This site is supported by the advertisements on it, please disable your AdBlocker so we can continue to provide you with the quality content you expect.

Welcome to Our Community

Wanting to join the rest of our members? Feel free to sign up today.

Do we have souls or are we complex machines?

Discussion in 'The Philosopher' started by NinjaGeek, Feb 22, 2008.

  1. WeAreTheLastMen

    WeAreTheLastMen Metacom

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2007
    Messages:
    156
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Brookline MA - Heavy Metal Capitol of the metro Bo
    I agree that it's hard to conduct this debate without a definition of the soul, which probably can't be provided. But we can agree that it's nothing physical, but rather something like the core essence of our being, as different from anybody elses.
    A recent NPR show told the story of a man who was deprived of testosterone (for medical reasons) for weeks. All of his ambition left him, and he started staring at walls for long periods of time, never thinking about anything except to acknowledge its existence, and ascribed a single adjective to everything: beautiful. In other words, aspects of his personality he considered fundamental to being HIM, as opposed to someone else, were easily changed with the absence of a hormonal chemical. So we know that the soul, if it exists, would have very limited effect on the way you think logically about things or the way you perceive the world objectively.
    If you believe in some sort of God, then you probably believe that you were created by him, as an individual, and that relationship with God probably constitutes some of what a soul is. '
    If you think God does not exist, I don't see how it would be possible to believe in the soul.
     
  2. waif

    waif Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2007
    Messages:
    18,908
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Montreal
    Indeed. Chemical imbalances, brain damage, etc can change the way people think, act, and perceive. Since those things pretty much constitute who you are, there's really not much for a soul to do.
     
  3. WeAreTheLastMen

    WeAreTheLastMen Metacom

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2007
    Messages:
    156
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Brookline MA - Heavy Metal Capitol of the metro Bo
    Right. Not physically. So the soul is not a tangible thing with a tangible effect on the way we function practically. Anyone who contends that it exists should probably be able to agree with that.
     
  4. Silver Incubus

    Silver Incubus Dead Hands Justin

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    1,731
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    (Near) London, Ontario, Canada
    So what then is contained in the soul that makes it unique to everything else. As far as I'm concerned the soul would be a reference to your Sole personality because that seems to be what people think it is. And like mentioned above brain damage can change the core of who you are. so what is the soul for?
     
  5. waif

    waif Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2007
    Messages:
    18,908
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Montreal
    The soul is an organ located between the bladder and the kidneys. My friend recently contracted cancer of the soul from listening to too much Bloodbath. He had to get a soulonoscopy. He is now a lawyer.
     
  6. WeAreTheLastMen

    WeAreTheLastMen Metacom

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2007
    Messages:
    156
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Brookline MA - Heavy Metal Capitol of the metro Bo
    .... that sounds vaguely familiar...
     
  7. waif

    waif Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2007
    Messages:
    18,908
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Montreal
    A mystery.
     
  8. forbidden fruit

    forbidden fruit ...is always best

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2008
    Messages:
    67
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    You could drive yourself mad trying to nut this one out... you either believe the soul exists, or you don't.
    There's no confirmation, in any form, one way or the other... & no argument will steer another away from their beliefs.

    That said, I gotta say I'm split down the middle... the reason in me says we're the product of genes, dividing/multiplying cells, memories, hormones, chemicals & electricity... the narcissist in me says there's the slightest possibility of many of these attributes aligning in an identical fashion in another. Would that then make that person me, but with different physiological/biological attributes? The genes of course being the spoilers?
    That doesn't seem right either... & does not sit well with me.
    So I figure there is something that makes me "ME"... the word 'soul' has connotations I'd rather not associate myself with, but for want of a better term it'll have to do.
    Could it be that the soul is the sum of pre-existing memories of others since past that have installed themselves into a new lifeform?
    I may be talking out of my ass here, but if energy, & more specifically, lifeforce energy, behaves the same way as matter, in that it merely changes state & cannot be made absent... then the energy released when a lifeform dies could conceivably, amongst other things, find a new vehicle to exist in.
    Not conciously of course, but like air moving to a place of lower pressure... or the way heat, completely mindlessly, needs to disperse its energy to areas cooler than itself...
    I don't know... worth a thought... or maybe not.
    Yes, I am drunk. Goodnight.
     
  9. Undying Daffodil

    Undying Daffodil Wales Kicks Ass =)

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2008
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Location:
    Wales
  10. WeAreTheLastMen

    WeAreTheLastMen Metacom

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2007
    Messages:
    156
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Brookline MA - Heavy Metal Capitol of the metro Bo
    someone close this shit
     
  11. Pyro_Fish

    Pyro_Fish New Metal Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2008
    Messages:
    120
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    i just want to say that the closing the thread idea does not reflect my desires
    just because i myself haven't posted my opinion here doesn't mean that i think it's a crap thread
    i've just been too lazy to actually read this specific thread
    i'll prolly eventually read it all the way through, the little snippits i did read sound philosophical, i'm just really lazy when it comes to reading the longer posts
     
  12. Hallucinations

    Hallucinations Dracula has a moon base..

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2008
    Messages:
    91
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    Belfast, Ireland
    To Threadstarter:

    Your optimism is admirable, and you do a good job of presenting and mantaining your theories

    BUT!

    The idea that a soul exists is utterly naive and irrelevant to the improbable existance of a God, as WeAreInFlames pointed out at the beginning of the thread. You're doing quantum physics? When you're qualified please don't go hunting the Templeton Prize :(

    The cells in your body are constantly being replaced. I'm not sure if the origins of this supposed fact are reliable but it's said that every single cell in your body is replaced every fortnight or so. Some quicker than others obviously.

    And what about the bacterial cells, living in your gut, in symbiotic bliss? Do they have souls?

    Ah, dualists bug me :lol: Everything is one. Now I can die happily

    I think the threadstarter got onto that point at the end of his theory.

    Indeed we do drift apart, be consumed and rot away to fertilze the earth that cared for us while we were alive, so that others may live. It a very selfless process that seems to be a fair trade, and I can gain comfort from the fact that one can never truly be destroyed, as we are beings of intense energy. Your ego is destroyed, your consciousness annulled, yes, but you are just composed of atoms at the end of the day :)
     
  13. Hallucinations

    Hallucinations Dracula has a moon base..

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2008
    Messages:
    91
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    Belfast, Ireland
    a)because it offends you?
    b)because its pointless?
    c)because you have nothing valuable to say?
     
  14. WeAreTheLastMen

    WeAreTheLastMen Metacom

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2007
    Messages:
    156
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Brookline MA - Heavy Metal Capitol of the metro Bo
    because everyone's acknowledged it's going nowhere...
    unless you have something valuable to say?
     
  15. Hallucinations

    Hallucinations Dracula has a moon base..

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2008
    Messages:
    91
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    Belfast, Ireland
    ^ Well in all honesty I don't anymore and I doubt it was valuable in the long run of things :p

    I just thought your comment was overtly vulgar for a "mature discussion" section of the forum

    Though something may come to the forefront at any minute. The Japanese fisherman may have found a russian submarine with a shitload of souls in it. Who knows?
     
  16. JoeVice

    JoeVice Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2003
    Messages:
    2,169
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Murdock, NE
    i call bullshit here. you know nothing about what happens upon death, unless of course you can recall it.:loco:

    atoms are certainly something we have observed and studied under a microscope. and our body is certainly composed of them, seeing as how we have observed this and agreed on it being a fact. but, "i am" just composed of atoms at the end of the day? i dunno, maybe this is my sad and bruised ego wanting to live on, but, i think this attitude is a common and somewhat dull outlook, although it does make substance for a simple, selfless, warm humor. i think an absolute truth is that there is an infinite amount of fascinating science-worthy knowledge yet to be hypothesized and proven that builds us up to be much more than "just composed of atoms.":worship:
     
  17. Blowtus

    Blowtus Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2006
    Messages:
    906
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Straya
    The Mona Lisa is just composed of paint on a canvas, does knowledge like that make it in any way 'less'?
     
  18. JoeVice

    JoeVice Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2003
    Messages:
    2,169
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Murdock, NE
    no, it makes it more than just composed of atoms, just like you!:lol:
     
  19. MetalBooger

    MetalBooger Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2006
    Messages:
    184
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Therein lies the soul?
     
  20. JoeVice

    JoeVice Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2003
    Messages:
    2,169
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Murdock, NE
    yah, why not? hiedegger mentions (i think:erk:)that our thought is too tied up in our pre-conceptions of what is already theorized. i think thats how some concepts, especially kooky ones like "soul" become primitive.

    lets think about vision. look at your computer screen. consider all that science has observed concerning how light is sensed by your retina, and rods and cones, and how it travels through spacetime at light speed, and all that quantum shit.

    but, what is vision? imagine all we know about vision, and through it in a bag. what vision really is is not just the bag and everything inside, but its our observation and conception of the bag and everything inside. in this sense, can a distintion be made that means more than another concerning what vision is?

    1. light is traveling from the computer screen to your eyes, where its turned into an electronic signal and interpreted by your brain.

    2. your "vision field" is like a black hole and the computer screen is actually looking at you.

    etc. etc...there are so many possibilities as to what "order" things are happening in. but vision is just it. its an observation. forget about you, the computer screen, your eyes, light...etc...none of that matters concerning what vision really is. you could say its just all of that, plus every possible concept we could imagine, stuffed in an infinitely expandable bag. but, the "soul" of vision is what we're experiencing right now.

    btw...i'm not sorry that i have derailled the thread. just ignore this post if you want to "get back on topic." but, i am sorry if this made absolutely no sense.
     

Share This Page