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Discussion in 'Bar' started by ForHerDeadEyes, May 8, 2013.
yeah, all of this is doesn't make much sense
I was wondering about that aswell. But police work in the US is very different from here, where the police isn't allowed i.e. to deliver someone explosives if they suspect he wants to bomb something, and then arrest him (for planning it and for posessing the explosives, lol). Just like getting an undercover cop to ask someone who has a crisis "so you want to get rid of your wife huh?" wouldn't be legal in Germany. There are lots of cases of US police forces using these instigating techniques where there also were debates about whether it's okay to do that, or if the people would even have tried to carry out their plans without the generous help of undercover cops.
And I'm not trying to defend him, just pointing it out that I find it strange.
^ yeah, that would be "verführung und anstiftung zu einer straftat" here, I think.
I know that it works different in the US...still, hard to believe that shit.
We'll see the outcome I guess
Almost posted this but I didn't want to steal your thunder.
I can't help myself.
I'm going to wait and see how this develops before passing any judgments. The authorities and media have a way of spinning situations in ways which are anything but balanced. Shit, if there were any undercover cops around the last few times I spoke about what I'd like to do to my ex, I'd probably be in jail too.
I don't know the details of the case, but there most definitely are laws against police entrapment - I don't know the details, but the hyper simplified example a teacher who was a former cop gave was that an officer can go undercover as, say, a drug dealer and wait on the corner for someone to approach and ask for shit, but if the officer is the instigator ("yo y'all want some crack?") the case will probably get thrown out
One of these articles I read said they already had reason to believe he wanted her dead, so more than likely the undercover cop was positioned to be accessible for Tim to reach out to, rather than the cop approaching him
As Marcus wrote above ^, that's called entrapment in the U.S. legal system and there are laws against it. Most of them have to do with instigating the criminal act, but the line is kind of fuzzy and ultimately you have to prove you didn't want to do it when given the chance, because the evidence won't hold up in court otherwise. Here's a good article about it:
But it's almost exclusively used for terrorist groups, criminal networks, etc. In other words, this case is almost certainly real because no cop has an incentive to arrest this guy nobody knows about.
It seems as though the allegations are true i.e. he's been arrested.. not that he's guilty.. that's for a court to decide..
Some people snap..
But as I understand it he cheated on his wife, and they have kids.. he should've thought about them..
I just realized he might've been stupid enough to go on the 'Deep web' and ask for an assassin..
You don't want to go there.. trust me..
But I remember seeing ads for hiring killers/assassins..
He probably tried it, and got in contact with the undercover cop..
that is crazy, I guess Im not suprised that secretly coded sites exist for folks who are up to no good, governments or just mega nerds. Learn something new every day. The plot thickens.
In many of these types of murder for hire type investigations it ends up being a confidential informant tips off the police that so and so is looking for someone to perform the task and that's how the police get involved and place an undercover posing as a potential hitman. I'd imagine law enforcement in Southern California has a pretty big network of confidential informants among the dregs of society where one might put feelers out to when looking for someone for something like he is being accused of.
Huh, i wonder what this means for their upcoming tour with Killswitch.
this happened to someone I know. the EXACT same thing. there was no trap involved in that situation .. just good 'ole fashioned stupidity
if its true in this case, chances are he's also been dipping his toe in other areas he shouldn't have, which is how he got connected with the "hitman" in the 1st place
Someone you know tried to kill his wife..?
Yes I am aware of that (also kew the article, thanks anyways!) and cases like the mentioned were discussed in European newspapers etc. a lot. Of course they don't "force" someone to commit a crime or instigate them directly - but as you said, the line is fuzzy and compared to most european states it is much less regulated/strictly forbidden in the US (..so much for the official side, of course it could be that they make much more use of these techniques here and elsewhere but I can't judge that obviously).
Using your example, here the police would have to prove you would have done exactly the same thing without their involvement which is much more difficult. And I mean I get it, from the police/prosecution/judges view it is extremely difficult to assess in retrospective how someone would have acted without the fake help, hell it's basically impossible.
And yeah I think in a case as "unimportant" as this it is unlikely - yet not impossible - they had an active role in the whole thing. I'm also not a conspiracy theory guy at all, and I'm not raging about your justice system or the US in general. Just wanted to make that clear
Suddenly my AILD tattoo is looking not so cool.
nah, here's the breakdown:
an ex gf of mine tried to hire a hitman to kill the ex-wife of her new boyfriend. This dude was basically a bit shady anyway, petty criminal, dabble in selling drugs, stolen shit, etc ... so he was already on a watch list because he did happen to know and / or work with some people the FBI was actually interested in. Anyway, this dude is a deadbeat, never paying child support or alimony to his ex wife so she was constantly calling or emailing, blah blah blah trying to get this guy to own up to what was right. My ex took it on herself to reach out to some of these shady associates to see if someone could put her in touch with someone who could "handle the problem"
she gets hooked up with someone, meets with the guy several times to discuss a plan (HER plan, how she wanted it done) and then the final meeting she brought like $5k to pay the guy. She got arrested as soon as the transaction was over. The hitman was an undercover FBI dude
She got sentenced to 10 years in federal prison, I think she just got out this year actually
fucking moron lol
Now I remember telling Tim to deliver some killer vocals for the new Austrian Death Machine, damn
Sweet. Hopefully it will at least end another stupid metalcore band. Now how to get rid of all the other 2637236523 ones........