereafter'! Atmospheric post/black metal Forestfather in Facebook Vahşet in ReverbNation - Death metal

July 23rd, 2011, 03:42 AM	#38 (permalink)
Bassbait Not actually a Bassist. Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 42	@Allfader... There WILL be a re-issue for Individual Thought Patterns. They are re-issuing every Death release. They already did Human and Sound of Perseverance, and they claim ITP is next and going to be out by around September. I think the production was much better on that album, so they probably won't remix it. __________________ Check out my band here - http://dystopianofficial.bandcamp.co...clysmic-origin Feel free to tell us what you think here - https://www.facebook.com/DystopianOfficial

December 20th, 2006, 10:03 PM	#27 (permalink)
Miguel Suerte Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 85	The album sounds great for the standard reel-to-reel recording but I dunno why Morrisound studios couldn't get digital in '91. It was expensive granted, but I knew someone back then (late '90) who had a full digital ADAT setup. He claimed few bands wanted into it because the tapes were so expensive. And what about the "Gathering"? The bass comes in and cuts out and some times it is completely inaudible.

January 31st, 2007, 05:48 AM	#32 (permalink)
Satanstoenail Stack of fuck shit Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bogans Posts: 7,523	I need to frequent this section more often, very interesting reading. Cheers Steve.

June 27th, 2007, 07:29 AM	#33 (permalink)
paradigm_shift Junior Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 8	Any chance of getting a listen to that tape? Does anyone know where it can be found for download? I really am most interested.As I'm sure are the majority here...

July 26th, 2011, 05:04 PM	#41 (permalink)
Charlie E. Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 1,061	Ah bummer. Mine is just 2 discs. Didn't know there was one with 3. __________________ Vinland Media Mendacity

July 26th, 2011, 09:15 PM	#42 (permalink)
lokikallas Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 1	I think that the Burns mixes were typically pretty slim on the bass. Or rather the guitars were so scooped and compressed, the bass had a hard time shining through. I would imagine the conversation with chuck was a big reason why the bass was so prominent on Individual TP. Somebody must have told Scott where the upper mid knobs were on the board. As far as the gathering, I totally disagree. I think it is mixed very well. It isn't the SDG band, but rather the gathering of some of the greatest metal musicians ever. The bass is never hard to hear, and is boosted when there is a cool little busy bass lick. Testament has always had more of an in the pocket bass style, even though I think greg is an awesome bass player with great lines. Playing or mixing sadus style bass in testament is like lombardo playing slayer style drums in testament. Close, but distinctly different.

August 3rd, 2011, 11:21 AM	#43 (permalink)
Allfader Kvelding Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Near Mountains Posts: 1,748	Yup, I've got the 3 disc version. Together as one is just incredible now. I just listen the reissue, since the original had too much guitar for my taste. If ITP will be reissued, I hope it comes with drum and bass tracks too, but I honestly think that the guitars should be a little higher, the drums fuller and the vocals a little lower in the mix to get something more balanced. TSOP is probably the best mixed Death album ever. Steve's work in Testament's The Gathering was very good and pretty audible to my ears. The live basslines - I think it's Dynamo 2003 or something - were more killer IMO tho. I really hope that the second Control Denied album will be released soon. I wonder if Steve already recorded his basslines and how finished the album is at this point. __________________ «Sola gaar bak Aase ned Skuggan' bli saa lange Natte kjem snart atteved Teke meg i Fange» Forestfather in Bandcamp - Listen the new Forestfather MCD 'Hereafter'! Atmospheric post/black metal Forestfather in Facebook Vahşet in ReverbNation - Death metal

October 25th, 2011, 12:23 AM	#44 (permalink)
AnTz0r Crimson King Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,929	ITP release is out today __________________

March 26th, 2012, 01:47 PM	#45 (permalink)
Son of Magni ThorBass Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 84	Hey guys, I just thought I'd mention that the Human 3-disk set is only available directly from relapse.com. Also they say they only made 2000 of them but I was able to order one a few minutes ago.

March 28th, 2012, 04:59 PM	#46 (permalink)
CTE Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 4	Thanks for the tip on the 3-disc version of Human. I picked up the two-disc one, and I didn't realize there was another version. The reissue definitely sounds better, but the bass still isn't nearly as loud as it could be. As for the original mix of Human, I guess I just always wrote that off as standard operating procedure for bass on a metal album in the late 80's/early 90's - i.e. you knew going in that you were never going to hear it . Having Steve play on it always struck me as overkill for that reason. Sort of like getting Eddie Van Halen to play the guitar solo in We Bite by the Misfits (which, for those of you not familiar with the tune, is one note).

March 28th, 2012, 09:27 PM	#47 (permalink)
Bassbait Not actually a Bassist. Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 42	Metallica, Megadeth, Death (first three albums), Atheist, Exhorder, Pantera, Iron Maiden, King Diamond, Sadus... these are all bands who released albums before Human where the bass was clearly audible. You may have written it off as standard during the time, but if you actually look at the majority of albums at the time, it's not the case. Steve was totally buried in Human, unfairly so. __________________ Check out my band here - http://dystopianofficial.bandcamp.co...clysmic-origin Feel free to tell us what you think here - https://www.facebook.com/DystopianOfficial

March 29th, 2012, 12:13 PM	#48 (permalink)
CTE Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 4	Yeah, I realize there are (thankfully) tons of exceptions, but the bass did get squeezed out on a lot of harder/faster records bitd. Add cassettes into the mix (the format many of us were, of course, buying records on) and I think it's fair to say that the bass didn't pop on a lot of OG thrash/death metal records. I mean, the first time I heard this record, I definitely heard just enough of the bass to think "why isn't this louder in the mix?," but unfortunately, I didn't think it was that extreme of an example compared to other things released at the time. I agree it's insane that Steve wasn't louder though, in case I didn't make that clear.

May 3rd, 2012, 01:03 PM	#49 (permalink)
CTE Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 4	I stumbled across this the other night and thought it was interesting. It's a (relatively) recent interview with Scott Burns (you all probably know, but in case any new dudes see this, he is the Florida recording engineer who worked at Morrisound studio and ended up recording a lot of famous late 80's - early/mid 90's death metal records, including Death "Human"). Right in the middle of the interview, when he was asked to recount stories, regrets, etc., he says "Steve Digorgio (sic) - if I could remix one album it would be “Human” so we could bring up your bass." I don't think he had anything to do with the reissue, but I wonder if he has heard it, and if so, what he thinks? http://www.voicesfromthedarkside.de/...RNS--7090.html

July 17th, 2012, 05:21 PM	#50 (permalink)
Nadlee Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 1	Even with burried bass tracks..... the audible bass licks changed my whole bass aproach. BTW if i could get ahold of the Sean + SDG cuts that would probably change my life again! That album sucked alot of bass player in. So dont discredit it too much.