This site is supported by the advertisements on it, please disable your AdBlocker so we can continue to provide you with the quality content you expect.

I Want You!

Join Symphony X and discover tons of other great Metal forums, sign up today!

Bands that have sold out?

Discussion in 'Symphony X (Unofficial)' started by mark b, Mar 20, 2008.

  1. Yngvai X

    Yngvai X Dark Emperor

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2002
    Messages:
    3,468
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Woodland Park, NJ
    I'm sorry, this is just stupid. Like it or not, growled/harsh vocals have been a legitimate part of the metal genre since the 80s. Its like saying a band has no integrity because the drummer uses blastbeats and blastbeats are "trendy" or something to that effect.
     
  2. OfSinsAndShred

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2003
    Messages:
    2,957
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA, USA
    I'm with Matt. First of all, growling has been in metal for a LONG time. Also, Bodom's been around since the 90s, and the singing style has been pretty much the same the whole time.
     
  3. razoredge

    razoredge Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2007
    Messages:
    5,895
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    36
    not stupid, but an honest opinion, note that I said "in my book is a total sellout to musical integrity" While I'll grant you harsh vocals were part of one style of metal in the 80's, it was far from the extreme of today, which IS a trend as well as seeming to be a prerequisite. Any trend or meeting of a prerequisite could be viewed as a sell out by the same standards of all the mapped out structures of a pop song. Im in total agreement with your edit at the bottom of your first post made today, it was in agreement to what I was trying to express. I dont want to turn this into a debate about how I feel about some of the vocal styles, thats carved in stone and cost me the ability to listen to some other wise great music, so see it as my loss. I probably could have found other examples... your blast beat example was a good one. They do get kind of dry after awhile and at times seem to be done for purposes other than musical integrity. I just dont jump on the crying sellout train so I provided other examples that can be viewed as being done for the purposes of "selling".
     
  4. razoredge

    razoredge Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2007
    Messages:
    5,895
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    36
    What do you mean, are you serious ? hard to tell. If so, Im not sure what a break down is and am wondering whats going on. If you have an interesting aspect from inside the industry you can tell without cutting your throat, it would be interesting to hear about.
     
  5. Iced Dog

    Iced Dog The Stormrider's Pooch

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2003
    Messages:
    3,107
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Grand Rapids, MI
    Well said, those are good points :) Using Metallica as an example, people bash on this talented group relentlessly as being sellouts. But it always struck me more like they just didn't want to repeat the same style over and over, which I respect. Now I didn't care for St. Anger, like many, but that doesn't mean I think they're worthless now because of it, nor does it lessen the quality of previous efforts. Crap, I didn't mean to steer this into a Metallica debate...uh oh *hides*
     
  6. razoredge

    razoredge Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2007
    Messages:
    5,895
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Im not much on their later stuff either but the "sell out" cry went out with the Black album and I liked that alot, some of it got over played but oh well, it was a great piece of work

    at that same time Megadeth got the "sell out" cry for Countdown, so did Queensryche for Empire, Savatage for Edge of Thorns and Fates Warning for Perfect Symetry. All of these recordings I liked alot and only see them as musicians that had grown up.

    Around this time was when I got a bitter taste in my mouth for the cry "sell out"
     
  7. ElvenShadow

    ElvenShadow Guilty Gear

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2002
    Messages:
    338
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Japan
    lol growling is selling out? i guess every death and black metal band sold out from day one. wtflol
     
  8. OfSinsAndShred

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2003
    Messages:
    2,957
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA, USA
    Evolution is one thing, but with the left turn those guys made, it's hard to deny. If you've honestly listened to the first 3 (or 4, depending on who you are), and then Black album, Load, and Reload... *shudder*. It's PAINFULLY obvious, dude.
     
  9. CantoX

    CantoX Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2006
    Messages:
    901
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Kuwait
    In my opinion Metallica sold out at St. Anger.

    Black still has Metallica all over it.. Load and reLoad are just a new direction. There are more songs about feelings on those albums.

    But none can deny St. Anger as sell out.
     
  10. Iced Dog

    Iced Dog The Stormrider's Pooch

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2003
    Messages:
    3,107
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Grand Rapids, MI
    or an emotional catharsis gone horribly wrong in musical form
     
  11. Kenneth R.

    Kenneth R. Cináed

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2004
    Messages:
    17,892
    Likes Received:
    37
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Hallways of Always
    If the beatles sold out, I don't care. They still kicked ass.
     
  12. progmetaldan

    progmetaldan Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2006
    Messages:
    5,894
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    South Australia
    this thread is gonna get ugly, pretty much everybody who doesn't like an album that a band put out after an album that they did like, is gonna say the band sold out... I think something like Metallica is really obvious, but slight shifts in direction can't be considered selling out. Selling out is when a band completely loses their musical integrity for the purpose of a big financial deal. Changing their mind about what style they want to play just happens as people grow opinions change, so will their music, and some people will think the earlier stuff is better and others the later stuff.
     
  13. schenkadere

    schenkadere Obey my dog!

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2005
    Messages:
    4,428
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    NY
    I would have considered Parallels to be Fates Warnings "sell out"...but I don't care I love that album...can't stand anything else by them.

    "Sell out" would have to reflect in record sales, otherwise it's really meaningless.
     
  14. CantoX

    CantoX Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2006
    Messages:
    901
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Kuwait
    Yeah.. you're right.

    We have to remember that these bands are playing to get money. In the end they still have to make money.. so it's hard to determine if a band has sold out.

    Yeah but beetles sold out for sure. No questions asked there.:loco:
     
  15. ramses

    ramses Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2004
    Messages:
    1,103
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Yeah schenkadere, Fates Warning changed to a more streamlined sound on Parallels, almost a Queensryche- Empire-like feel in places on that album. When Arch was the singer, they were more Maiden-esque. When Alder joined, they got very Rush-ish. I like both era's, but the one that pissed me off was the one after Parallels: the Inside Out album. Just really a soft rock kind of album.:puke:
     
  16. razoredge

    razoredge Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2007
    Messages:
    5,895
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Fates sound changed with Perfect Symetry which is very similiar to Parallels, less timing issues. Fates is primarily from the mind of Matheos so Alder had little to do with the musical change really. However Jim wanted to express himself is what we got, I've been cool with all of it. A style and sound of their own from anything else Ive ever heard, thats something I can really appreaciate. Still they got the sell out cry when Matheos stepped away from metal a bit and let the music breath, but it was'nt aimed at FM radio play.
     
  17. schenkadere

    schenkadere Obey my dog!

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2005
    Messages:
    4,428
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    NY
    Huge sell out!!!

    Ron "Bumblefoot" Thal playing guitar for Guns n Roses.

    This guy has sick skills playing that silly Slash stuff.

    Oh well, everyone's got to make a buck and it's hard to do just being an oddball guitar hero...much like Buckethead.

    I'm sure he's got a family to feed.
     
  18. razoredge

    razoredge Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2007
    Messages:
    5,895
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Not a hardcore GnR fan, was fun for a bit, but dont you think Slash had tasteful guitar work ? I know you are talking comparitively... but using the word silly was just comparitively right ? Just wondering thats all.
     
  19. ToastedOveries

    ToastedOveries Stranger in the night

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2007
    Messages:
    81
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    Bath, UK
    i find him pretty boring really, tastefull? yeah he is pretty tastefull, but tastefull means different things to different people, espeically between non-guitarists and guitarists
     
  20. schenkadere

    schenkadere Obey my dog!

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2005
    Messages:
    4,428
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    NY
    He's got a few things I've heard that I like, but overall he bores me. I'd never seek out his work...I also don't really dig his bands.
     

Share This Page