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Are Manowar power metal?

Discussion in 'General Metal Discussion' started by Hammer of Might, Mar 21, 2006.

  1. TechnicalBarbarity

    TechnicalBarbarity -TheNightsBane-

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    so in other words you crushed your own argument? got it. well done

    just admit it, you posted that song because you thought that the title would help your ridiculous claim...

    DEEP PURPLE WERE THE FIRST SPEED METAL BAND BECAUSE OF SPEED KINGZ :lol:
     
  2. CiG

    CiG Zen Arcade

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    It's on you if you decide to be that uncharitable, but I'm saying the title has nothing to do with it, the song itself is a great example of USPM.
     
  3. HamburgerBoy

    HamburgerBoy Active Member

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    I feel like an argument has been suddenly teleported into this thread.

    Whatever the background, I'd say Manowar was a significant influence on power metal, though most of their (early) songs are just anthemic trad metal. I would say that many songs on Hail to England are pretty much speed metal as well.
     
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  4. TechnicalBarbarity

    TechnicalBarbarity -TheNightsBane-

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    100% agree with everything here
     
  5. Master_Yoda77

    Master_Yoda77 True Doom

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    It's probably a little bit of both.
     
  6. CiG

    CiG Zen Arcade

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    So are you guys saying they aren't USPM or that USPM itself isn't power metal? Because Manowar are universally defined as a USPM band.
     
  7. HamburgerBoy

    HamburgerBoy Active Member

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    USPM is a borderline term. For example, dual lead guitars are usually found in power metal, yet you won't find it in Manowar or Omen. At the same time, bands referred to as USPM still had a tendency to use more galloping riffing and less bluesy melodies, and there is at least some link to later power metal. imo it's a useful descriptor for people that know what it means (Maiden/Priest-influenced metal with more fantasy themes and more overt guitar melodies), but it's not exactly a full sub-genre unto its own. Manowar being "universally defined as a USPM band" is a newer phenomenon.
     
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  8. TechnicalBarbarity

    TechnicalBarbarity -TheNightsBane-

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    it's pretty simple. What i'm saying is that Manowar are not a power metal band. That is pretty clear and im shocked that someone your age who has been listening to this genre for years is even implying it. You say universally defined(not even close tbh) but i dug up this thread just to show you that just about everyone here(back then at least) would have disagreed with you.
     
  9. Krow

    Krow Garbage Connoisseur

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    Tbh I’m not sure what the difference in USPM and traditional heavy metal from the United States is.
     
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  10. TechnicalBarbarity

    TechnicalBarbarity -TheNightsBane-

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    .. i dont consider it a true subgenre, but i personally sometimes tag it onto the more faster, melodic trad with balls in a vice vocals like Fates Warning, Jag Panzer etc.
     
  11. HamburgerBoy

    HamburgerBoy Active Member

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    imo:

    Trad heavy metal - more blues scales, more pedal-point riffing, more songs about women and music, more mid-tempo; WASP's S/T, Savatage's Sirens thru Power of the Night, earlier Riot, Helstar's Burning Star

    USPM - more galloping riffing, more guitar harmony, more songs about fantasy, history, etc, generally more up-tempo; Queensyche's The Warning, Arch-era Fates, Titan Force, Helstar's later 80s albums

    But there's still overlap between most of those. On the Panzer front, Symphony of Terror and The Watcher are USPM, while Licensed to Kill, Warfare, Cardiac Attack, Generally Hostile are trad or speed metal.
     
  12. TechnicalBarbarity

    TechnicalBarbarity -TheNightsBane-

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    now i'm curious, when was the first time the term "USPM" was used? Did any of those bands refer to themselves or the music they played back then as power metal? Probably not, right?
     
  13. CiG

    CiG Zen Arcade

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    lol I don't care about the faglords in this old thread, by universal I just meant on sites that categorize bands. But I also never pretended like USPM and Euro power metal were identical, so trust me I'm not under some illusion that Manowar and Halloween are the same.

    It might actually make more sense to view USPM like we do NWOBHM, more of a tag to describe a place and time in music rather than a perfectly defined sound.
     
  14. TechnicalBarbarity

    TechnicalBarbarity -TheNightsBane-

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    HAVE SOME RESPECT FOR YOUR FORUM ELDERS! THEY LAID DOWN THE GROUNDWORK FOR US! lol

    But yeah, i agree. And that's pretty much what myself and most people have been doing as far as i know.
     
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  15. TechnicalBarbarity

    TechnicalBarbarity -TheNightsBane-

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    And as far as sites that categorize the band. Not one site has them labeled as a full on power metal band. For example its not even a primary on RYM for the album you tried to bring up as an example and their Discogs profile clearly says "Manowar is an American Heavy / Epic Metal band from Auburn, New York" and does not have Power Metal as a descriptor for any of their albums. Same goes for wiki. Has the band ever referred to themselves as a power metal band? nope, not that i know of at least.
     
  16. HamburgerBoy

    HamburgerBoy Active Member

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    I don't know about 'USPM', but one historical footnote from 1984:

    https://sendbackmystamps.org/2015/04/05/brain-damage-1-usa-ca-1984/jag-panzer-2/
    https://sendbackmystamps.org/2015/04/05/brain-damage-1-usa-ca-1984/omen-3/

    I especially like the Omen blurb, "7 out of 10 tunes are in the 'Phantom of the Opera' or 'Crionics' beat", which I think was a pretty fitting observation even 35 years in retrospect, especially when noting that Dave Lombardo himself cited Phantom of the Opera as the a-ha moment as he gained his chops, and when noting that Slayer's very earliest, pre-album songs were pretty similar to stuff like Omen as well. People were at least conscious of some of the defining elements of USPM in the mid 80s even if they didn't have the exact acronym.
     
  17. TechnicalBarbarity

    TechnicalBarbarity -TheNightsBane-

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    Nice, i love reading through those old articles

    Were you not one of the dudes who vehemently argued with me that Jag Panzer were not power metal? Lol
     
  18. HamburgerBoy

    HamburgerBoy Active Member

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    Like I said, I think a couple songs on the debut qualify, but a lot just sound like fast aggressive heavy metal to me. But I included that article because I'll acknowledge that people have referred to the album as power metal since its release, even though it doesn't fit the current meaning of the term for me imo.

    fwiw, that zine also labels Overkill's Power in Black demo as power metal (which I agree with in that context; lots of Maiden influence in their sound back then) as well as Voivod's War and Pain (which is a wtf).
     
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  19. Somethingface

    Somethingface Member

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    Forget Power Metal, I wonder if Dirk ever got back to Timmy and showed him his MVP and FMVP?
     
  20. CiG

    CiG Zen Arcade

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    Yeah I'm aware of this, as far as I can tell, most USPM bands are defined that way, as either heavy metal/power metal (like Manowar on Metal Archives) or as primarily heavy metal with power metal as a secondary. Admittedly USPM is a weird umbrella, for example it never sat quite right with me that Cirith Ungol are considered a USPM band.
     

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