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Old December 17th, 2011, 10:04 AM   #26 (permalink)
Sauna
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Originally Posted by Detective Clarence Beauregard View Post
It just doesn't have a lot of feeling or emotion to me. The Arabic tonalities sound bad ass and work very well in heavy stuff (in my opinion), but not so well in others.
Of course it works in other stuff. Middle-Eastern folk music was around before the electric guitar, you know. What a weird opinion that one is.

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Stupid gimmick to base your sound on something like that imo. I avoid bands that sound samey throughout their discography for a reason.
Sounding Middle-Eastern doesn't mean sounding samey all the time. If it's a gimmick, then so is everything else.

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Originally Posted by The Stormbringer View Post
Prog bands playing in oriental-sounding scales has become one of the clichés of that genre to me. Unlike natural minor or pentatonic, it's a rather special sounding tonality to our western ears and thus we get oversaturated with it easily, I think.
Yes.

Edit: Opening a new page with a post that's completely off-topic is awesome, by the way.

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Old December 17th, 2011, 12:43 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by The Stormbringer View Post
Prog bands playing in oriental-sounding scales has become one of the clichés of that genre to me. Unlike natural minor or pentatonic, it's a rather special sounding tonality to our western ears and thus we get oversaturated with it easily, I think.
It's not simply a matter of "sounding oriental" or "playing in E minor" etc. (as the Detective pointed out, Communion is written in that key and it's an amazing song). Anything that is done repetitively and with no real interesting musical substance quickly becomes lame. You wouldn't believe the amount of repetitive and lame crap withing the realm of Arabic music. It's not just your (occidental) ears. (I'm from the same country as Myrath btw)

Interestingly, as far as metal/prog music is concerned, I find westerners do oriental stuff better in terms of how they blend/incorporate it or how they use it to invoke a particular theme/setting. Probably because they don't insist so much on that one particular sound throughout their songs for the hell of it and when they do it, they do it very well. A couple examples:



not to mention Egypt by Symphony X and others.

The problem with native bands like Myrath is that they're trying too hard to sound like that just for the sake of being unique/exotic, trying to sell that image. (I'm watching a recent video clip by them and the vocalist guy is dressed like Prince of Persia, lol wtf)

Music has no nationality imo, at least progressive music.

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Old December 17th, 2011, 03:24 PM   #28 (permalink)
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A lot of bands set out to create something so over-the-top and as complex as possible, but 9 times out of 10 fail because it sounds very shallow. Like somebody else said, they just don't understand what being progressive is.
I can find more "complexity" and depth in Anathema's Are You There? than in a DT instrumental wank-fest.

For reference:


Or how about something more traditionally prog, like this:


The way the band feels and plays the odd time sigs, melodies, tones, etc... it's just in another league, imo. The use of true dynamics, and human-like execution... Damn, I love this album. lol.

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Old December 18th, 2011, 06:19 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Same here. Like Dream Theater, their music just doesn't do anything to me no matter how flashy they try to sound. I also don't like how they try too hard to sound Arabic/Tunisian. Just another band with decent technical abilities but lack of understanding of what true progressiveness is all about, imo.
Are you trolling? You do know that Myrath is from Tunisia right?
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Old December 18th, 2011, 02:02 PM   #30 (permalink)
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^

Read my other post.
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Old December 18th, 2011, 05:21 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by _Gentleman of_the Snow_ View Post
A lot of bands set out to create something so over-the-top and as complex as possible, but 9 times out of 10 fail because it sounds very shallow. Like somebody else said, they just don't understand what being progressive is.
I can find more "complexity" and depth in Anathema's Are You There? than in a DT instrumental wank-fest.

For reference:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSdTjKfOlqA

Or how about something more traditionally prog, like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGfIM...eature=related

The way the band feels and plays the odd time sigs, melodies, tones, etc... it's just in another league, imo. The use of true dynamics, and human-like execution... Damn, I love this album. lol.
I approve of this post.
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Old December 19th, 2011, 06:27 PM   #32 (permalink)
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what a shit year.

my "10" if they could even be considered that... none of these albums would normally make a top list for me.

-Insomnium: One For Sorrow
-Turisas: Stand Up and Fight
-Steven Wilson: Grace for Drowning
-RHCP: I'm With You
-Samuel Yirga: Hagere (okay, just an EP, but this one deserves to be on a 'best' list)
-White Willow: Terminal Twilight
-Foo Fighters: Wasting Light
-Amaranthe: Amaranthe (guilty pleasure. bad, but catchy?)
-Ulver: War of the Roses
-Lunatic Soul: Impressions

Shockingly there was an Opeth album this year and it did not make the top 10 even with this dismal offering. Same @PoS, Arena, Amorphis, Dredg...

I GUESS I could give Moonsorrow a thumbs up considering my edits to their release. (Remove snowboot crunching ambience from most even-numbered tracks). Solid band.

Also, fuck Mastadon lately.
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Old December 19th, 2011, 06:35 PM   #33 (permalink)
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I approve of this post.
Are You There?, especially the Hindsight recording, is
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Old December 19th, 2011, 09:31 PM   #34 (permalink)
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I'm curious about Moonsorrow. I heard one of their songs and I really liked it, but I can't remember the name. What would be a good album to start with? Or should I just not bother?
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Old December 19th, 2011, 09:43 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Leprous' new cd Bilateral DOES kick ass.....those guys are great live, too!
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Old December 20th, 2011, 12:09 AM   #36 (permalink)
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what a shit year.

my "10" if they could even be considered that... none of these albums would normally make a top list for me.

-Insomnium: One For Sorrow
-Turisas: Stand Up and Fight
-Steven Wilson: Grace for Drowning
-RHCP: I'm With You
-Samuel Yirga: Hagere (okay, just an EP, but this one deserves to be on a 'best' list)
-White Willow: Terminal Twilight
-Foo Fighters: Wasting Light
-Amaranthe: Amaranthe (guilty pleasure. bad, but catchy?)
-Ulver: War of the Roses
-Lunatic Soul: Impressions

Shockingly there was an Opeth album this year and it did not make the top 10 even with this dismal offering. Same @PoS, Arena, Amorphis, Dredg...

I GUESS I could give Moonsorrow a thumbs up considering my edits to their release. (Remove snowboot crunching ambience from most even-numbered tracks). Solid band.

Also, fuck Mastadon lately.

I could see why that Amaranthe album could be a guilty pleasure; however, to put it on your list over Opeth, PoS, and Amorphis is laughable. You may find the new albums of these bands you like lackluster, but to put a "guilty pleasure" band on the list over them is quite sad. If Amaranthe makes your list over those then maybe you shouldn't feel guilty about liking it? I know if I used the phrase "bad, but catchy" to describe an album it would not be in my top 10 list...

Oh, and I thought I remembered you liking the Cynthesis album but I guess I am remembering wrong. Were you disappointed in that one too?
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Old December 20th, 2011, 12:54 AM   #37 (permalink)
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Lol, I had to check that Amaranthe band. It sounds like the Abba of metal or something. Commercial metal sound done to perfection?
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Old December 20th, 2011, 05:30 AM   #38 (permalink)
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I'm curious about Moonsorrow. I heard one of their songs and I really liked it, but I can't remember the name. What would be a good album to start with? Or should I just not bother?
Hävitetty is probably my favourite Moonsorrow album, but I would recommend starting with Verisäkeet, I think it might have just a bit more immediate appeal. Doesn't really matter though, they're both so good it's almost painful.

You shouldn't bother if you have a problem with long songs, though.

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Old December 20th, 2011, 11:43 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Hävitetty is probably my favourite Moonsorrow album, but I would recommend starting with Verisäkeet, I think it might have just a bit more immediate appeal. Doesn't really matter though, they're both so good it's almost painful.

You shouldn't bother if you have a problem with long songs, though.
Agreed with these recommendations. Moonsorrow is great.

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Lol, I had to check that Amaranthe band. It sounds like the Abba of metal or something. Commercial metal sound done to perfection?
Yeah.

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Originally Posted by symphonyXjapan View Post
I could see why that Amaranthe album could be a guilty pleasure; however, to put it on your list over Opeth, PoS, and Amorphis is laughable. You may find the new albums of these bands you like lackluster, but to put a "guilty pleasure" band on the list over them is quite sad. If Amaranthe makes your list over those then maybe you shouldn't feel guilty about liking it? I know if I used the phrase "bad, but catchy" to describe an album it would not be in my top 10 list...

Oh, and I thought I remembered you liking the Cynthesis album but I guess I am remembering wrong. Were you disappointed in that one too?
Oh, don't get butthurt. Opeth, PoS, and Amorphis disappointed. Those bands are capable of so much more that to put out a forgettable disc is inexcusable. Hopefully their next will be better. Unlike some people here, I don't blindly worship bands. Even my favorite bands have proven they are capable of lackluster releases and I'm not too insecure or afraid or whatever mechanism governs that sort of reaction to admit it and move on.

I did preface my "list" by saying that the year was terrible and I couldn't even call it a top 10. Why should I include a "brand name" band like Opeth, for example, only because of who they are? If their album didn't hit the radar hard enough then it doesn't deserve to stay there.

Re Cynthesis: Yes, I liked it. Erik is one of the coolest vocalists and most here know my love for the Tipton twins. It's a good album but it can't really stand up to a best-of list either. I don't know about the rest of you, but when I have to say best of, it's not just for the year, it's for all time. The criteria being "released this year, top 10 of which could compete with the top 10 of other years". 2011 fell on its face
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Old December 20th, 2011, 01:59 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Hävitetty is probably my favourite Moonsorrow album, but I would recommend starting with Verisäkeet, I think it might have just a bit more immediate appeal. Doesn't really matter though, they're both so good it's almost painful.

You shouldn't bother if you have a problem with long songs, though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHYOo...eature=related
Wow. Aside from whatever the hell vocal style that is (ugh), that is the most epic thing I've heard in a long time. The music is amazing, and reminds me much of older Opeth, which I love dearly.
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Old December 20th, 2011, 02:38 PM   #41 (permalink)
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^That's a pretty good disappointment.
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Old December 20th, 2011, 03:47 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Did you not enjoy Leprous - Bilateral, Ken? I imagined that this would top most lists on these forums this year. Not only will this end up being my top disc of 2011 (most-likely... I have a few more to listen to), but I'd consider it a top 10 of the last 5 years.

I am listening to Grace for Drowning today... so far, so good I love almost anything Steven Wilson puts out. No-Man, Porcupine Tree... the albums he produces are often amazing (Opeth, etc.).

Sadly, I don't think SX will be topping... or even making many lists this year.

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Old December 20th, 2011, 04:58 PM   #43 (permalink)
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With all the noise about Leprous, I'll have to check it out. There's still a week or two for me to revise!
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Old December 21st, 2011, 12:58 AM   #44 (permalink)
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Hävitetty is probably my favourite Moonsorrow album, but I would recommend starting with Verisäkeet, I think it might have just a bit more immediate appeal. Doesn't really matter though, they're both so good it's almost painful.

You shouldn't bother if you have a problem with long songs, though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHYOo...eature=related
I did check out Hävitetty, and I liked it a lot. I don't mind the vocal style at all, and it's cool to hear it in Finnish.

I love long songs! As long as they're done right, and not tasteless.

Thanks for the recommendation.
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Old December 21st, 2011, 01:25 AM   #45 (permalink)
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Agreed with these recommendations. Moonsorrow is great.


Yeah.


Oh, don't get butthurt. Opeth, PoS, and Amorphis disappointed. Those bands are capable of so much more that to put out a forgettable disc is inexcusable. Hopefully their next will be better. Unlike some people here, I don't blindly worship bands. Even my favorite bands have proven they are capable of lackluster releases and I'm not too insecure or afraid or whatever mechanism governs that sort of reaction to admit it and move on.

I did preface my "list" by saying that the year was terrible and I couldn't even call it a top 10. Why should I include a "brand name" band like Opeth, for example, only because of who they are? If their album didn't hit the radar hard enough then it doesn't deserve to stay there.

Re Cynthesis: Yes, I liked it. Erik is one of the coolest vocalists and most here know my love for the Tipton twins. It's a good album but it can't really stand up to a best-of list either. I don't know about the rest of you, but when I have to say best of, it's not just for the year, it's for all time. The criteria being "released this year, top 10 of which could compete with the top 10 of other years". 2011 fell on its face

I'm not getting butthurt at all really, only bringing up a legit point. From what you are saying it sounds like you are not making your picks based on how much you enjoy listening to them; rather, you are basing them on if they meet a certain level of expectation or not depending on what level of regard you have for each band. It just seems that either your logic is quirky, or that you should have just plainly said, "yeah, I like the album Amaranthe put out". You made it sound like you really didn't like it except that it happened to be catchy, as if you were too embarassed to admit you liked something so shallow or whatever. I was disappointed with Iconoclast because I expect so much more from SyX; however, it is still on my list because I still find it a very solid album that beats out a lot of other things. I am not gonna put say the new Iced Earth (which I did find decent) on my list over SyX just out of anger that Iconoclast wasn't as good as I know SyX can do. This is because overall I enjoyed it more than the new Iced Earth, it has nothing to do with fanboyism.

On the note of Cynthesis: I was actually disappointed with DeEvolution after the first listen because I think I was expecting something certain from it. This was due to the fact that I remember when it was originally being made as a Zero Hour album before Erik left all those years ago. I was so excited at the concept of it and got so disappointed when it got cancelled due to Erik's departure. Alas, I really think I expected it to sound like a Zero Hour album because of this. I eventually had to embrace the fact that it was a different band; thus, it had a different sound from ZH. It is definately a more ambient/atmospheric album and features a lot less guitar licks than one accustomed to ZH would expect.
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Old December 21st, 2011, 01:30 AM   #46 (permalink)
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For those who may be curious about Amaranthe


This was the first thing I ever saw of them. To me it sounds like something that would be like some sort of "gateway drug" to get more people into metal. I also found the first couple of verses the girl sings a bit funny because the vocal style reminded me a lot of Beyonce or something.
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Old December 21st, 2011, 02:40 AM   #47 (permalink)
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I find it funny, cause I feel like I should hate it, but I don't. Maybe it's the "distracted by the sexy" -effect.
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Old December 21st, 2011, 11:08 AM   #48 (permalink)
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^
I was distracted at first too, but didn´t get to the end of the video thanks to the music... This isn´t my cup of tea.

On other hand, I had the chance to hear Leprous´ debut "Aeolia" some time ago, and didn´t find it pleasing. But holy shit, I have fell in love with "Acquired Taste".

I definitely will check "Bilateral".
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Old December 21st, 2011, 04:17 PM   #49 (permalink)
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^
I was distracted at first too, but didn´t get to the end of the video thanks to the music... This isn´t my cup of tea.

On other hand, I had the chance to hear Leprous´ debut "Aeolia" some time ago, and didn´t find it pleasing. But holy shit, I have fell in love with "Acquired Taste".

I definitely will check "Bilateral".
Whenever I post a song from this album, I choose a random track; that's how great the entire thing is. Acquired Taste is no better than the others. Enjoy!
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Old December 21st, 2011, 06:47 PM   #50 (permalink)
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I'm not getting butthurt at all really, only bringing up a legit point. From what you are saying it sounds like you are not making your picks based on how much you enjoy listening to them; rather, you are basing them on if they meet a certain level of expectation or not depending on what level of regard you have for each band. It just seems that either your logic is quirky, or that you should have just plainly said, "yeah, I like the album Amaranthe put out". You made it sound like you really didn't like it except that it happened to be catchy, as if you were too embarassed to admit you liked something so shallow or whatever. I was disappointed with Iconoclast because I expect so much more from SyX; however, it is still on my list because I still find it a very solid album that beats out a lot of other things. I am not gonna put say the new Iced Earth (which I did find decent) on my list over SyX just out of anger that Iconoclast wasn't as good as I know SyX can do. This is because overall I enjoyed it more than the new Iced Earth, it has nothing to do with fanboyism.

On the note of Cynthesis: I was actually disappointed with DeEvolution after the first listen because I think I was expecting something certain from it. This was due to the fact that I remember when it was originally being made as a Zero Hour album before Erik left all those years ago. I was so excited at the concept of it and got so disappointed when it got cancelled due to Erik's departure. Alas, I really think I expected it to sound like a Zero Hour album because of this. I eventually had to embrace the fact that it was a different band; thus, it had a different sound from ZH. It is definately a more ambient/atmospheric album and features a lot less guitar licks than one accustomed to ZH would expect.
Here's the thing. "Even if IC isn't the best that SX can do, it's still a good album" isn't good enough for me. Iced Earth shouldn't be on anyone's list

It's hard to explain myself, and recently I may have discovered it might be because I am possibly somewhat autistic? Maybe? Anyway...

For me, a top 10 for the year with "albums that were still pretty good, but not as good as these bands are capable of" is a pretty sorry showing, for a TOP 10. Instead of tossing in a top 10 of those kinda albums, I just picked the 10 I listened to most, which is one way of slicing it. However, those albums weren't listened to nearly as much as older releases, so even then... this year has not really been top 10 worthy. should have clarified.

my 2c

PS: Leprous is pretty cool so far
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The greatest story leaves you before a door to the dark. felix, qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas.
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