This site is supported by the advertisements on it, please disable your AdBlocker so we can continue to provide you with the quality content you expect.

Welcome to Our Community

Wanting to join the rest of our members? Feel free to sign up today.

Bugera made a Mesa clone!

Discussion in 'Backline' started by ahjteam, May 3, 2010.

  1. ahjteam

    ahjteam Anssi Tenhunen

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2008
    Messages:
    9,396
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Virrat/Helsinki, Finland
  2. El_Gato

    El_Gato I love this gain

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2007
    Messages:
    1,349
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Spain
    varipower, a very interesting feature. Hope we hear some tones soon.
     
  3. Wolfeman

    Wolfeman I Prefer EL-34s. So What?

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2006
    Messages:
    4,376
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Cleveland
    Hmm they are treading on dangerous ground there, I wonder how they are getting around Randall Smith's 7000 patents. He won't be happy at all.
     
  4. PhilTheBeard

    PhilTheBeard "The Beard"

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2009
    Messages:
    2,703
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Cape Coral, Florida
    I'm still not a Bugera fan at all. Everyone of my friends who have bought one of there amps it has busted on them on tour's. i guess my area just always get's the bad batch of these amp's haha
     
  5. Harry Hughes

    Harry Hughes   ‬‬

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2009
    Messages:
    4,357
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Uhh, this is old news dude :lol:
     
  6. Harry Hughes

    Harry Hughes   ‬‬

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2009
    Messages:
    4,357
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    The pre 2009 Bugeras are noted for their poor reliability. I don't recall the exact reason why off the top of my head, but it's been fixed since 2009.
    I got my 333XL head in March and couldn't be happier.
    It fucking SLAYS, not just for the price, but period.
     
  7. Kazrog

    Kazrog Space Meat!

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2002
    Messages:
    5,525
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    California
    I agree, the patent lawsuit must be imminent. Of course, Behringer loves to infringe on patents as their core business model.

    I would laugh, but Mesa/Boogie is a stand-up company that never sold out. They deserve every bit of success they've had in this business. Seriously if it hasn't been said before, fuck Behringer!!

    UPDATE: I've written Mesa/Boogie to notify them about this, just in case they haven't noticed. This bullshit has to stop.
     
  8. lolzgreg

    lolzgreg Cereal Shipping Sneapster

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2008
    Messages:
    4,284
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Long Beach, New York
    I'm sure Boogie's lawyers are already spitting on Behringer's lawn.
     
  9. Mikko Vainiala

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2008
    Messages:
    180
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Dude, you believe those patents? Do you know what's even claimed with them? And how many of them have been common knowledge and in earlier publications (like Radio Designer's Handbook)...following that logic every other guitar amplifier would be denied. So, cheek in tongue, example: Luckily preamps are not patentable, maybe they'd sue Mike Soldano himself who's circuit they and everyone else ripped. :heh:
     
  10. Wolfeman

    Wolfeman I Prefer EL-34s. So What?

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2006
    Messages:
    4,376
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Cleveland
    Yeah, Randall Smith is the king of bullshit patents. I actually have a whole book filled just with his bogus patents. Kinda crazy that he went that far. For everyone that doesn't know, he would take something simple like a switch that adds a resistor somewhere, and patent it. Stuff that's been done a million times before.

    And he protects them with an iron fist, so I'm interested to see what he does about the Bugeras, Since I highly doubt they came up with there own ways to implement Mesa features...
     
  11. Trevoire520

    Trevoire520 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2007
    Messages:
    5,036
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Fife, Scotland
    To be honest I'm unsure if Mesa will be too bothered. Behringer are at a completely different end of the market to them and realistically the guys who are going to splash out £1500+ on a Mesa are unlikely to go for a cheaper and likely inferior copy.

    Personally I'd love for Mesa to release a simplified version of a rectifier for the low end market. Hell it could even be a mini amp like the Rev Jr/Tiny Terror. I'm sure that if the price was right alot of people would jump on it instantly and not look twice at the Bugera copy.
     
  12. slashvanyoung

    slashvanyoung Dopefish lives!

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2006
    Messages:
    4,457
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Germany
    Well, Yerasov have been producing and selling a Dual Recto clone for several years now:

    [​IMG]
     
  13. ahjteam

    ahjteam Anssi Tenhunen

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2008
    Messages:
    9,396
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Virrat/Helsinki, Finland
    You mean like this or this or this?
     
  14. Kazrog

    Kazrog Space Meat!

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2002
    Messages:
    5,525
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    California
    To be fair, I haven't looked at them. I figured (based on intuition) that the patents had to do with very specific features like the implementation of graphic EQ and the switchable power section in the Mark Series.

    Seems like the patents are taking a beating in this thread, I'll have to take a look. Easy enough to find them:

    http://www.google.com/patents?q=randall+c+smith&btnG=Search+Patents

    Anyway, I recognize the fact that patent "trolls" exist, but I have always respected Mesa/Boogie enough that I never questioned their legitimacy and innovation.
     
  15. ahjteam

    ahjteam Anssi Tenhunen

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2008
    Messages:
    9,396
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Virrat/Helsinki, Finland
    but yeah, ~950€ for the Bugera Trirec. Pretty affordable compared to the mesa prices here (2400€)
     
  16. Kadmium

    Kadmium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2006
    Messages:
    294
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    I asked the local official Bugera repair tech (also the official tech for almost every other amp and effects company in the state) about their reliability and he said that the earlier models had power transformers way too close to the boards, so some bits would literally melt. Their fix was to heat-insulate the area (post-2007 models, apprently, already have this fixed), and after that, he said they're about as reliable as any other tube amp.
     
  17. atoni

    atoni Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2007
    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    Finland
    I'll get one for a spare and just fun of it
     
  18. Wolfeman

    Wolfeman I Prefer EL-34s. So What?

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2006
    Messages:
    4,376
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Cleveland
    I think I'll grab one too, I swore to never buy anything Mesa, but I'd still love to own a Recto... Guess this is the way, or build my own.
     
  19. TheWinterSnow

    TheWinterSnow Den Mørke Natt

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2008
    Messages:
    3,090
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Sacramento, CA
    Randall is the master at eliminating free market competition by patenting improvements or circuits to switch between two of the same circuits (for example to with between a silicon rectifier or a vacuum tube rectifier) Almost half of his patents revolve around "improving" someone else's' design (he has even wrote that in the patents). Taking two circuits that was someone else idea and putting them in the same device is not a patent. And almost every patent of his is something a 1st year electronics student could think of simply reading a fundamentals of analog circuits book.

    I think that he is a coward who is afraid of having a fair free market competition, every single one of his patents does not fit the mold for a patentable material (must not be an improvement of someone else's design, patented or not, and MUST NOT BE AN OBVIOUS DESIGN). Because of this he is able to comfortably choose how expensive he wants to have his amps because no one else can compete with him, he has monopolized the system to prevent competition (which is ILLEGAL in the US, just ask Bill Gates), which explains the ridiculous prices of their amps. I am pretty sure if there were not patents he would be blown out of the water by EE's who could take what he patented and make it better AND cheaper.

    Just a list of somethings he calls a patent

    -Switchable rectifiers (silicon or valve)
    -Switchable clean boost between the preamp and poweramp
    -Simultaneous use of a different class amplifiers (class A blended with class AB)
    -Digital Potentiometer for Audio use (a digital potentiometer has been around forever, he just patented the use of one in ALL audio applications)
    -Mains Voltage reduction aka variac (manufacturer of transformers have put multiple taps on primaries to switch from US to EU voltages, he was the first to patent the use of the central taps to be 70.7% of the designed mains voltage (it was actually done before him many times before, he was just the first to patent it, which means SOMEONE ELSE ALREADY DID THAT AND HE STILL PATENTED IT)
    -Switchable amplifier (from single ended to push-pull)
    -Poweramp power reduction (the ability to turn off pairs of tubes to get half power, or turn off three tubes to have one tube in class A to get quarter power)
    -Footswitchable volume boost
    -Adjustable Parallel FX loop (he was the FIRST to patent the use of an FX loop that had a blend knob between wet and dry (those designs have been in FX units for years prior, he was just the first to put it in an FX loop of an amp))

    Like I said every single one of those is something you could easily think up of by simply reading a basic electronics theory book, and considering that most of his designs are "improvements" of someone else design, I have no respect for the man, IMO he is a coward afraid of fair competition. How the US patent office granted all of them is beyond me, apparently they can't follow their own rules/guidelines for what is a patent.

    watch it, US patents protect the patent holder from people even building their patents, he could sue you just for building a dual recto for your own personal use.
     
  20. Wolfeman

    Wolfeman I Prefer EL-34s. So What?

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2006
    Messages:
    4,376
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Cleveland
    True. And he probably would too. I actually had to ditch an idea for my Hellfire since I later found out it was close to something done by him. Didn't even want to deal with it so I just nixed the idea all together.
     

Share This Page