This site is supported by the advertisements on it, please disable your AdBlocker so we can continue to provide you with the quality content you expect.

Welcome to Our Community

Wanting to join the rest of our members? Feel free to sign up today.

Can Humans Live in Peace?

Discussion in 'The Philosopher' started by Norsemaiden, Jul 3, 2007.

  1. Norsemaiden

    Norsemaiden barbarian

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    1,903
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Britain
    Must every period of peace in a society precede many more years of war?

    History would suggest so.

    Are humans unable to cope with long-term peace? Do the men get restless and does society start to turn in on itself when there is no direct armed conflict for a long time? Could that be happening in the West?
     
  2. Seditious

    Seditious GodSlayer

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2005
    Messages:
    2,333
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    New Zealand
    no, they can't. the closest thing to peace we'll get is some technocracy one world government where oppression is sufficiently maintained and without foreign threat to disrupt that "peace".
     
  3. MetalBooger

    MetalBooger Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2006
    Messages:
    184
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    im guessing in heaven, but not on earth. The world is too complex and variable to allow for total cooperation among the billions of people.
     
  4. Blowtus

    Blowtus Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2006
    Messages:
    906
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Straya
    Can you state what you mean by 'peace'?
     
  5. S<issors

    S<issors wins.

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2007
    Messages:
    1,809
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Ironically, two of the periods where Western civilization was most convinced that it had "learned its lesson" and would abandon war as a form of conflict resolution were immediately followed by two of largest wars in history (WWI and WWII).
     
  6. infoterror

    infoterror Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2005
    Messages:
    1,191
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    38
    All you hippies better start to face reality,
    All your far fetched dreams of anarchy,
    Better start to see things the way they are,
    Cause the way things
    Are going they won't be goin' far.

    World peace can't be done.
    It just can't exist.
    World peace can't be done.
    Anarchy's a mess.
     
  7. Norsemaiden

    Norsemaiden barbarian

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    1,903
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Britain
    The absence of armed conflict by one group against another.

    I would say that territorial instincts are the main cause of such conflict. If everyone feels their territorial needs are secure then there should be peace. So a tribe that feels itself to be isolated should have peace, as long as there is also a feeling within the tribe that they are not being oppressed by anyone powerful.
     
  8. Norsemaiden

    Norsemaiden barbarian

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    1,903
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Britain
    Could it not be said that Iceland has had a thousand years of "peace"?
     
  9. Seditious

    Seditious GodSlayer

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2005
    Messages:
    2,333
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    New Zealand
    If Stalin, or Alexander the Great had laser weapons and nuclear devices, maybe force fields too, perhaps they could have destroyed, or through that superiority discouraged, all those who would potentially provide an armed conflict with their group.

    if peace is just unstoppable tyranny, I don't care for it.
     
  10. Seditious

    Seditious GodSlayer

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2005
    Messages:
    2,333
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    New Zealand
    every remote swamp or deadly volcano has probably had thousands of years of peace too... but if science discovered it was the fountain of youth, in other words, if suddenly it was valuable to all who are potential threats to that peace, I doubt that 'peace' would last much longer. I doubt that 'peace' means much, as indeed many households and coworkers live in peace also, but I think it is quite besides the point whether Einstein's fantasy island of "those who are wise and of good will" could live in peace---even Muslim fundamentalist terrorists live in peace amongst each other in their villain hideouts---the issue of peace isn't about the like-minded coexisting, but of the diverse.
     
  11. Norsemaiden

    Norsemaiden barbarian

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    1,903
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Britain
    Why? Is that because peace only counts when it is peace in the face of extreme provocation? Like how the New Testament suggests that generosity only counts when you are generous to those who wish you harm?
     
  12. Seditious

    Seditious GodSlayer

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2005
    Messages:
    2,333
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    New Zealand
    all I'm saying is that you achieve nothing to talk of such examples. I mean, are we to try to emulate the swamp---become so worthless that no one will want to war with our territory? A slave and slave master can live in peace if only the slave is willing to just play along and be nice to his master, but what the fuck idea of peace is this? If an idea of peace isn't applicable to the way of life we would like to see able to exist in peace, if instead it is only through the non-existence of what we want to enjoy in peace that we can have peace itself, aren't we really losing that which is what we actually want? Hell, we could end this whole fundamentalist Islamic terrorism thing right now, just submit yourself and your governments to adherence with Islamic law. Sheep can easily live in peace, it's only in a world where some animals will oppose others that we wont have peace, and unless desiring to be the other instead of oneself, or to force others to conform, we shouldn't even want peace.
     
  13. Blowtus

    Blowtus Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2006
    Messages:
    906
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Straya
    So whether or not 'peace' is in effect at any given point in time is dependent purely on the way you group humans together. Group everyone on Earth as 'one' and you can say that we have always been at peace, no armed conflict with other planets has occurred. Group us as family units or individuals and worldwide peace would be a fairly ridiculous notion.
     
  14. GoldenDrumer456

    GoldenDrumer456 TheCatholicMetalhead

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2007
    Messages:
    52
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    peace will never be obtained unless we swallow our pride and say tht america has made some dumbass choices
     
  15. Justin S.

    Justin S. Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2004
    Messages:
    1,007
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
  16. Norsemaiden

    Norsemaiden barbarian

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    1,903
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Britain
    No. The "group" in this case is not any set group, it could be a nation fighting a nation, or it could be a family fighting a family or it could be a few people within a family fighting others of their family with weapons in a war-like manner They become groups that are participating in armed conflict at the point that they take up arms and conflict with eachother and not before. So it has nothing to do with any initial "grouping" of people that you or I might do.

    I don't know if there have been any armed race riots yet in Iceland for example, but if there were then that could count as an end to the long period of "peace" in their country by the definiton given.

    Iceland hasn't even had an army since 1869, remarkably.
     
  17. Norsemaiden

    Norsemaiden barbarian

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    1,903
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Britain
    Julius Caesar would have wanted "peace". He would (were he in a position to do so in the present day) use nuclear weapons to obliterate the Islamic countries and generally wipe them from the Earth.

    This is not something I advocate, but it is an interesting thought. The Israeli lobby would like it.

    Anyway the greatest hope of peace is where there is a homogenous people that are not being threatened by a competing group of people. It is hard for us now to imagine that people really could be so nice to each other, not for monetary reasons, not for any sneaky reasons, not because the law forces them to, but just because they actually feel no particular animosity towards each other. It is getting to the point, in this mixed up world, where people can't believe this could ever have been possible, or ever will be.
     
  18. Blowtus

    Blowtus Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2006
    Messages:
    906
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Straya
    But an armed murder can still fit within your definition of peace?

    I'm pushing the point basically because I don't understand the worth of notions of peace, unless they are applied at an individual level. I don't see that it matters if two countries are at war or not, if their citizens are fighting amongst themselves anyway.

    To actually answer the question, yes, I think humans can live 'in peace' but I believe the likelyhood of all humans living in peace for extended periods of time to be very slim, and I don't see that that is a problem.
     
  19. felinusz

    felinusz New Metal Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2007
    Messages:
    28
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    No. I believe that human beings are incapable of living in peace without opression. Peace does not refer to a lack of armed/physical conflict alone, I feel that there is more involved besides physical safety.



    Our "civilization" is based on the exploitation of other human beings.

    The "state of nature" that exists between individual countries, countries which are not realistically (or really even formally) bound by the conventions and rules of a "society", this state of interaction operates in the same manner.

    Just look at Iraq. The United States invaded a foreign country arbitrarily, captured that country's leader, and executed him. They now occupy this country. This is some pretty heavy medieval-style shit going down right here if you stop and think about it in these terms.

    Between countries, and between individuals in a "society", the strong exploit the weak, for their own benefit.


    Even within our society (I am Canadian), there is, in a sense, no peace. Corporations, empowered by the population's desire to consume, can do whatever they want to us, and get away with it. The government can do the same.

    Some would say we live in a society of peace, because we can consume, exploit, and live (or die), in an environment of safety, where we do not need to fear for our safety or wellbeing. While physically this may be the case, economically it is not.

    Even physically it is not completely true.

    Heck, I got into a fairly serious fight on public transit not three weeks ago, and because neither I nor the person I fought chose to press legal charges, nothing happened to either of us (besides fairly severe physical injuries...).

    My girlfriend is harassed on the street daily, by men alone and in groups. She certainly doesn't feel safe from physical harm, not when she is alone in broad daylight.
     
  20. OldScratch

    OldScratch Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2006
    Messages:
    793
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    USA
    Interesting. It seems I am always hearing how "peaceful" and safe Canada is compared to the US. What manner of men harass your girlfriend thus? Is this an urban area?
     

Share This Page