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2008 Political debate thread

Discussion in 'Symphony X (Unofficial)' started by scanner313, Mar 11, 2008.

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  1. Meedleyx10

    Meedleyx10 Member

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    @Progged:

    What branch are you in? I'm from an Air Force family myself, Grandpa , uncle, and my Dad are all retired Air Force. My dad just retired from active duty last month and I have another uncle who's still in. I have the upmost respect for our military (and zero respect for those who disprespect them). Cheers dude:kickass:
     
  2. Progged

    Progged Member

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    Air Force as well, and Cudos to your family for serving their country!
     
  3. noble savage

    noble savage Member

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    The same extends for a bit of my family as well (army and air force). It always pisses me off when people bash them.
     
  4. razoredge

    razoredge Member

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    First of all I did not say I disrespected the military for its intended purposes. Unfortunantly they have been perverted since WWII. My father was in the army. My Uncle was in the Navy and then was civilian employed till retirement, in Pensacola. His son my cousin is a Navy lifer, was in the Gulf War and my best friend from school days was in the Air Force, his brother the Navy, their father the Navy. Me.... I got out of HS and broke my ass supplying America with our own natural resources, long days, longs weeks, all weather, for real shitty pay, and was happy and proud that I was an HONESTLY productive part of America doing the right thing.

    Progged - I well aware of your point about what people vote for, its a no brainer, but probably still good you brought it up. Its just alarming that you say you would vote for anybody just due to the fact that they were in the military, as if everyone with a military background cant possibly do no wrong. Or that your vote would be cast for someone that would continue to break the budget of the country because its a good thing for you and yours.

    If you didnt want a pissing match, why would start and then follow your little rhetoric by saying that I have done nothing for this country ? Offensive much ? Jump to conclusions much ? Are you saying that anyone that has not joined one branch of the military....... does nothing for their country ? Please, come clean here..... I a champion myself........

    So from a military basis lets deny these things
    Vietnam
    Cold War armorment
    is the military not totally obsessed with its expensive toys ?
    has the military not armed these coutries we have had to go to war with or may have to go to war with ?
    has this latest boondoggle not run the debt of America into our grandchildrens lifetime ?
    we wont go into aborted helicoper rescue crashes and wrongly shot down aircraft and other human flaws

    Im all about a strong military and swift firm action, but everything has its limitations and practicality
     
  5. Progged

    Progged Member

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    You're damn straight I expect a candidate to do well for me and mine. I also expect a candidate to do well for the farming community because that's also where I am from. You are a lunatic if you think people won't vote for something that places them close to their values and support. I also expect a candidate to lower the price of higher education so my kids can go to college. Would I give a damn if these issues weren't directly effecting me? Sure, but not to the same degree. Are you telling me you don't vote based on something that doesn't effect you personally? This one I have to hear.

    As for the military... We need these expensive toys, and more of them. How do you expect to have a strong military with equipment and technology from the 70s... The military hasn't armed other countries, administrations have. This latest boondoggle isn't a boondoggle in my view, and it wasn't put in place by the military. Especially for these kids that are below the financial poverty line that have such a great "gig".
     
  6. Progged

    Progged Member

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    Oh, and I do still think that having a military background brings up someone's stock for president. Especially if it was an officer that went to one of the academies. That person would also have to share my views. If you think that I would vote for someone that spent some time military but doesn't share my views, then I apparently have not made myself clear.
     
  7. razoredge

    razoredge Member

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    Oh I wasnt aware that our military was still on 1970's technology and lacking in toys..........

    Obviously using the term "the military" covers a wide spectrum of service men, and Im the last to go after people at the bottom. There is no doubt higher ups in the services, weapons manufactures and military oriented government officals have been responsible for weapons deals as well as deployment of troops and hanging in there even after it all becomes fruitless.

    No one could be more in favor than myself to have a hardened, tuff, no nonsense country leader but its a matter of where they are going to apply that energy. If their primary focus is spendings fortunes on the... already... most high tech, most powerful military in the world, and squandering fortunes we dont have chasing down a personal agenda that yields nothing....... you can bet Im going to question that priority.
     
  8. Progged

    Progged Member

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    The majority of our fighter aircraft were developed in the 70s. We are finally in the process of replacing those aircraft needed for Air Superiority. We also need to be developing the next level of platforms to remain at the top. And if you think Iraq and Afghanistan are personal agendas, you are in need of strategic study.
     
  9. razoredge

    razoredge Member

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    We have air superiority, as if theres a need for dogfights.

    Iran, Iraq and Afghanistan are all places we played our little American, military strategic games with decades ago..... now we have been reaping the harvest of our meddleing...... not so sure Im the one that needed the study in strategies... perhaps it was our elected military oriented government officials.
     
  10. Progged

    Progged Member

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    Air Superiority =/= dogfights. Without Air Superiority, there is no ground superiority.

    And look at a Risk board to see the significance of the aforementioned countries.

    Are you allways this venomous? I bet you are a hoot at parties...
     
  11. razoredge

    razoredge Member

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    Seems to me everyone is sitting ducks when our armed forces come to town, so I guess I missed the part where we did not have adaquate air to ground support

    people always hate the truth.... especially when it crashes their party ;)

    any good farmers running for president ? or just military, religious and yuppy realestate scammers ? ........... :lol:
     
  12. DoomsdayZach

    DoomsdayZach The Professor was right

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    Hey guys, let's keep this under control. Both y'all have good stuff that's interesting to read, but it's getting dangerously close to personal bullshit (heated debates often do :p )

    That said, i'll respond and back Razor a bit on this. Fighting in the armed forces is not the only way to serve your country. Also, I think the line is getting blurred between people supporting the idea of war and people supporting the actual humans there that are risking and losing their lives. I don't support the war. I don't support the government using the troops like players on a risk board. In fact, i think "supporting the troops" is asking our government to bring them home so they can live in peace with their families. Saying "hey, lets fight this out until the bitter end *coughvietnamcough*" is not quite as supportive to me... "Hey Johnny, grab your gun. You're going back for your fourth tour in Iraq". :erk:

    I have military in my family too by the way. I have close friends that i've known most of my life, and it depresses the hell outta me to see this. I just don't think sending people off to die is a good idea at any point in time.
     
  13. razoredge

    razoredge Member

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    I've taken no offence to anything Progged has said and understand all of his ideas. Just dont feel good about the excessive spending, and meddleing, wouldnt work with my check book... shouldnt for my countries or state. I dont think the neighbors would appreaciate my comming around and playing with their lives either... nor would law enforcement. Somehow government bodies have a different set of laws.

    My farmer comment was dead serious, Id love to see a leader that well knows the bottom rung and not the free to write any bill at the tax payers expence kind of mentality.
     
  14. J-Dubya 777

    J-Dubya 777 It NEVER ends

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    Relax Zach, I've been eyeballing this thread since its inception. Nothing's happened to be alarmed about. Quit trying to moderate! :p ;)

    The quickest way to NOT spend a lot of money on this war would be to make the entire area glow for a couple hundred years. Somehow I think we'd be a bit more hated in the world view than we are now. I support every last fucking guy/gal who get deployed over there. I sure hope we can get out of the quagmire we're in. And for all of those people who lap at Cindy Sheehan's (& the like...) teet, so much for your war for oil, huh?
     
  15. J-Dubya 777

    J-Dubya 777 It NEVER ends

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    One more thing that completely disgusts me is the media involvement in the war. War sucks, but sometimes it's a necessity. Why do we have to have media imbedded with the troops? Referees? Why does everything have to be so surgically clean? My dad is a WWII vet, and I've heard plenty stories of him going town to town as well as fighting in the German forests (My dad was in that whole Band of Brothers scenario for a time). You shot at anything that moved. You didn't have time to care if it was a dog, a cat, a man, a woman, or a child in that darkened window. Could have been a machine gun nest. You see movement, you take it out. We're TOO concerned about collateral damge. When you have "civillians" accepting your offering of food, only later to hide under the cover of a mosque, and pop ak47 rounds at you should be good enough to stop the handouts, and level the mosque. War has become too freakin' p.c. for me. Let them do their job & hopefully get out& come home. With the current situation in Iraq, I have almost ZERO faith that those people are ever going to be able to govern themselves.....
     
  16. Kenneth R.

    Kenneth R. Cináed

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    lmao at this thread, started by the ron paul guy. got no campaigning now eh? haven't missed much in the days i avoided this forum. i also have no interest in longwinded internet battles about politics, but would enjoy discussing 1on1 with anyone. so i guess this is a useless post then.
     
  17. DoomsdayZach

    DoomsdayZach The Professor was right

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    Hey, I didn't know if you were paying attention or sexin' your other pool boy. YES I FOUND OUT ABOUT PABLO!!! :mad:
     
  18. razoredge

    razoredge Member

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    yea, great post Ken....... lol

    I agree with ya JD... the bright glow part saving money and the politically correct mamzy panzy BS. Anyone sneaking around in the middle of a war zone isnt very smart. Why arent they fighting and makeing the stand and sacrifice on their own ?

    History has yet to prove that policing a foreign country ends on a good note. Im sure the higher percentage of Iraq is quite amused to see us spending/wasteing all that money there... and all the attention... what fun.

    I think our job was done there a few years ago, move out, give them time to get it straight or not. Go back again if they regroup and start in with the same repressive ways, which is what is going to happen anyhow. That business has been going on there for centuries, we're not going to stop it....... which brings us back to the bright glow resolution....... lol

    In the meantime the military is wasting all that oil I could be using to blow my leaves.
     
  19. J-Dubya 777

    J-Dubya 777 It NEVER ends

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    Ditch the chick, & I'll re-hire you! :lol: (J/K Vicky!) :heh:
    Later this week, I may not be around, as I go into care provider mode for 2 weeks. All I need is a wifi signal to hop onto, and I'll be around!
     
  20. J-Dubya 777

    J-Dubya 777 It NEVER ends

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    Does that make me "green" because I own a rake??? :)
     
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