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2008 Political debate thread

Discussion in 'Symphony X (Unofficial)' started by scanner313, Mar 11, 2008.

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  1. scanner313

    scanner313 The EYE

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    You're smart not to.

    No, he's not. And the only source that has stated that he is is the MSM. So...

    Please explain how he is a "nutjob". Because that has MSM written all over it. What exactly has he proposed that makes you believe he's a nutjob? The fact that he wants our government to abide by our Constitution? Considering that MOST of our politicians don't, I guess that could be viewed as crazy. But by not following it we're headed for disaster.

    I'll tell you why he isn't at the forefront of the race. Simply stated, the American people (the majority) don't understand, let alone care about his #1 issue, monetary policy and abolishing the Federal Reserve. But they will care very soon, as our economy continues to tank and the dollar loses even more of its value. Do you think the government sending checks out to stimulate the economy is a joke? Forget about the fact that it isn't going to do anything to help us, the seriousness of the recession we're in is going to become very apparent to every American who isn't already extremely wealthy.

    And I wasn't intending any disrespect for anyone here. Zach made a douchebag statement and I reacted to it, but I don't mean to come across as a jackass who thinks he knows everything. The problem is, I do know what is causing the problems America is facing right now. It all stems from the Federal Reserve and the fact that they were illegally given the authority to basically counterfeit money that our government then has to borrow (at significant interest) to keep the economy going. Ever wonder why we have a $9Trillion debt? It's not just overspending folks. Has anyone here ever stopped to contemplate how much money that actually is? Does anyone have any worry about the fact that over the next 5 years our government has promised another $55Trillion to American citizens in the form of Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and various other entitlements? Is anyone concerned that there is NO money to pay for all of these entitlements? So the government is going to have 2 choices... Raise taxes by a TON, or borrow that money to hide this debt from all of us. Well, the 2nd option isn't really an option because nobody in their right mind is going to continue lending to us when they know they will never get it back. Our sources of borrowing (including the Fed) will dry up, and then our government goes bankrupt and they won't have the money to pay for even the most basic services that we need from them, like national defense. If you think that the politicians who continue to run up this debt give a damn about anyone but themselves, you're dreaming. Here's a really good link that explains what is going on. I would recommend that everyone here at least read this article so that you understand the seriousness of our country's monetary problems. http://www.rense.com/general61/bbil.shtm

    Listen, I'm probably an old fart compared to most of you guys on this board. I'm 37 and have been a SyX fan since I first heard about them 10 years ago and I've been a member of this forum for years and have always enjoyed the people here, barring a few current members. I have always thought of this place as a community of "friends". That's why I'm even bothering to follow up with you guys on this. You guys need to know what's coming before it's too late. You are the generation who can make the biggest impact on our country, but you have to understand what we're facing if this country is going to survive. I know that sounds crazy, but it's frighteningly true.

    So please check out the link I provided above. If you don't believe it, fine. If you do, and want to know more, send me a PM and I'd be happy to discuss it with you. But don't ignore it because the information is too important.
     
  2. scanner313

    scanner313 The EYE

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    For the most part I would agree with you. MOST are scum, but every so often a truly honest one comes along. And when the rest of them mock them and call them crazy, the American people stand in line and listen like the sheep they are. Instead of backing the honest ones, they buy into the BS and disregard them.

    No, not without HIM. Without the masses waking up to what he's saying, and acting on it, we are most certainly fukt.

    What a comedian you are. Absolutely hilarious.

    Like I give a crap. Remaining a member of this forum is the last of my concerns.
     
  3. Swabs

    Swabs HAHA COOL

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  4. noble savage

    noble savage Member

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    Look, I'm not going to get into this argument again. I have already given my opinion on these matters in other threads. You'll find my opinions in the off topic thread.

    What I don't understand, as J-Dubya 777 stated (And no, I don't think he was trying to be a comedian. He was actually spot on.) is why you, and the rest of the followers of Ron Paul, display a cult like attitude towards him and the insane ideas he harbors. Resorting to personal insults about my intelligence (Completely out of context I might add!) does not further your cause, it is only detrimental. You can keep up the insults that's fine with me I don't care and I'm not going to give you or your maniacal agenda any more credibility by responding.
     
  5. DoomsdayZach

    DoomsdayZach The Professor was right

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    No, the problem is that you come across in sort of a jackassy manner dude... and you act like you know everything. So whether you mean to or not, you certainly do.

    I didn't make any douchebag statements other than disagree with your choice of politician and inform you that he's out of the running. And he is. Mccain is going to get the Republican nomination, and frankly while Mccain is not my top candidate choice, I'd be much more comfortable with him around than Paul. I do apologize if i came off as a dick for slamming your candidate, but you chose to take it personally rather than just saying "hey, you guys may not like his politics but i think he stands great on these issues". If instead of engaging in an intelligent debate at that point we just decided to go "NO FUK U LOL WTF RON PALL>" then you wouldn't look so bad would you?

    This is a totally opinion based "arguement", and it's great you're joining in. However, ron paul is not the only person who can make this country work. Yeah, i agree... we're in for some rough times ahead as a country, but that's in a large part thanks to our cowboy who's livin' it up in the whitehouse right now. We didn't have that crazy fucked debt 8 years ago. The dollar is losing value because we have a guy leading us who has no idea what the economy needs (well, it needs everyone to get $600 right? That'll not make things worse at all... just go buy a new TV). What's the solution to all that? Some new blood. The solution is not limited to Ron Paul.

    So, another question: Do you know this guy? Can you personally vouche for his wonderful character? How about someone you know... do they hang out with him on a regular basis? Hell, McCain seems like a pretty decent and honest guy. Obama seems like a nice dude. Sure, it's come out that he's done cocain and bought property from someone under investigation for fraud (or something, i can't remember off the top of my head), but he came right out and said "yeah, I've made mistakes. I never said i didn't" instead of dodging it like most politicians... how is Ron Paul more honest and genuine? What is the basis for this claim? Is it because he seems like a chill dude? Fuck, GW Bush seems cool. I'd have a beer with him any day, but I don't want him as my president.

    The problem is that Ron Paul supporters are just as guilty of regurgitating bullshit as any of the "sheep" they look down their noses at. That's not why i don't like Ron Paul (it's strictly his politics and plans for if he gets in office), but it also makes me not take you or anyone else like this seriously.

    And believe me, while I personally would like Obama in office, if someone was an Obama supporter or Clinton or McCain supporter and came in with the same attitude as you have in your posts, I'd respond in the same manner.
     
  6. scanner313

    scanner313 The EYE

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    Again, you call him insane and offer no evidence. Check the link I posted in that previous message and maybe you'll understand why his supporters (not followers) believe so strongly in his message. If you choose not to then fine, but then you have no right to claim we're a cult because you will not have educated yourself. That's your choice, I couldn't care less either way.

    And where exactly did I insult your intelligence? If I did, I apologize. I don't know you from Adam, so I couldn't comment either way. If I made a comment in that regard it would have been out of frustration, and I absolutely retract anything I said.
     
  7. scanner313

    scanner313 The EYE

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    Zach,

    I would be interested to continue an intelligent discussion on this subject if you were interested as well. And that would go for anyone else who wanted to join in. I don't understand what policies of his you're worried about, but I'd be happy to discuss them in the possibility that maybe what you think he has planned isn't exactly what he's about. I'd also be happy to share what information I have that makes me so adamant about the fact that I believe (me, only me) Ron Paul is the only candidate who will not destroy this country, because it's something I've learned over the last 8 or so months. The link I provided in that previous message sums it up pretty well.

    And I have met Ron Paul a couple of times. He's a sincere person who didn't run for President because he wanted to be President, but rather because people asked him to run. He is as honest as they come. He says one thing and does the same. He's proven this time and time again by his voting record, always voting to uphold the Constitution, the oath that ALL politicians make when taking office.

    Anyway, like I said, I'd be happy to explain to you the very big difference between him and the others. You stated above that you're worried about his policies and apparently you're not worried about Obama's. That's fine, but again, I think there might be some things about Obama that you're not completely aware of. Maybe you are and you like his positions, but I'd be happy to discuss them as well just in case you're not. And hell, maybe I'll learn something more about these other guys beyond the research I've already done. I'm always open to hear someone else's opinion.
     
  8. DoomsdayZach

    DoomsdayZach The Professor was right

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    Hey man, olive branch accepted :D

    But let's move this out of the latest purchases thread. Either PM me or start a political discussion thread... probably the latter so others can get involved in the discussion :) And I also apologize if i came off like a bitch. I've gotten little sleep in the past few days and i'm gearing up for st. patty's day... getting ready to fight like the irish :lol:

    edit: I'll start the thread.
     
  9. Swabs

    Swabs HAHA COOL

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    The link you provided had quotes from the bible in it... No thanks. :lol:

    Tbh I don't care who wins as long as they're not some religious fanatic
     
  10. DoomsdayZach

    DoomsdayZach The Professor was right

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    Ok, I don't have much to say right now, just starting the thread to continue discussion from other threads. It's very obvious that we have people with VERY opposing views here, so this is a possibility for some awesome discussion, learn some things about other candidates in the presidential election as well as just general discussion about political issues.

    Please please PLEASE though guys... let's keep this chill. You may not agree with someone's political beliefs, but that doesn't make them Satan. Things may get heated, but keep it about the issue and let's not go all Hillary Clinton and make things into personal attacks alright? :lol:
     
  11. noble savage

    noble savage Member

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    Ok, I'll start.:)

    My thoughts as well. I'm fine if they are moderately religious, but Huckabee/Romney type religious is scary. My hopes for an atheist president will never happen in my lifetime. If they are intelligent and capable of doing their job competently than they will get my vote.

    Fair enough.:) A few points of his I disagree with (I'll elaborate on them later if you want.)

    -Immigration.

    -Federal reserve (This is a big one!) I think this may already be self explanatory.

    -Religious ideology and the role of it in public.
     
  12. DoomsdayZach

    DoomsdayZach The Professor was right

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    I for one believe religion has no place in government. If a leader chooses to go to church or practice their faith, fucking awesome. However, when you're making decisions based on "christian values", we're in trouble. That is one of the things that scares me.

    I'll post more later when i can think coherantly :lol:
     
  13. noble savage

    noble savage Member

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    :ill:

    My biggest problem is that religion is the biggest factor in this race. Intelligence plays no identifiable role whatsoever in getting elected. The more you can quote from the bible, the better chance you have of getting elected. I'm also fine with people who have religious belief, but this is just ridiculous.
     
    #13 noble savage, Mar 11, 2008
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  14. Jax

    Jax Forum Goddess

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    Touchy topic..I'm going to let this stay for now, but the minute ya'll start hurling insults or getting personal, the thread will be deleted & JayDub and/or I will be hurling bans.

    Play nice. :)
     
  15. Taliwakker

    Taliwakker .....

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    Zach takes it in the pooper.
     
  16. J-Dubya 777

    J-Dubya 777 It NEVER ends

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    Perhaps I'm jaded, (oh, and not everyone here is younger than you, I'm nearly 44)...no politician I've ever met has impressed me. Be it at the local, state, or national level. There is also no recourse say for example, Mr. Paul managed to get elected, but did absolutely nothing as he claimed he would. I would imagine the supporters would say "...he needs more time, he needs another term to get "X" accomplished" What we get is the same old shit for another 4 years. If we could impeach a president for not following up, we'd have had 200-300 presidents in this country, if not more. The electoral system in this country is beyond fucked. This is why I mentioned the only way things are going change, be it for the better or for worse, is an overthrow, or some kind of revolution. Because I have not met or talked with Mr. Paul, his word is online or in print is no better than any other politician.


    I think you underestimate the population here. I'm sure a majority of us know how bad things are, but they also know that one person running for office isn't going to make THAT much difference, and won't be able to stop the out of control political machine that runs this country. The masses have to do that, and by masses, I mean the people, and NOT by who they elect.
    The problem is getting the self centered populus to do ANYTHING that might affect their watching American Idol, or cause even the slightest inconvenience in their lives, no matter if it might actually be for the better.

    Thanks, I'm here all week. Remember to tip your waiters, waitresses, and politicians... Would it had been more funny if I mentioned a Ron Paul tin foil hat? :)


    Fine by me, you'll be out of here with your next personal attack. (you were doing ok with your responses until I came to this one) Make it a good one, because it will be your last.

    Part of me was trying to be funny, making the Spacehip/Comet cult analogy, but it was based on exactly what you stated above...

    Religion needs to be kept FAR FAR away from politics, especially in this day & age...

    Edit: I'll try and move these posts to OT soon as I get a chance.
    On Topic: Thanks to the shitty winter causing HORRIBLE road conditions, I had to buy new tires for my car. Total cost $425 mounted, balanced, etc.

    Edit #2 - ALL Politicians are purchased, probably even Ron Paul......
     
  17. razoredge

    razoredge Member

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    I never pay much attention to politics because I know their all full of shit and its just a big game, but I dont really recall many presidents that were holy rollers. I guess this latest idjut has thrown out the God crutch a few times and Jimmy Carter I think was quite religious. Now comparing those two is like day and night. So I guess Im saying I dont think we the people need to feel threatened about the Church taking over the country. Best thing to do with those types is.... turn the other cheek and walk away. Frankly Im more scared of the bleeding heart idealists craming their mamzy panzy bullshit down our throat... which is exactly what has happend the past 20 years. When you get right down to it Id rather take my chance with the forgiving religious than have to go a round with all the special interest "we need more laws and regulations telling people how to live thier life" ball ass's. The religious just want to see more respect and decency and Im up for that.

    so this is how it goes,
    government works for a year supported by special MONEY interests trying to get elected
    3 years of golf
    work another year supported by special MONEY interests trying to get elected

    decades go by, then centuries, the rich get richer, get away with murder, more laws and regulations are put in effect because the government knows we are bad and cant keep on the straight and narrow without their helping hand but at the end of the day none of the real problems are fixed or even addressed...... except during that one election year.

    and the world keeps spinnin and people keep slinging the same ol shit every dirrection

    Im sure you all have heard about our NY state Gov.... the horn dog.... lol... and yet another distraction... this should occupy at least half a year of tax payer money and time we'll never get back

    I'm American....... I'm American
     
  18. Detective Clarence Beauregard

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    wtf is a Ron Paul? It sounds like something horrible. e.g. a kick in the nuts oww! I totally just Ron Pauled you!
     
  19. CantoX

    CantoX Member

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    It's not like the country is run by the president and he should be the fault of everything. He is just a single political figure, he doesn't have as much power as portrayed.

    All I know is that it is going to be Obama or Clinton. Don't care either way.
     
  20. J-Dubya 777

    J-Dubya 777 It NEVER ends

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    Hence my rant on change needed on the machine, not the presidential cog...
     
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