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2008 Political debate thread

Discussion in 'Symphony X (Unofficial)' started by scanner313, Mar 11, 2008.

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  1. Yngvai X

    Yngvai X Dark Emperor

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    I catch on that you don't really know what you're talking about and continually fail to understand my points.

    Show me where I said that, because I never did.

    A real creator will create regardless of this, though, because its in his nature, and its his passion and work... the harvest they reap first and foremost is in the satisfaction of the creating. Any artist with integrity will tell you that.

    Absofuckingloutely.

    Enabled in what way? Mentally, they're usually more enabled.

    uh, no. Again, where are you getting these notions from??

    No, I believe the thinker was the one who figured out how to spark a fire, create the wheel, and harvest crops, so the savage hunters could cook their food, travel faster, and not have to hunt like a beast anymore.

    I've done nothing but praise the people who create... how on earth are you deducing that I could in any way support someone who steals credit for someone else's work? Oh wait, I forgot, you're an idiot.

    http://www.espguitars.co.jp/original/index.html I can't read Japanese, but I'll assume this page would tell me if I could.

    I don't see how this is relevant.

    no.

    blah blah blah

    I care about bananas and coffee because I like my potassium and I like my caffeine. I don't really give a shit about pokemon, but you apparently missed my whole point (as you've continually been doing so).

    Again, its your choice to make yourself a slave to the product if you don't wanna do anything about the cost... my ex girlfriend's family had a wood burning furnace and her brother and father literally chopped firewood themselves on the weekends to feed it and are able to heat their large two story house almost entirely gas and oil free. Fuel efficient cars are great, but judging by what I see on the road, most people don't care about being fuel efficient.

    Using gas to get to work is not being wasteful... using your gigantic Hummer to get to work is. I mean, people are free to do what they want, I'm just saying if you're going to bitch about gas prices, don't use it unnecessarily, like driving an SUV with more cargo space than most people ever need to use regularly. Its like some fatass who complains about being fat but still eats at McDonalds every day.

    hahahaha like the US is the only country in the world that guitar manufacturers get their wood from. Again, I'd love to be able to read where ESP gets their wood from as its right on that page. But what I can tell you is where some common guitar tonewoods are harvested from. Mahogany, which is typically found as the primary wood used in Les Pauls, various acoustic necks, backs and sides, as well as a lot of higher end Ibanez and ESP models, typically comes from Africa or South America... because IT IS NOT NATIVE TO NORTH AMERICA AT ALL. Rosewood, one of the most common woods used for a guitar's fretboard, is also NOT NATIVE TO NORTH AMERICA and is commonly harvested from Brazil, India, and other parts of South America. Even US builders such as Fender and Gibson would need to import this shit from other countries.

    No, nor do I care. International exchange between countries has been going on since before America was even a thought in our founding father's heads. The process is simple: we have things other people want, they have things we want. Import and Export. Mutually beneficial to everyone. I hope for your own integrity everything you own and use was made 100% in the good ole US of A. And put down that cup of coffee.

    hahahaha, scare tactics? Who am I trying to scare? I'm just telling it like it is, maybe if its scaring you it should make you ask yourself why. Once again, I fail to see how I've even come off as being politically correct, because I'm very much not.

    Am I greedy? dictionary definition of the word greed: –noun excessive or rapacious desire

    Greed is what makes someone want to further themselves. I have an excessive desire for growing musically, gaining knowledge, and bettering my health and fitness. So yes, I am greedy. Tunnel vision? I take it as a compliment to say I have a very focused set of beliefs and ideals, so thank you. And I care about myself and my own well being first and foremost above "my own people". So you have not insulted me, nor painted an untrue picture... aside from the politically correct thing, and whatever the fuck "scare tactic" was supposed to mean.

    I'm tired of helping to make you look like a moron, you'll do just fine with that on your own. Now quick, here is your opportunity to get the last word in and call me a greedy selfish capitalist whatever... have fun.
     
  2. razoredge

    razoredge Member

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    Wow! I must have seriously challenged you. I wasnt aware this was about trying to win, Im only getting some truth out for others to ponder. Im far from a moron and I assume you are as well, but your still not focused. As far as I know we were talking about the effects abused capitolism has had on the deportation of jobs from the States. You're apparently OK with it and find those affected by it to have some kind of deficiency, that is sad.

    Trade... yes trade is old world stuff, which primarily involved seeking riches, you know rare stones and other fancys to decorate the self proclaimed... which history has shown us were tyrants and involved all sorts of human explotation. Capitolism has done the same thing today, just a bit less gruesome and a legal contradiction. However here in the States, I should say North America, there was at one time great self sufficiency. It could have remained and caused no harm.

    Why should you care about where raw & finished products come from... because we have become a product, oil and transportation based society... yet many are unaware or chose to ignore that most of our raw products are first shipped thousands of miles to be processed and sent back thousands of miles to us as finished products. This seems a bit of a contradiction to past & current oil and income related issues.

    Burning wood is great, I have not burnt a drop of oil for heat since '77, however the current cost of getting it processed and home has escalated, still a savings but a bit of an insult for this cheap, self sufficient person. However Im not ignorant and realize this is not an option for many people. To purchase it is only a small savings due to the expence of producing and delivering it. Then many just cant, due to population in areas.

    You are correct about the "exotic" woods used for finer guitars, "exotics" should be common knowledge. However the maple necks and ash, alder and basswood for bodies... some %age comes from the good ol USA or Canada, Im willing to bet its the largest %. Les Pauls used to use a Birch top, might be more maple used today for figured maple tops but Im not sure about Pauls. Birch and figured Maple - N America. Cedar & Spruce tops for acoustic and archtops - from N America. Many lower end archtops and including Gibsons, Ibanez, Gretsch, ect. are all maple and still expensive. What? am I some kind of idjut because I think these should be manufactured right here? We are not the only exporters of hardwood, apparently Russia was "timber rich" but Im unsure of the species or status. Australia is a resource too, I forget details, might be Alder. Just the same, we are primary exporters and I have always seen exporting raw products over finished products as self inflicting wounds... must be that moron thing. There has also been much controversy regarding traditional tone woods in recent years and basswood has proven that. We are filthy rich in Basswood, Ash and Alder..... yet try to sell a stick of it and if you do... make any money. I only wonder if that might have something to do with the thousands of miles of oil burned to get from point A to point B and back to point A ? But hey, the cheap labor is wipping DMF N Americans back in line, so what if its not efficient and a waste of crude. Guitars are just a drop in the bucket of all the good hardwood or softwood that has been exported (raw) and returned (finished) the past two decades.

    Steel ? China has pretty much cornered the market on steel and that I do find scary. Another bunch of wasted shipping oil. Another great loss of possible incomes. Price of prepared steel as of two years ago had risin 300%, partly due to oil used for smelting, partly due to oil used for this rediculous global shipping and I dont think a cornered market has helped much either. Yet corporate America was proud to have "crushed" the steel Unions and avoided environmental regulations... not sure about the trade off, but myself I'd look for better things to be proud of.

    Gas wasteage - I dont think this is a hard thing to figure out, really. Those driving the Hummers and SUVs to have their nails done I dont believe are as affected as those that just want to get to work and heat their homes that are watching a meager savings dwindle. Ignoring the effects of this on the honest working lower incomes.... well ?

    Should these things concern anybody.... gee, being a moron and all.... I cant really say. Other countries are very protective of their interests and doing well from our complacency. I certainly dont wish them harm but this is my country we are talking about.

    Your statements about greed and futhering oneself and how that is done are not focused on the big picture Im talking about, so you way out of context there. As with tunnel vision, same thing, Im talking about a narrow vision and your talking about self dignity and effort. Scare tactics, same deal, Im personally scared of little, I was refering to the use of the words communism and isolationist as a way to label people who are tired of the crap, looking for a change and outspoken. It seems to me as a way to distract the hoard of sheep that will say "I dont want to be one of them so screw change". Much the way other diminutive labels have been used to repress people in the past. So dont get so defensive, I was refering to the power abusers that have stuffed this globalization down our throats and those that agree with it. Im guessing it was at least against the will of 40% of America and for the personal short term gains of a comparitive handful... all while hiding behind the mask of "capitolism". So this blind corrupt twisted capitolism has become repressive within our own country, by bitch slapping workers that need to afford to live in this country with cheap exploited foreign labor.
     
  3. Progged

    Progged Member

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    Yup, that's a quote from that movie. I can't remember who said it tho. I'll rewatch it tomorrow when I am not working.
     
  4. Progged

    Progged Member

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    I think I was getting at the inflated bidding of forests. I feel if someone shoots themselves in the foot, they deserve what they get.
     
  5. Progged

    Progged Member

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    Yes it is, and the big labels are taking it in the pooper for their crap decisions. Independent labels and self production are where the true artists are now, and I support them gladly.
     
  6. razoredge

    razoredge Member

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    yea, that was what I was afraid of. You havent been there, easy to referee from the sidelines. This has been an on going problem with making everything a contest rather than a easily organized fair balance of production, future planing and distribution.... you know like the armed forces is set up. Here I was telling how everyone bit the dust, many were old, well established, large suppliers too, not just us little guys and I dont find my place in the scene frivolous with 20 years invested. I started grass roots, the honest good ol American dream, no help, one loan, did it all off my own back working production. Most people have no idea what its like to work production for pay, as they collect their hourly wages or guarenteed salarys, no commitment, no investment. Thank you for applauding our failure, as we struggled to meet the demands imposed by competitive bidding. Makes me feel real good. I "was lucky:erk:" only lost my career, life time dedication and direction. Many who were my "competition" lost tens of thousands of dollars and I certainly dont feel they got what they deserved.
     
  7. razoredge

    razoredge Member

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    no... their day jobs support them, but good call just the same o_O
     
  8. Progged

    Progged Member

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    It was still a poor decision and I feel it is greed that you have been condemning that drove the decisions in the first place - regardless of the arm-chair quarterbacking. And stick your "applauding your failure" where the sun doesn't shine. I never would applaud something like that, and hope that people learn from their mistakes versus expecting someone (the government) to bail them out of them.

    I see that you are offended by my comment which I apologize now for, but I tire of your sideways gouges at the military as well. We come from very different worlds, backgrounds and apparent philosophies.
     
  9. Progged

    Progged Member

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    True for the most part. Regardless, I buy their CDs.
     
  10. razoredge

    razoredge Member

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    There was no greed involved, we were giving up more of the profits in the name of keeping the ball rolling, staying in work, thats what bidding does, you dont know whats coming down the road in 4 months, could be garbage, could be nothing, you dont bid high enough you might not get any work... then what ? You have to keep going, balls to the wall. Thats how that system works and its drastically flawed. You cant speak of "decision" as if there was 1, it was an entire field of independents, competeing that all made the same decision... to stay balls to the wall. I really believe this is something you have no concept of. Even for us at the time, it seemed innocent and fair enough, in fact we were pleased to be able to see good profits on all ends. That money went to the State BTW, it was on the State land that was planted during the great depression, under the Civilian Conservation Corp program, where the government made meager paying work for men to keep familys fed. So 60 years later it was making good work again and returning investment back to the governments.... which they squandered... :erk: But damn... if you can hear me, it was great to see the long term venture working.

    I never indicated anyone needed a "bail out by the gov."... whats up with that ? Sounds like one of those distractions to me.

    I do feel the papers mills should not have been allowed to pull up their roots. They were making big money too. Record profits every year. They used them to jump ship, as a military man you cant understand this? I mean I definantly see it as being a traitor.

    Now today, at a much smaller volumn, the harvesting has resumed for framing lumber but all the junk wood just lays there, rotting rather than making paper, which we still use but is shipped from S America... I mean... hello! I love the "dont waste paper, save a tree" propaganda, people are just clueless and swallow it whole, their clear cutting the tropics for Christs sake. Around here, I've walked into recent cuts, they are a friggin mess with poor utilization, and shake my head and think "you know... this would have put $10,000 through my checking account and provided paper for this country"........

    as for my tight little ass... if you had'nt have said "we got what we deserved" you would'nt be picking that loud applaud out of yours.... :p

    fair enough ?

    I'm just trying to get some people to see the picture here, I sure as hell ain't public enemy #1.
     
  11. razoredge

    razoredge Member

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    Oh yea... I know the net and home recording is helping musicians with visibility and the front is changing. For the most part its still an expensive hobby. I dont care too much about the labels, though they can help with promotion and do employ people. I was only pointing out that extreme capitolism has been the cause of greedy or submissive dealings with labels... as per the subject of these many conversations... but that point was lost... somehow. distractions, distracions, distractions
     
  12. Progged

    Progged Member

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    Extreme capitolism is also proving to be the bane of the labels, as most commercial music has been crap for the past 5+ years, and sales have suffered. Supply and demand... No-one is demanding their crap, so capitolism is working in this industry in that instance.

    The other part of this thread is nearly becoming a flamefest so I am ending my part.
     
  13. Beelzebub

    Beelzebub Member

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    Bumping to keep the OT thread from being locked ;)
     
  14. ABQShredHead

    ABQShredHead ©1970

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    Aw, where's the fun in that, Yas?
     
  15. Kenneth R.

    Kenneth R. Cináed

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    In bumping? LOTS of fun! Bumper cars, bumper boats, bumper sex...

    On a serious note, I'm glad we can FINALLY start having a discourse about the general election.
     
  16. Phanto

    Phanto Alalalalalalalala.

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    When the hell are you choosing a new president? It's taking ages.

    (EDIT: I know it's taking ages. I was being metaphorical.)
     
  17. razoredge

    razoredge Member

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  18. Kenneth R.

    Kenneth R. Cináed

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    We're down to 2 candidates now. Decisions will be made in november, and take effect in january.
     
  19. razoredge

    razoredge Member

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    then three years goes by.... nothing gets done.... lots of money is made and spent by those that need it most... then another year and billions of dollars are spent trying to become the next worthless asshole... then the perfect cycle is complete.... ready to start again... its a great thing really
     
  20. Kenneth R.

    Kenneth R. Cináed

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    which is why I'm not voting for McCain to keep that cycle going...
     
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