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Old November 16th, 2003, 07:13 AM   #1 (permalink)
batmura
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Is the SC singer a big James Labrie fan?

I just got the album and have been listening to it. I quite like it. I think the new singer sounds cool, like a younger James Labrie. I may be the only one who thinks so, but he definitely reminds me of Awake-era Labrie. Andre lists Ray Alder, Geoff Tate, Buddy Lackey, Tim Hutton, Bruce Dickinson as his influences. No Labrie. I personally don't think his singing is mid-range like Bruce's. That was more prevalant in the previous singer's (Sascha?) delivery in my opinion. He sounded like a cross between Dickinson and Freddie Mercury.

The Alder and Tate comparisons on the other hand make sense. But most of all I hear Labrie in his voice. It may be purely coincidental though, but it's cool. I might have to check out his previous band Imperium. I think I saw the album somewhere at a friend's place. He has a great voice, either way.

Anyone else hear what I'm saying?
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Old November 16th, 2003, 08:33 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mezarkabul
I just got the album and have been listening to it. I quite like it. I think the new singer sounds cool, like a younger James Labrie. I may be the only one who thinks so, but he definitely reminds me of Awake-era Labrie. Andre lists Ray Alder, Geoff Tate, Buddy Lackey, Tim Hutton, Bruce Dickinson as his influences. No Labrie. I personally don't think his singing is mid-range like Bruce's. That was more prevalant in the previous singer's (Sascha?) delivery in my opinion. He sounded like a cross between Dickinson and Freddie Mercury.

The Alder and Tate comparisons on the other hand make sense. But most of all I hear Labrie in his voice. It may be purely coincidental though, but it's cool. I might have to check out his previous band Imperium. I think I saw the album somewhere at a friend's place. He has a great voice, either way.

Anyone else hear what I'm saying?
If you ask me if I'm a fan of LaBrie, I must say yes. I think he has one hell of a voice and can do certain things with his voice other singers cannot, but as far as influences go, I must say I'm more influenced by singers like Ray Alder, Geoff Tate and Buddy Lackey. It's the softer parts of LaBrie's singing I don't like as much compared to the other singers I mentioned, especially the breathy stuff. I like a more mysterious sound in the softer parts, but otherwise I think he's great!

I think most of the LaBrie comparison comes from a combination of music and voice, because no one ever mentioned me sounding like LaBrie in one of my former bands, but it's cool, thnx....
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Old November 16th, 2003, 11:45 AM   #3 (permalink)
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@André
You do sound a bit like Labrie, especially the phrasing and the louder parts. But I like your voice better. The softer parts you sing are more sensitive (without the breathing). And I think Labrie screams too much. Did you take singing lessons btw? Performing your music live is going to be very demanding.
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Old November 16th, 2003, 12:08 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by keeper of the flame
@André
You do sound a bit like Labrie, especially the phrasing and the louder parts. But I like your voice better. The softer parts you sing are more sensitive (without the breathing). And I think Labrie screams too much. Did you take singing lessons btw? Performing your music live is going to be very demanding.
Phrasing is very difficult at certain points. When reaching for certain notes, some words become very difficult to pronounce because of the technique used, so you start to lose some articulation for the sake of sounding good. I start to realize that this could be the biggest part of the comparison, although Alder and Tate suffer from the same thing, it just comes with the territory.

I sang in church when I was a kid, always loved singing, but never had any real singing lessons, along the way I just got some pointers and things I learned and picked up the hard way. Most of my singing just comes naturally.

Performing with Sun caged is ALWAYS very demanding for all of us.
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Old November 17th, 2003, 05:27 AM   #5 (permalink)
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One thing I noticed about LaBrie is that he can scream those high notes very easy in the studio but when on stage for 4 months and doing gigs 5 out of seven day's this becomes a problem. Most venues are badly aired, lot's of people smoking during concerts.

Besides, after 4 or 5 years songs with high screams in them will surly become much harder to sing. What do you do than? Take them of the setlist? This might be a problems when they are a crowd favorite.

This started me thinking. Although it might be tempting to scream your head off in the studio just because you can, how smart is it to think ahead at such a moment?

Must a professional singer plan for the conditions I described above? Tone it down a little so you know you can meet the demands of the vocal line even in bad live conditions? Would it be not more spectacular when you could sing a vocal line higher live than in the studio because the conditions are good at that moment?

I really don't know. You might run the risk of becoming a flat sounding singer. What do you think?
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Old November 17th, 2003, 06:05 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawk
One thing I noticed about LaBrie is that he can scream those high notes very easy in the studio but when on stage for 4 months and doing gigs 5 out of seven day's this becomes a problem. Most venues are badly aired, lot's of people smoking during concerts.

Besides, after 4 or 5 years songs with high screams in them will surly become much harder to sing. What do you do than? Take them of the setlist? This might be a problems when they are a crowd favorite.

This started me thinking. Although it might be tempting to scream your head off in the studio just because you can, how smart is it to think ahead at such a moment?

Must a professional singer plan for the conditions I described above? Tone it down a little so you know you can meet the demands of the vocal line even in bad live conditions? Would it be not more spectacular when you could sing a vocal line higher live than in the studio because the conditions are good at that moment?

I really don't know. You might run the risk of becoming a flat sounding singer. What do you think?
Hey Hawk,
You have a point there.
Every singer thinks about that (or should think about it), problem is where should you draw the line, because on some bad days you could lose as much as 2-3 notes, another day the low ones, should one consider this when recording? I think not, to a certain extend. I only record stuff that I can normally do in one take, I think it is to risky to do things live that in the studio took you 20 or 30 takes.
Sometimes I sing things higher in a live environment and get remarks like "why don't you sing the normal line? Have you forgotten it? I like the normal singing-lines better". So not everybody is impressed by the high notes.
One thing I also discovered when singing difficult or high stuff, is that it is almost mendatory for the listener to know the songs or know the CD to appreciate every bend or highnote, otherwise a lot of those things go unnoticed.

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Old November 18th, 2003, 11:04 AM   #7 (permalink)
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I see thanks for sharing your thoughts about this.
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Old November 18th, 2003, 04:37 PM   #8 (permalink)
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talking about the pointers you were given, would you care to talk about them a little?
I've begun training myself a month ago or so, but I dont know if I'm on the good way to learn to reach higher notes. I trained my breathing, but appart from that I dont know where I really am... any advice?
thanks
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Old November 19th, 2003, 01:18 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam027
talking about the pointers you were given, would you care to talk about them a little?
I've begun training myself a month ago or so, but I dont know if I'm on the good way to learn to reach higher notes. I trained my breathing, but appart from that I dont know where I really am... any advice?
thanks
O.K. Sam, just a couple of pointers:
1. Get enough sleep, at least 8-9 hours of it, very important. (yes, the singer is the most boring guy in the band)

2. Don't speak to much before and after a concert, especially when the room is noisy and you can't hear the exact volume you use. (...and again he is the most boring guy in the band)

3. When warming up, don't try to reach your highest notes, just keep it nice and low.

4. Keep in shape, that means good food, sports, no smoking and not too much drinking.

5. Get supplements, especially zinc, very good for the vocalcords.

6. Don't overdo when singing live, you need to reach the end of a concert in perfect condition and it's very easy to get carried away.

7. sometimes I eat an apple to get my voice started before a concert or recording. Don't ask me why this helpes, it just helpes, try it!

Higher notes is not something you can learn really, with a lot of exercise you may gain a note, but mostly it is something you are born with. Technique is the one thing you can learn.

Hope this helpes you in any way.

grtz, Andre

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Old November 19th, 2003, 01:44 PM   #10 (permalink)
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You say that "with a lot of exercise you may gain a note, but mostly it is something you are born with."
This kind of scares me cos' I'm not really high unless I use my head voice to sing along songs like "Sedation" for example, but then I sound like a freaked out cat! My question is how do you gain higher notes, just by trying to sing higher using chest voice?
thanks
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Old November 19th, 2003, 03:29 PM   #11 (permalink)
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It takes years of careful breeding to obtain a species that can reach high notes. Unfortunately this feature doesn't run in my family. I have a very small range. So I envy singers like André. It's strange how some males have vocal cords that can produce such a wide range. You must feel very lucky André. At what age did you discover this? And how did it feel?
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Old November 20th, 2003, 01:34 AM   #12 (permalink)
cagedvoice
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam027
You say that "with a lot of exercise you may gain a note, but mostly it is something you are born with."
This kind of scares me cos' I'm not really high unless I use my head voice to sing along songs like "Sedation" for example, but then I sound like a freaked out cat! My question is how do you gain higher notes, just by trying to sing higher using chest voice?
thanks
First of all you have to be shure you use the proper techniques, after that it all comes down to natural range and not be afraid to sing out loud. This may sound strange, but if you are "afraid" to sing, then you won't use your full potential. Maybe this is the problem?
I don't know for sure until I hear you sing.
The first and biggest obstacle is in your mind, you feel like you can't go any higher and automatically go to head voice. Maybe you're not at the end of your range, but you seem to think so, so you make the switch to head voice. For me it's very difficult to explain how I sing those high notes, it would be easier to explain in real life, then I could show you.

I will try:
First of all the breathing is very important, when you breath in and you see your shoulders going up, then you're using the wrong breathing technique, always let your belly go out when you breath, not your chest.
Now just use your "middenrif" (sorry I don't know the proper english word) as a muscle to push the air through your mouth. You can do this in a very controlled manner.
Other thing is that you don't always need lots of air or screaming your head of when singing high, most of the volume should come from vibrations in the head and chest. don't scream! Just let your body do the work like a huge sound- or resonance box.
After a while you'll be suprised about how much higher you could sing when using the proper technique.
It's all in your head, free your mind!! (like those matrix phrases)

What may be best for you is to get some real life singing lessons and explain to them what you want to do with your voice.

grtz, Andre
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Old November 20th, 2003, 01:43 AM   #13 (permalink)
cagedvoice
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keeper of the flame
It takes years of careful breeding to obtain a species that can reach high notes. Unfortunately this feature doesn't run in my family. I have a very small range. So I envy singers like André. It's strange how some males have vocal cords that can produce such a wide range. You must feel very lucky André. At what age did you discover this? And how did it feel?
How did I feel? well, that's a pretty strange story. I discovered on a very young age I could sing high, problem was that on that age every boy wants to be like his father and my father was a singer in a choir and had this very deep booming voice. So I always ignored those high notes and tried to sing as low as I could.
After my voice broke I was finally able to sing real low (yes, I can also sing real low, like crashtestdummies low)
I forgot all about singing high until I discovered bruce dickinson, he made me see the light, that's why he is one of my influences. After that I got into rockmusic (read metal ) and started to sing those high passages and rediscovered my voice. soon after I sang in coverbands, etc, etc...
Maybe singing low at an early age really opened up my lower range, I don't know. To me singing high feels like something everybody can do, it just feels natural.

That's about my lifestory.

grtz, Andre
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Old November 20th, 2003, 02:48 AM   #14 (permalink)
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must say I'm more influenced by singers like Ray Alder, Geoff Tate and Buddy Lackey.
Has John Arch been an influence too? I couldn't help noticing similarities. (Also a lot of differences tho)
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Old November 20th, 2003, 03:43 AM   #15 (permalink)
cagedvoice
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Originally Posted by SanderThomas
Has John Arch been an influence too? I couldn't help noticing similarities. (Also a lot of differences tho)
Good guess!
John Arch is great, has one of the widest ranges I came accross and very mysterious lines. A shame he hasn't sung for many years. The new CD is great though! I just wish he would do some concerts, he could sing the 2 songs from his CD and some old stuff from Fates Warning, that would be a real treat!

grtz, Andre
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Old November 20th, 2003, 07:41 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Yes same thoughts here I really like the lines, that's progressive singing
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Old November 20th, 2003, 07:52 AM   #17 (permalink)
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John Arch just rules
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Old November 20th, 2003, 04:09 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cagedvoice
Good guess! [img]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/img]
John Arch is great, has one of the widest ranges I came accross and very mysterious lines. A shame he hasn't sung for many years. The new CD is great though! I just wish he would do some concerts, he could sing the 2 songs from his CD and some old stuff from Fates Warning, that would be a real treat!

grtz, Andre
Then I am happy to give you some news. A few months ago I was present at a chat with JA. He has been on of my favorite singers since 1986. I love his vocal lines and his lyrics. AtG is one of my all time favorite albums.

Anyway, at this chat he told us that he would record a full album and that it was very possible that he would tour Europe in 2004. He said that he felt he owned his European fans something after leaving FW so abruptly.

When asked if you would do songs from his FW day's he replied: "sure"
So there you have it. I will look around for a transscript of this chat.
And edit/paste it into this message.

:edit:

Redelijk

I overlooked your message. Damn! He must have changed his mind.
What did they say ? That would not play in 2003 or never again ?

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Old November 22nd, 2003, 04:19 AM   #19 (permalink)
Sam027
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cagedvoice
First of all you have to be shure you use the proper techniques, after that it all comes down to natural range and not be afraid to sing out loud. This may sound strange, but if you are "afraid" to sing, then you won't use your full potential. Maybe this is the problem?
I don't know for sure until I hear you sing.
The first and biggest obstacle is in your mind, you feel like you can't go any higher and automatically go to head voice. Maybe you're not at the end of your range, but you seem to think so, so you make the switch to head voice. For me it's very difficult to explain how I sing those high notes, it would be easier to explain in real life, then I could show you.

I will try:
First of all the breathing is very important, when you breath in and you see your shoulders going up, then you're using the wrong breathing technique, always let your belly go out when you breath, not your chest.
Now just use your "middenrif" (sorry I don't know the proper english word) as a muscle to push the air through your mouth. You can do this in a very controlled manner.
Other thing is that you don't always need lots of air or screaming your head of when singing high, most of the volume should come from vibrations in the head and chest. don't scream! Just let your body do the work like a huge sound- or resonance box.
After a while you'll be suprised about how much higher you could sing when using the proper technique.
It's all in your head, free your mind!! (like those matrix phrases)

What may be best for you is to get some real life singing lessons and explain to them what you want to do with your voice.

grtz, Andre
after reading you, at least one thing good: I breath correctly!
I dont really get the "middenrif" though? Is it in the way you control the air in the belly or?
And yeah, I already plan to look for a singing school next week
thanks again
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Old December 10th, 2003, 06:58 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I belive he is refering to what as know in english as your diaphragm... no not the female condom! it's a large muscle near your stomach which is also responsible for controling breathing If I'm not mistaken... ah! here we go!

di·a·phragm (noun)
1) A muscular membranous partition separating the abdominal and thoracic cavities and functioning in respiration. Also called midriff. <---!

2) A membranous part that divides or separates.

3) A thin disk, especially in a microphone or telephone receiver, that vibrates in response to sound waves to produce electric signals, or that vibrates in response to electric signals to produce sound waves.

4) A contraceptive device consisting of a thin flexible disk, usually made of rubber, that is designed to cover the uterine cervix to prevent the entry of sperm during sexual intercourse. (YIKES! not that one!)

5) A disk having a fixed or variable opening used to restrict the amount of light traversing a lens or optical system.
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Old December 11th, 2003, 12:35 AM   #21 (permalink)
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I am not a vocalist, so i have no real force in a conversation like this, but i personally enjoy listening to vocalist who have an interesting inflection to their vocal range. One singer in particular is Warrel Dane, vocalist for Nevermore (yes i love the band). It was initially hard for me to get into the band because i did not have a full sampling of their materials and i did not have the appreciation i should have had for his voice. Yet after attending a showing of "Le Miserables" on Broadway i realized that his inflection was amazing - he exhibits many characteristics of a broadway singer, yet he is the vocalist for a metal group! I think that it really comes down to presence, as Dane exudes an awesome amount of power by way of his voice. That's just my two cents - although there are many other vocalists i appreciate
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Old December 19th, 2003, 09:07 PM   #22 (permalink)
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This was a very interesting discussion. Thanks for all the insight, Andre. I love your vocals on the Sun Caged album!
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Old December 25th, 2003, 05:31 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Just read through this discussion..

I don't know the band, I don't know anything about anything in this forum, really, but I can't help but to feel an awesome amount of respect for you, Andre.. Actually having a good social relation to your listeners, and even giving advice on technique and such.. That's the kind of frontman I want to be myself, although I don't really sing that well, and mostly stick to guitar stuff..

Keep it up.. You rock.
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Old December 28th, 2003, 08:14 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Thnx for that nice compliment ProgR˙che...
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