This site is supported by the advertisements on it, please disable your AdBlocker so we can continue to provide you with the quality content you expect.

Welcome to Our Community

Wanting to join the rest of our members? Feel free to sign up today.

A/Bing with reference track in WMP

Discussion in 'F.O.H.' started by Downtuned, Oct 17, 2016.

  1. Downtuned

    Downtuned Losethehorizonagain

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2011
    Messages:
    123
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    UK
    Hey folks,

    I usually A/B with a reference track by just playing from the mastering session in Cubase and then playing the reference track in Windows Media Player at full volume.

    I don't know why but I decided to actually import the reference file and play it through a separate 'clean' output channel so it wouldn't be influenced by my mastering chain and the reference track sounds way quieter.

    Does Windows Media Player have a normalisation function on it or a volume boost becasue it's way louder then the actual raw track when played on there.

    I'd hate to think I've been chasing ghosts and trying to match an unnaturally loud master when a quieter one would be perfectly adequate (which suits me).

    Thanks!
     
  2. MrBongo

    MrBongo idiot at work

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2011
    Messages:
    304
    Likes Received:
    27
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Ruhrpott Germany
    the Windows media player has an integrated compression algorithm you cannot disable
     
  3. Downtuned

    Downtuned Losethehorizonagain

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2011
    Messages:
    123
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    UK
    Thanks for the reply.

    I figured it was something like that. Always wondered why my masters were never 'quite' loud enough when comparing. The good thing is they are now!
     
  4. bryan_kilco

    bryan_kilco Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2007
    Messages:
    4,623
    Likes Received:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Poconos, PA
    I used to do the same thing.

    Also, I notice whenever I load reference tracks into Reaper, they always clip the master when faders are at 0. Is this normal? I'd think that the tracks are obviously already mastered and shouldn't be going over 0.0db?
     
  5. Korwent

    Korwent Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2012
    Messages:
    288
    Likes Received:
    40
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    France
    I think it is a question of digital representation of the wavedorm and the definition of digital clipping :
    When you sample a waveform, you represent it on a scale, clipping being when you clip the analog circuit being converted to digital.
    However, if you for example sum waveforms in the digital domain, you can't go past the maximum value of the signal represented!
    So there is in fact no real clipping when the file is exported, the waveform does stay blocked at max value but cannot cross it.
    That's why there is a convention stating that IIRC 3 samples at max value in a row is considered clipping by the DAWs.
    However, it does not mean there is true clipping, it is just a question of statistics, you have a good chance such a row of samples might get your output converter to clip depending on what surrounds them.
    On the other hand, using mastering limiters, most have intersample peak detection, meaning that they verify there really is no clipping, even with those 3 samples in a row, so they prevent clipping a better way than what is traditionally used by DAWs, thus opening a mastered track in a DAW can cause it to show clipping where in fact the mastering limiter prevented it.
    Or else, I could be wrong, but that's what I've come to think!
     
  6. MrBongo

    MrBongo idiot at work

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2011
    Messages:
    304
    Likes Received:
    27
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Ruhrpott Germany
    you´re right about the 3-samples-clip, because that´s what it is: a short moment of the same amplitude.
    But there is no moment of rest in music, except for total silence or DC. Both of which it is not. Something has gone overboard and was caught by a clipper, or was just left as-is.

    Just because you use a good ISP limiter, doesn´t mean someone else does it too ;) I still find clipping in probably 95% of commercial music
     
  7. nezvers

    nezvers Beast

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    1,399
    Likes Received:
    36
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Latvia, Riga
    It seems that Reaper add minimal gain on imported files. Try edit clip and normalize it, you'll see gain of -0.something or more.
     

Share This Page