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Ayn Rand

Discussion in 'Spiral Architect' started by Manu SwordMaster, Dec 5, 2005.

  1. Manu SwordMaster

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    So... I now found two refences to her Books in ASU Lyrics...
    So I wonder, if anyone read her, and if you agree with her ideology, etc.

    I read Atlas Shrugged and The Virtue of Selfishness... I agree pretty much with her ideas, even if they are a little extreme.
     
  2. Widderslainte

    Widderslainte New Metal Member

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    I think almost everything on a sceptic's universe is Ayn Rand related.

    Anyway, she brought me to the realization of what is so great about capitalism. Before reading Atlas Shrugged I deffinitely didn't understand. But over all I likedd the Fountainhead more as a book.

    Philosophically she makes some real good points, but it seems like she makes an effort not to dig too deep. Being a philosophy major myself, I don't see how there could possibly be objective morals, only more beneficial ones. ESPECIALLY in an atheist world. It's easy for christians, or anyone who believes in an ultimate creator really, that ultimate deity proclaims the morals and therefore they are right. But, believing in an atheist world, I don't see how morals could be absolutely objective, or a purpose.

    I more feel that the system of capitalism has the best ability to support the progress of those things I hold most important: Science, Art and technology. I think that especially combined with most of Ayn Rand's morals this is especially benneficial to those things and is one of the main reasons why her philosophy so appeals to me.

    However I feel her philosophy of aesthetics is pretty mediocre. As much as I want to deny it, religion has been one of the biggest, most beneficial and important influences on art throughout history. even if I do think religion is self deception.
     
  3. Manu SwordMaster

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    I should read Fountainhead...
    And about art... I only know she hated modern art... So do I, but I must read to see what she really thinks..
     
  4. Widderslainte

    Widderslainte New Metal Member

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    I imagine if you studied or had a better understanding of modern art youmay have more of an appreciation for it.
    However, me being a music major, I have a problem with a lot she says about the style that music should be. She talks about how it should have a clear melody and be grand expressing the heroic man et cetera (how she thinks all aesthetics should be treated). However, while a melody can be quite grand, I think there's truly something to be said about developing atmosphere and mood. It is not easy to do that either. For example I love creepy music, like Devil Doll or Fantomas' Delirium Cordia or anything by Akira Yamaoka. I also love 20th century serialism and avant guard styles, I feel like they really reach something incredibly powerful.

    I just get the feeling that she didn't have a deep understanding of aesthetics, which is fine. She knows a lot about other areas.
    Except architecture, I'd love to see what one of Howard's buildings would look like in real life.
     
  5. Pseudo Kamasutra

    Pseudo Kamasutra New Metal Member

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    I would also like to see one of Mr. Roark’s buildings. Better yet one of Spiral Architect's buildings? Is the architect a reference to the Fountainhead and Spiral a reference to the golden mean? If so does Spiral Architect incorporate the Golden Ratio into their songs? Or is it to pretend like they do, so they can be cool like the way Tool claims to incorporate the Fibonacci sequence in their songs to brainwash occult enthusiasts into loving a beautiful man like Maynard? I wonder?
     
  6. SupersonicRobotic

    SupersonicRobotic running with the hunted

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    hahah wow, so youre not willing to take a whole look at the picture either along with Ayn Rand? progress, technology and art have been phony from their origins. theyre both dependent on division of labor, complete mediation in a world of symbols (time, etc... all pumping you in the butt for capital and production.) and dividing up the world into a distant relationship of culture vs. nature. what a complete phony ideology that doesnt even look at autonomous foraging/non-agricultural peoples that lived outside of many of these constructs until they were slaughtered or assimilated in the name of "progress." in fact, that makes the whole ideology of progress inherently genocidal of another economy. thats just fine though cause its for capital and ayn rand's lame vision.

    what the hell is positive about that other than you masturbating on messageboards and buying dumb metal records while paying bills? can we please have more?
     
  7. Widderslainte

    Widderslainte New Metal Member

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    You make an excellent point. Absolutely nothing is authentic. There is no predetermined point to the universe, no why. All ideas created by humans are inherently inauthentic and artificial, merely conventions, without exception. Self, economy, progress, art all of them conventions created by humans.

    But, that's all we've got. So what makes one convention better than another? Nothing. All we know is we like some more than others.

    I like the convention of art (this includes music, literature, painting, drawing, theater et cetera). It makes me feel emotions, it works my brain, it makes me happy (all of which are mere conventions!). Progress is kind of a vague word that I think needs defining with what it exists in relation to. In the case of art, I feel that progress is essentially as simple as coming up with interesting ideas. You can learn from past art and use that to inspire you to create other interesting art.

    I like Science. Humans are Informavores, over all it is pretty damn satisfying to work your brain and learn stuff, even if it has nothing to do with anything. Learning about the physics of stars and black holes gets me excited, and when I gain more knowledge I feel better. Progress in Science is making new discoveries and building on the ideas we understand today, through scientific method, impirical knowledge and inductive reasoning.

    Technology is just kind of a manifestation of science. It's just plain neat (at least that's how I feel about it). I mean just look at us communicating on the web (which is a pretty exciting idea for any informavore)! Not to mention how much technology has added an entire new potential to art. Also it has made further scientific discoveries possible.

    So when I say progress, this is specifically what I mean. Those are the reasons why I feel those specific conventions are worthwhile. Again, it's useless arguing what is phony, because everything you think is phony, and so is everything I think. You can only really argue what seems more worthwhile.

    Anyway, I also feel that capitalism sufficiently supports these three ideas. However there are plenty of other things that I think are worthwhile that are certainly far beyond the reach of capitalism. Capitalism is in no way the be all and end all. Really nothing is.

    Or is this all about who insults who first? I hope it's not.

    Anyway, you're great at tearing down capitalism, do you propose any ideas that you think are worthwhile?
     
  8. Widderslainte

    Widderslainte New Metal Member

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    I think, Spiral Architect is just a fantastic band name and that's why they chose it. Though the architect could certainly be a refference to roark, but I think the real refference is to Black Sabbath's song.
     
  9. Dark Lord

    Dark Lord Reincarnation of Yourself

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    well actually that is not true.... according to Lars Norberg, the coining of the name "Spiral Architect' had nothing to do with the fact that there is a song called "Spiral Architect" by Black Sabbath... believe it or not, Lars told me that he had NO idea (neither did any of his bandmates) that there was a Black Sabbath song called "Spiral Architect"... if you don't believe me, check out the thread "Steinar Gundersen's Guitars" posts #48 & #50.
     
  10. nicosanchez

    nicosanchez Crazy Tech Prog Member

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    Actually, he says that Black Sabbath is one of his favourite bands, he never says that they didn't knew that there was a song with that name. What he says is that the name didn't came from that song. Perhaps you misunderstood the answer.
     
  11. Dark Lord

    Dark Lord Reincarnation of Yourself

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    Helllllloooo !!!! are you blind ?? didn't you read what Lars wrote??

    that means he had NO IDEA that there was a Black Sabbath song called "Spiral Architect".
    Am i right or am i not right??? duhhhh !!!
     
  12. Asgeir Mickelson

    Asgeir Mickelson Alpha male

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    Dark Lord - what does "not oblivious" mean in Beirut?

    - Asgeir
     
  13. nicosanchez

    nicosanchez Crazy Tech Prog Member

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    Probably in Beirut, but for the rest of the world, that doesn't mean that.

    Damn, if smartasses had wings, we would never see the sun.....
     
  14. Pseudo Kamasutra

    Pseudo Kamasutra New Metal Member

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    I don’t’ think that they would blatantly use that name because it is a Black Sabbath song. Maybe if it were about the song they would have made it a different name that had some reference to the song. Which brings me to my next point that when you open the liner notes and read the titles of the songs somehow the number 1.61803… is implanted in our brains? Which is my contention that they claim to be the architects of the Golden Mean? They are the gods of human existence which attracts the technical metal heads because of their far superior talents in their music? That means that there complex music as described as controlled anarchy which it is more of a minarchy. That is what Ayn Rand was, a minarchest who believes in some sort of controlled government. They are man worshipers of Ayn Rand which makes their fans Man Worshipers of them. So it leads me to believe that the name Spiral Architect is a name based on numbers rather than letters? Some sort of ELS (equidistant letter sequences) system as used for the bible code or some code that relates to there superlative god AYN RAND?
     
  15. Dark Lord

    Dark Lord Reincarnation of Yourself

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    oops!!! i did not see the "Not" in not oblivious !! i thought it was: "we were oblivious..."... my mistake!! :D ....sorry about that :)

    ... and just so you know mr. sanchez, you probably won't ever see the sun, not because of smart-asses with wings... because probably you got the sun stuck up your ass !!! Lebanon may be a 3rd world country... but it's not a barbaric country like you two would think... i suggest you expand your horizons and learn more about the world you live in... unless you believe Norway or Argentina is the best any of you can envision!! guys ... grow up !!! i'm even guessing you guys probably have no idea where Lebanon is!!! yeah, yeah... go look it up in an Atlas book or something!! you make fun of a country that you know nothing about... or even know where it is... shows how mature you are!!! besides mr. sanchez...how dare you mock my English when you can't even write a correct sentence??

    ... great english dude !!! :Smug:

    ....and an extra point to asgeir: "Not Oblivious" means the same thing in Beirut as it does in Oslo or in Buenos Aires :loco: ...so bite me!!! woohoo, a guy can't even make an honest mistake these days without you guys trying to take a bite out of his ass!!! :err: ... don't take it the wrong way guys !!! :)
     
  16. Manu SwordMaster

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    Ermg.. whatever they said, you deserved it for insisting in your failed point...
    Go Argentina BTW...
    On to the topic...

    Asgeir... are you or any bandmembers objectivist or something??
     
  17. Widderslainte

    Widderslainte New Metal Member

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    Eh I guess you're right I probably should have assumed that they came up with the idea somewhat independantly of the song. Still an awsome name with so many possibilities of meaning.
     
  18. nicosanchez

    nicosanchez Crazy Tech Prog Member

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    I never meant (past tense) to offend you or make fun of your country. By the way, "knew" is a past tense for "know", and "came" is a past tense to "come". I say "a past tense" because I can't remember which of them is it.

    So I got the sun stucked up my ass? daaaaamn, I thought (past tense) it was roids, but now I know why!!!!! Thank you!!!!

    Let's end this nonsense discussion, I honestly don't want to discuss something with a guy who's answer to being pointed a mistake is "bite me" (once is an honest mistake, now ¿twice?...........)
     
  19. Dark Lord

    Dark Lord Reincarnation of Yourself

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    I know i made the mistake... and i humbly appologized for that honest mistake, but you (unintenionally) offended a part of my culture... so my comeback was only a reaction to your action... i truely understand that you meant nothing by that... and i appologize if my reply was a little harsh :) In the end, all this doesn't matter... what matters is that in the end, Spiral Architect RULES !!! :headbang: ...and we are the loyal fans :worship: !!!
     
  20. Asgeir Mickelson

    Asgeir Mickelson Alpha male

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    Dark Lord - most of the world's got your neighbour country on the news every week so we're NOT OBLIVIOUS (pun intended, hehe) to "your area".

    Manu - I'm an atheist. Not totally sure but think the other guys are too. I don't believe in old fairy tales.

    - Asgeir
     

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