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AutoPocket: New Beat Detective clone for Reaper (demo video)

Discussion in 'Backline' started by AdamWathan, Oct 6, 2010.

  1. darthjujuu

    darthjujuu Member

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    bump! Adam! any thoughts on my above statement ^ ? As in a unified package installer for Reaper Wathan Edition? :lol:
     
  2. AdamWathan

    AdamWathan Member

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    Definitely something I intend to do in the near future! Import/Export of all preferences/keymaps/menus, etc. is a feature that is being implemented in Reaper right now for version 3.73 so once the format and everything is finalized and that version is out the door I will post something up.
     
  3. darthjujuu

    darthjujuu Member

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    will undoubtedly become the new standard.
     
  4. TheDriller

    TheDriller Member

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    perhaps its to do with how they seem to be terrified of it actually becoming a brilliant daw? :loco:
     
  5. darthjujuu

    darthjujuu Member

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    just snagged 3.73 and installed the toolbar/extensions, extensions are installed properly and the floating toolbar is in place, smoothing and the other buttons work (absolutely amazing o_o!!!) but upon right-click arming the split tool, it does not seem to work o_0 the cursor has the little A, but can't get the functionality. possibly a bug with 3.73??
     
  6. AudioGeekZine

    AudioGeekZine arsehole know-it-all

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    Are you arming the dynamic split button? That's not going to work.
     
  7. AdamWathan

    AdamWathan Member

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    You imported the keymap too that has the Split Tool action in it right? If you did that and it's still not working, it's probably because custom actions don't necessarily maintain the same ID number across systems. Ditch the button that's already on the toolbar and re-add it yourself by finding the action in the actions list through the toolbar editor and you should be good to go.
     
  8. AdamWathan

    AdamWathan Member

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    BTW, check this bitch out, going to be in the next extension update thanks to Jeffos on the Reaper forum:

    [​IMG]

    A proper dialog! Yay!
     
  9. The-Zeronaut

    The-Zeronaut Mixing..Y U SO DIFFICULT?

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    EPIC.
     
  10. darthjujuu

    darthjujuu Member

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    this thread should really be getting more attention. this is (to my knowledge) the most comprehensive beat detective alternative ... in existance, currently, and how long has BD been around for?? i've thought about this, too... i have some extensive programming experience and I remember using BD and thinking to myself, the fundamental concepts and code behind this are NOT mathematically mind boggling... this isn't some futuristic miracle like elastic audio was, it's just a batch cut/quantize/x-fade... and i was confused as to how it was viewed as this untouchable revolutionary thing (which when it first came out it obviously was,) but why has no other DAW tried to create a similar tool???

    ...and apparently i wasn't too far off if adam by himself is on his way to (in a matter of days, it seems?) scripting a near-complete BD alternative, using just API calls and not even the complete reaper sourcecode. and the transient preserving stretch mechanism is genious, something digi hasn't even thought of.

    three hugely awesome things that many of you may not have noticed:

    1. The trigger pad mechanism does NOT rely on being set before you split everything. This is huge because it opens up all sorts of options for splitting...you can try a dynamic batch split, do it by hand, or a combination of the two. In BD, you NEED to use the built in split mechanism or the rest of the process isn't as functional because the beat markers aren't in place. So now we have the option of ..say, doing a very low sensitivity batch split, and then combing through by hand and quickly nabbing all the transients it missed. the wathan split tool is also genious... has any other DAW done that yet?

    2. the transient preserving time stretch mechanism is going to make lots of batch edits sound noticably better than they could've ever possibly sounded in BD, without getting tediously surgical and doing it by hand. such a great idea, leaving the phase of the transient unaltered but creating a tiny stretch to space things out.

    3. Combining a BD-like workflow, in ADDITION to the ability to also manually use reapers fantastic slip edit functionality, creates a hybrid approach so we can (in one song) switch from whichever method is more practical to the next, as the material demands it.

    also, less important but still cool... no ridiculously primitive slow fade renders. not that this was a huge deal in PT, but seriously, why does that shit take so long?? with 2010 CPU's fades shouldn't need to be rendered on the spot anyway.

    this is big shit guys, adam deserves some major credit here and i'm gonna be legitimately pissed at life if he doesn't find a career in this. if all these advancements reach the potential they have, this could be a big game changer for Reaper Vs. PT9 for intermediate level dudes who are serious about drum edits. the only big hurdle after this is going to be groove quantize, and percentage quantize (so things don't need to be hard gridded, just tightened a bit.) Or do we already have that?? Perecentage quantize seems like it'd be pretty easy to implement.

    ALSO- Adam, i've heard people talking about an elastic audio engine marker-based implementation in Reaper 4, do you know anything about that??
     
  11. John_C

    John_C formerly Skeksis268

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    +1
     
  12. AudioGeekZine

    AudioGeekZine arsehole know-it-all

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    This is actually my #1 complaint.
     
  13. AdamWathan

    AdamWathan Member

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    Hey man, thanks for the kind words :)

    I haven't heard any rumors at all about elastic audio in Reaper... I am personally perfectly happy with the workflow as it is though. Don't need any "warp views" or markers or anything in addition to what's there IMO. I don't like things being "behind the scenes", I like to see exactly what's happening with my audio which is why I prefer to split and stretch. That's one of the big reasons I hate Logic, haha ;)
     
  14. acappa

    acappa Alex Cappa TMF Studios

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    THIS POST IS EPIC :headbang:

    Adam you´re THE MAN!!! Seriously!:kickass:
     
  15. Uros

    Uros Sonic Incision

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    Also raising a hand for the unified package installer \m/
     
  16. Morgan C

    Morgan C MAX LOUD PRESETS¯\(°_o)/¯

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    Agreed, this is pretty fucking awesome.

    Sonar decided to give me the finger in regards to drum editing a couple weeks ago just as I got a couple of projects in. So I tried Reaper again - I'd tried it before but without a Beat Detective (or in Sonar, AudioSnap) alternative, it just wasn't fast enough) - and it's amazing. SO much better than Sonar. Reaper just deals with resources amazingly.

    A 1 minute long segment of drums in Sonar would absolutely lock my system up, and I'd be praying all the time that I hadn't gotten a bit overconfident and bitten off more than my system could chew, and that I'd have to completely restart that segment (I'd only find this out on bouncing...). I also couldn't listen in real-time when things were crossfaded, even moving things around after crossfades locked my system up for 15 seconds. I was seriously contemplating getting a new system just for this, or at least some more RAM.

    Enter Reaper!
    Zero lag. Literally, even when everything is crossfaded and I'm editing 2 minute segments at a time (I still like editing in segments), there is zero lag. Grouping is a godsend. And of course Adam's work is incredible. Atm I find the best method is to put a Trigger instance on the kick and snare (if we're editing together), bounce that out and split to that, then quantize. I then do the toms and fills by hand. I found that, even using Trigger, the automatic splitting and quantizing of the Toms would screw up more than not, and I'd end up redoing them anyway. I'm getting a complex song done in about 1.5 hours now, down from 2-3 in Sonar. Oh and bouncing takes 30 seconds not 5 minutes.

    Tempo maps are weird though, I haven't figured them out - I either import them, or have separate project files for every tempo change >.>


    Surprisingly, Reaper handles mixing quite badly, in terms of resources. I tried mixing a project in Reaper and it was slooooooooooow, constant dropouts (or in Reaper, certain instruments drop out, instead of just stopping). Sonar was much faster. Odd. I also have a few issues with Reaper's lack of features. Most features are there, or have alternatives, but some (for example, in Sonar you press 'F' and all the tracks arrange themselves so that they have the biggest vertical height they can while fitting within the screen, super handy. Reaper has nothing like this).
     
  17. AdamWathan

    AdamWathan Member

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    To speed things up I've literally just started putting Trigger on the drum bus itself, and setting the sensitivity to like 8 or 9, retrigger to like 50ms and detail accordingly so it only catches the right hits. It's nice because then if there's a kick and snare flam, you still only get one hit in the printed trigger track, just works better in my opinion.

    The other trick is to use a trigger sound that has a relatively low frequency attack. I'm using a faded out sine wave at like 60hz-ish now and trigger aligns it much better with my actual drum tracks than when using something with a higher frequency attack.

    I loooooove AutoPocket :D it's so fast in Reaper once you disable auto crossfades and stuff to allow you to just drag stuff wherever you want without ever worrying about it screwing up the nearby chunks of audio. Stuff can overlap like crazy and it makes no difference because AutoPocket cleans it all up brilliantly, soooo much less finnicky to use than Beat Detective and tons faster.

    I just wish Cockos would improve the dynamic split support to make that part easier and faster, go vote here...

    http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=2989
     
  18. jhrv

    jhrv Member

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    One more vote from me.
     
  19. colonel_claypoo

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    another one!

    thanks for the workflow update!
     
  20. colonel_claypoo

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    adam, in your videos, when i see you selecting grouped tracks you just right click marquee one track and all the tracks in your group get selected. how does this work? i always have to drag across the entire tracks or else only those i drag over will be selected. i hope you know what i mean.

    thanks
     

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